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Climate Change - increasingly horrible disasters loom Climate Change - increasingly horrible disasters loom

07-19-2022 , 02:53 PM
Its absolutely clear that WAAF but derps and micro brows gonna derp and contribute to the possible extinction of our species.
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07-25-2022 , 09:45 AM
A CT Lucky can get behind! Or can he?


The audacious PR plot that seeded doubt about climate change

Thirty years ago, a bold plan was cooked up to spread doubt and persuade the public that climate change was not a problem. The little-known meeting - between some of America's biggest industrial players and a PR genius - forged a devastatingly successful strategy that endured for years, and the consequences of which are all around us.

On an early autumn day in 1992, E Bruce Harrison, a man widely acknowledged as the father of environmental PR, stood up in a room full of business leaders and delivered a pitch like no other.

At stake was a contract worth half a million dollars a year - about £850,000 in today's money. The prospective client, the Global Climate Coalition (GCC) - which represented the oil, coal, auto, utilities, steel, and rail industries - was looking for a communications partner to change the narrative on climate change.

Don Rheem and Terry Yosie, two of Harrison's team present that day, are sharing their stories for the first time.

"Everybody wanted to get the Global Climate Coalition account," says Rheem, "and there I was, smack in the middle of it."

The GCC had been conceived only three years earlier, as a forum for members to exchange information and lobby policy makers against action to limit fossil fuel emissions...

...But all that changed in 1992. In June, the international community created a framework for climate action, and November's presidential election brought committed environmentalist Al Gore into the White House as vice-president. It was clear the new administration would try to regulate fossil fuels.

The Coalition recognised that it needed strategic communications help and put out a bid for a public relations contractor.

Though few outside the PR industry might have heard of E Bruce Harrison or the eponymous company he had run since 1973, he had a string of campaigns for some of the US's biggest polluters under his belt.

He had worked for the chemical industry discrediting research on the toxicity of pesticides; for the tobacco industry, and had recently run a campaign against tougher emissions standards for the big car makers. Harrison had built a firm that was considered one of the very best...


Drawing on thousands of newly discovered documents, this three-part film charts how the oil industry mounted a campaign to sow doubt about the science of climate change, the consequences of which we are living through today...

...Terry Yosie - who had recently been recruited from the American Petroleum Institute, becoming a senior vice-president at the firm - remembers that Harrison began the pitch by reminding his audience that he was instrumental in fighting the auto reforms. He had done so, in part, by reframing the issue.

The same tactics would now help beat climate regulation. They would persuade people that the scientific facts weren't settled, and that alongside the environment, policy makers needed to consider how action on climate change would - in the GCC's view - negatively affect American jobs, trade and prices.

The strategy would be implemented through an extensive media campaign, everything from placing quotes and pitching opinion pieces (so-called op-eds), to direct contacts with journalists.

"A lot of reporters were assigned to write stories," Rheem says, "and they were struggling with the complexity of the issue. So I would write backgrounders so reporters could read them and get up to speed."

Uncertainty ran through the full gamut of the GCC's publications, a creative array of letters, glossy brochures, and monthly newsletters.

Rheem and the team were prolific - within a year, Harrison's firm claimed to have secured more than 500 specific mentions in the media.

In August 1993, Harrison took stock of progress in another meeting with the GCC.

"The rising awareness of the scientific uncertainty has caused some in Congress to pause on advocating new initiatives," declared an updated internal strategy pitch, shared with the BBC by Terry Yosie.

"Activists sounding the alarm over 'global warming' have publicly conceded that they lost ground in the communications arena over the past year."

Now, Harrison counselled, they needed to expand the external voices making their case.

"Scientists, economists, academics and other noted experts carry greater credibility with the media and general public than industry representatives."

While most climate scientists agreed that human-caused climate change was a real issue that would require action, a small group argued there was no cause for alarm. The plan was to pay these sceptics to give speeches or write op-eds - about $1,500 (£1,250) per article - and to arrange media tours so they could appear on local TV and radio stations.

"My role was to identify the voices that were not in the mainstream and to give those voices a stage," Rheem says. "There was a lot we didn't know at the time. And part of my role was to highlight what we didn't know."

He says the media was hungry for these perspectives.

"Journalists were actually actively looking for the contrarians. It was really feeding an appetite that was already there."





... "GCC has successfully turned the tide on press coverage of global climate change science, effectively countering the eco-catastrophe message and asserting the lack of scientific consensus on global warming."

The groundwork had been laid for the industry's biggest campaign to date - opposing international efforts to negotiate emissions reductions at Kyoto, in Japan, in December 1997. ...

...Three decades on, the consequences are all around us.

"I think it's the moral equivalent of a war crime," says former US Vice-President Al Gore of the big oil companies' efforts to block action.

"I think it is, in many ways, the most serious crime of the post-World War Two era, anywhere in the world. The consequences of what they've done are just almost unimaginable."...
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07-25-2022 , 12:07 PM
Quote:
"I think it's the moral equivalent of a war crime," says former US Vice-President Al Gore of the big oil companies' efforts to block action.


I think with alot of average folks they get the message but also see the Hypocrisy in Al Gore lecturing us as he lives in a 10,000 sq ft home or Decaprio telling us how bad fossil fuels are as he owns a luxury yacht and how many houses and never flown private

Lets see were Europe ends up on its Paris Accord targets . WE all know Germany is screwed on hitting those
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07-25-2022 , 12:29 PM
“We could have done something about climate change but Al Gore lives in a big house.”
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07-25-2022 , 01:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lozen

I think with alot of average folks they get the message but also see the Hypocrisy in Al Gore lecturing us as he lives in a 10,000 sq ft home or Decaprio telling us how bad fossil fuels are as he owns a luxury yacht and how many houses and never flown private

Lets see were Europe ends up on its Paris Accord targets . WE all know Germany is screwed on hitting those
Yeah, let's ignore the people who can actually reach the whole world. Let's only to listen climate activists who are homeless.
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07-25-2022 , 03:11 PM
https://www.ecowatch.com/climate-haven-cities-us.html

Quote:
“climate havens”

Florida is sinking. The Western states are drying out and catching fire.
Is there anywhere in the U.S. that will still make a good home as the climate crisis continues?

The Great Lakes region is considered especially attractive because it is spared both the
storms of the East Coast and the wildfires of the West, and has no shortage of fresh water..
Further, the lakes help moderate temperature extremes and global
warming means that the region’s infamous winters are getting less bitter.

1. Asheville, North Carolina
2. Buffalo, New York
3. Burlington, Vermont
4. Detroit, Michigan
5. Duluth, Minnesota
6. Madison, Wisconsin
7. Milwaukee, Wisconsin
8. Minneapolis, Minnesota
9. Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
10. Rochester, New York
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07-25-2022 , 04:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trolly McTrollson
“We could have done something about climate change but Al Gore lives in a big house.”
Hey I never said its right and unless the world accepts Nuclear it may be doomed. We just have to many people on the planet. Greed motivates many of them
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07-25-2022 , 06:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lozen
Hey I never said its right…
Right, you don’t have the integrity to stand behind these terrible takes so you frame it as “Well, other people are saying…”
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07-26-2022 , 03:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lozen
We just have to many people on the planet.
BS. But many bottom feeders believe this.
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07-26-2022 , 04:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by steamraise
Why (or when?) aren't insurance companies pricing any of this in? Seems like Florida is pretty screwed given how helpless the world is to curb emissions.
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07-26-2022 , 06:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by InJuiceWeTrust
BS. But many bottom feeders believe this.
why ?
humans already need 1 and a half planet earth per year in consumption ?
and that is with a huge amount of people not even with western standard of living.
Imagine if it was the case ....
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07-27-2022 , 03:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lozen

I think with alot of average folks they get the message but also see the Hypocrisy in Al Gore lecturing us as he lives in a 10,000 sq ft home or Decaprio telling us how bad fossil fuels are as he owns a luxury yacht and how many houses and never flown private

Lets see were Europe ends up on its Paris Accord targets . WE all know Germany is screwed on hitting those
Al Gore’s point is pretty solid regardless of his home.

If moderate predictions about unchecked climate change come true (in full, many have already happened) it will likely lead to a loss of life, stability, economy and security unheard of in modern history. Even the world wars would not come close.

We also know that a lot of climate-change denial is the result of actual conspiracies, using money from big oil (among others) to publish fake research, buy politicians and hire pr agencies.

It is very unlikely that the world will treat this as the equivalent of war crimes in the near future. Climate-change denial is still very much the movement which leads the race politically.

But people tend to be angrier after the fact. I wouldn’t bet on it, but some kind of Nurnberg-proceeding to go after the guilty isn’t unthinkable in the far future.
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07-27-2022 , 09:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tame_deuces
Al Gore’s point is pretty solid regardless of his home.

If moderate predictions about unchecked climate change come true (in full, many have already happened) it will likely lead to a loss of life, stability, economy and security unheard of in modern history. Even the world wars would not come close.

We also know that a lot of climate-change denial is the result of actual conspiracies, using money from big oil (among others) to publish fake research, buy politicians and hire pr agencies.

It is very unlikely that the world will treat this as the equivalent of war crimes in the near future. Climate-change denial is still very much the movement which leads the race politically.

But people tend to be angrier after the fact. I wouldn’t bet on it, but some kind of Nurnberg-proceeding to go after the guilty isn’t unthinkable in the far future.
I am not denying that Climate Change may be our biggest challenge. Though it is a world problem and I suspect it will get much worse before it even has a chance at getting better

All we hear is so many green jobs. Yes lots of green jobs but sadly they will be in China as Biden is set or already has removed the tariffs and restrictions on Solar panels

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/bid...ms-2022-06-06/

When you trace back to many of these companies they are Chinese controlled or owned.

Why doesnt Gore run for Pres on a climate change ticket
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07-27-2022 , 09:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lozen
I am not denying that Climate Change may be our biggest challenge. Though it is a world problem and I suspect it will get much worse before it even has a chance at getting better

All we hear is so many green jobs. Yes lots of green jobs but sadly they will be in China as Biden is set or already has removed the tariffs and restrictions on Solar panels

When you trace back to many of these companies they are Chinese controlled or owned.

Why doesnt Gore run for Pres on a climate change ticket
Can you explain what the size of Al Gore's house has to do with any of this? Cause it sounds like a really dumb deflection away from people like you spending decades doing nothing about a massive existential threat to the world.
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07-27-2022 , 10:09 AM
People like you

I enjoy flaming lozen as much as the next guy but wtf have you done to save the earth these last few decades?
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07-27-2022 , 10:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tame_deuces
Al Gore’s point is pretty solid regardless of his home.

If moderate predictions about unchecked climate change come true (in full, many have already happened) it will likely lead to a loss of life, stability, economy and security unheard of in modern history. Even the world wars would not come close.

We also know that a lot of climate-change denial is the result of actual conspiracies, using money from big oil (among others) to publish fake research, buy politicians and hire pr agencies.

It is very unlikely that the world will treat this as the equivalent of war crimes in the near future. Climate-change denial is still very much the movement which leads the race politically.

But people tend to be angrier after the fact. I wouldn’t bet on it, but some kind of Nurnberg-proceeding to go after the guilty isn’t unthinkable in the far future.
I see it as a tragedy of the commons problem. If they believed that the entire world was on board, I think A LOT of Westerners, including Americans who currently aren't, would be on board with sacrificing in the present for the future. But they also (correctly) realize that countries like China, India and Russia would never be on board, so they would just be sacrificing without much benefit for the world. As long as this is the reality (and I dont see any way it wont be for the foreseeable future) I don't think there will be any impetus to go after "the guilty" in the West.
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07-27-2022 , 10:35 AM
Whats funny when people say what about China is that a massive amount of carbon that china creates is via its manufacturing consumer goods for western consumption.

A huge amount of western carbon production is off shored.
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07-27-2022 , 11:11 AM
Quit a conundrum. Although I find it a little ironic in the other thread you were arguing the US is producing enough fossil fuels, while in this thread admitting we are effectively at a huge deficit when you consider how much fossil fuels are burned in China expressly for US consumption purposes.


In a recent podcast Bret Weinstein commented that in his opinion the only way out of this conundrum is massive technological leaps. And the fact we aren't devoting massive resources to developing nuclear fusion technologies, CO2 scrubbers, etc. is extremely short sighted.
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07-27-2022 , 11:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheNoGod2
Quit a conundrum. Although I find it a little ironic in the other thread you were arguing the US is producing enough fossil fuels, while in this thread admitting we are effectively at a huge deficit when you consider how much fossil fuels are burned in China expressly for US consumption purposes.
.
Im not remotely arguing the above in any shape or form, so all that is ironic is your complete and utter strawman.

The issues just are not linked in the way you assume because you read something on twitter.

You are aware that China is the largest coal producer in the world?

So its trivial for it to produce its own energy needs.

You cant just assume a deficit, which is what you keep doing over and over again with no actual numbers or evidence to support it.
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07-27-2022 , 11:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by O.A.F.K.1.1
Whats funny when people say what about China is that a massive amount of carbon that china creates is via its manufacturing consumer goods for western consumption.

A huge amount of western carbon production is off shored.
even with China producing a lot of what would be OUR c02 emissions, im pretty sure the US is still DOUBLE the carbon emissions per capita that china is.

acting like we shouldn't do anything because china exists is also an anti-climate change talking point..
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07-27-2022 , 11:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheNoGod2
I see it as a tragedy of the commons problem. If they believed that the entire world was on board, I think A LOT of Westerners, including Americans who currently aren't, would be on board with sacrificing in the present for the future. But they also (correctly) realize that countries like China, India and Russia would never be on board, so they would just be sacrificing without much benefit for the world. As long as this is the reality (and I dont see any way it wont be for the foreseeable future) I don't think there will be any impetus to go after "the guilty" in the West.
"We could have done something about climate change but China, Russia and India bad!!!!"
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07-27-2022 , 11:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nutella virus
People like you

I enjoy flaming lozen as much as the next guy but wtf have you done to save the earth these last few decades?
lol, there's nothing these guys hate more than having to own their crappy takes. If you don't like being lumped in with climate denialist idiots, maybe don't signal boost their irresponsible fossil fuel-backed talking points.
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07-27-2022 , 11:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by InJuiceWeTrust
"We could have done something about climate change but China, Russia and India bad!!!!"
Did you hear that this politician from the 90's has a very large house?
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07-27-2022 , 11:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by InJuiceWeTrust
"We could have done something about climate change but China, Russia and India bad!!!!"
Well, most people wouldn't push back too hard against "Russia bad" take right about now.

But with China, India and many African nations, it is definitely a problem that they are basically going through their industrial revolutions now. And it would be asking a lot for Western countries to suggest they should stay pre-industrial for the good of the planet. I dont find the whole moral framing as being particularly useful, but you do you.

Like Brett Weinstein suggests, it seems the only real way out of this is technological innovation, and it is asinine we aren't focused way more on this than we are. Imagine instead of subsidizing SpaceX missions to Mars, the US govt was subsidizing at the same level exploration of fusion technology.
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07-27-2022 , 12:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trolly McTrollson
Did you hear that this politician from the 90's has a very large house?
I bet I do a lot more for the climate than you do?


Politicians and actors have a large stage so they should use it. Take for example my favorite politician when asked what he does to save the planet in reducing plastics



Bottom line is Climate Change is real and will kill millions but sadly as Brett Weinstein has said were ignoring the logical solutions
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