read through everything, as someone who's spent over a decade in and out of china first playing poker in tea houses then migrating to journalism and finally in tech... i feel like should comment
Quote:
Originally Posted by grizy
The Economist summed it up best in an article I can’t be bothered to find: Chinese citizens don’t always believe what CCP says but they believe the CCP means to say what it says.
this is the smartest comment written here - people in china aren't idiots - they know what is going on and the overwhelming majority are ok with it
for reference, in the last two centuries, China has had dozens of governments and over a hundred million killed in war related famine/flooding (breaking damns/dikes to stall the enemy) etc
basically all recent history of China is of unstable governments, rebellion, warfare, disease, famine, etc - this burns a whole in your conscious - i'm not sure if any of you had grandparents who lived through the great depression - you may have noticed how such hardship had changed them even when times were great - the great depression lasted a brief moment - China has literally been through two centuries of straight hell until things finally began to stablize in recent decades - the generation in power today are the first generation in all that time to never experience any of those hardships - but the mentality is still deeply driven into the culture
all of this is very important - when you expect horrible things to happen then you don't mind a lot of things
for example, a lot of fat people end up dating and marrying other fat people, they properly prefer the SI swimsuit model but they've had their own expectations dashed by their own struggles
Quote:
Originally Posted by Regret$
Hong Kong was literally stolen from the Chinese by the British because the Chinese wouldn't let the British sell drugs in China. China has a lot of problems and to take issue with their government is fair. To expect Hong Kong to be its own enclave is preposterous and amounts to imperialist apologism. If you are not sure what I mean, look at a map.
Yup, this is like if the latino population started demanding what we took from the spanish american war to be independent, same with florida, same with hawaii, same with russian descendants in alaska demanding independence there as well but not just that but the rest of the world taking that vocal minority very seriously and citing precedent that alaska used to to part of russia and signed over via treat etc etc
Quote:
Originally Posted by tame_deuces
If I had to live there, I'd take Hong Kong under British rule any day of the week over the dystopic nightmare that is current day China.
i think this is a major problem, everyone grossly exaggerates China and makes this look like a "dystopian nightmare" like that social credit score, i'm not getting into it but it's essentially the same as taking a look at all the sodomy laws in america and then having john oliver do an entire 30 minute segment that anal sex is forbidden in america and anyone who does it will go to jail - which you can do with china because nobody knows anything about china but you couldn't do with say England because too many americans would be able to say "hey I've been to England and I can speak English and I didn't see any evidence of that"
there are answers on quora that are highly upvoted about not being able to buy kitchen knives without a fake idea - i sometimes even message the guys asking why they are making things up like this and they say it's not about the truth so much as painting china as the enemy and everyone buys it
Quote:
Originally Posted by Regret$
Quite simply, HK is a contiguous part of China. While rights there are unfortunate, it is not really any different than the rest of China. Cuba is relevant as a comparison for how we (USA) fare in our support of rights and freedoms. We actively undermine democracy in Haiti and other Caribbean countries. If we cared for actual democracy in Cuba it would already be done. Cuba is in our backyard but we do nothing, and talk as though some sort of intervention WRT HK is a rational option. Its pure saber rattling. Perhaps if we supported democracy in our own backyard then we would have some right to preach down to the Chinese but we don't.
yup
Quote:
Originally Posted by tame_deuces
Sign me up for the Empire any day of the week when it means free speech, being able to write on this forum without being arrested and not being sent to concentration camps for having political opinions.
I'll leave you to enjoy your moral superiority over supporting a regime where us two having this discussion would be illegal.
again, this isn't even remotely accurate
Quote:
Originally Posted by coordi
I don't know about the handwaving stuff. I heard he said something stupid. Most people do say something stupid every now and then.
He also has family over in China.
I tried to talk to my ex about HK and she just happened to be in Shanghai at that moment (shes from China). She blocked me for bringing it up, and didn't talk to me for a couple of weeks until she took her next position in the Bahamas.
i love you coordi, but have you considered maybe your ex blocked you because you're an ex? Or maybe she wasn't afraid but rather just didn't want to deal with your concentration camp bs?
Quote:
Originally Posted by juan valdez
Yeah Kerr is an idiot. Saying nothing is an option. You don't have to be political. This statement is offensively stupid
this kerr statement is actually very accurate
in my time working in journalism i was working for a banned news agency, doing it illegally on a tourist visa and basically living a degen night life drinking and smoking most nights - we knew our phones were being bugged because sometimes we'd arrange an interview and then a few hours later the guy would call back and say he got a visit and decided it was a bad idea
but they didn't track or if they did, they didn't bother me - i got really annoyed when people texted me about drugs or whatever because I'm like "dude wtf you know my job" and all that - nothing ever happened
later transitioned to tech and was an early employee at a social network that got really big - social network like big brother censorship right? Yes, we had a massive staff only hired to cleanse the network but they were mostly just removing dick picks - I was friendly with a bunch of those guys and they were all super depressed because their lives were looking at dick pics the algorithms found and confirming it was indeed a dick pic and needed to be removed
if there was political discussion it was nearly always ignored unless it hit certain topics - but the bottom line is they'd just delete the stuff not investigate or prosecute or any of that nonsense, it'd just be treated the same way 2+2 treats dick pics - which is removing them and probably banning repeat offenders - it's literally no different and frankly, as I type this, I already feel like some people are going to say I'm lying or making it up or a shill or whatever but that's the reality
but... having said all of that, china is most certainly an issue people can't ignore
when you go past those two centuries of hell you basically have what was pretty much the wealthiest, most powerful and most advanced kingdom in the world from there on out so that's the light at the end of the tunnel of misery for them - they see what they were in recent history and then they see the glory of long before
with rome, greece, iran & egypt these prior eras of glory are more nostalgic and many of those people don't even truly consider themselves the same - a modern guy in cairo would laugh at being compared to someone in the time of the pharaohs and yet in China, they see themselves as the continuation of that history as they are one and the same it's there rightful place at the top of the global food chain that they need to reclaim
whether or not this happens in a mutually beneficial or zero sum game setting is still unclear - but China is most certainly focused on nothing other than doing that and it's basically a foregone conclusion - in many ways, it's possible to argue that it's already been achieved
after two centuries of pain, misery, humiliation and failure, the current population looks at this government with nothing but admiration for righting the ship and will stand by them through thick and thin and when we charicarize them with social credit score memes and absurd exaggerations about concentration camps and people getting locked up jail for nothing then we're never going to be prepared to speak on them on equal terms because when they deal with us, they know exactly who we are and don't go to absurd hyperbole
and for the record, in many ways, china has about some of the most personal freedoms in the world, when i am not in china I'm very conscious about all the rules and things I can or can't do
police here are unarmed and deal more like arbiters - if there is an issue, they'll show up and try to get both sides to agree to terms and end the situation then and there - which in many ways is far better than dragging two neighbors through a court battle over deciding whether or not they can cut down the tree right on the property line like we have in the US
in china, you can basically do anything you want and outside of violent crime or actively trying to overthrow the regime, there's zero chance anyhing bad would ever happen to you
but the main thing is, the people literally wouldn't want to take down the regime, this is the first good one they've had in centuries