Capitol attack and 6th of January hearings - Page 25 - Politics and Society -- Two Plus Two Poker Forums

Oh, protestors, or rioters, or mobs hell bent on change, are now domestic terrorist. I don't disagree. No doubt there are some domestic terrorist with those who protest, riot, and engage in mob behavior, something you won't agree with when it comes to the actions done this past summer, and actively attempted to refute such claims. Storming the capital is not what makes them terrorist, the pipe bombs are, just as the violent acts committed by rioters this summer. The politics of the terrorist has nothing to do with what a terrorist is.

So we got...
a.) apparently attempting takeovers of the federal government isn't terrorism, and
b.) I guess I missed all the BLM bombings last year?

lol this dude never stops giving the gift of his posts

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01-07-2021 , 06:55 PM

#602

businessdude

Carpal \'Tunnel

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Who decides the validity of riots? Let's say one group wants to riot because they think not enough is being done for climate change. Another group thinks income taxes are too high. Which group is allowed to say destroy property because their reason for rioting is better?

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01-07-2021 , 06:55 PM

#603

Bobo Fett

Carpe Diem

Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 56,991

Quote:

Originally Posted by golfnutt

They blocked Trump’s tweets. I can’t read them anymore.

This happened yesterday and came up in a couple of threads, but maybe not this one. According to Twitter, his account's been closed until 12 hours after he deletes three tweets (including his last two) which are currently blocked.

Quote:

Originally Posted by goofyballer

A video of the MAGA woman getting shot (will link, not embed, as it shows someone getting shot and killed) suggests Secret Service did it. Shooter was wearing a suit, not a cop. Linking for the video, no idea if the tweet comment about it being Pence's security detail is accurate.

https://twitter.com/Partisangirl/sta...90927811104768

Quote:

Originally Posted by tame_deuces

Tough and chaotic spot for the shooter, but it seems clear that was their line and right now we don't know the reason they held it there. It seems superficially like a justified shooting if they needed to hold that line, but impossible to tell from a 10-second clip. I'm sure there will be enough inquiries for a lifetime to figure out the details of it.

The fact that there are police behind her apparently allowing her to continue what she's doing makes it quite likely that she wouldn't have expected this result. Doesn't make it right that she's attempting to break in somewhere she clearly shouldn't be, but I can see how it happened in all the chaos.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tame_deuces

Tragic that a life is lost due to believing in a completely bogus movement and a mountain of lies.

This.

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01-07-2021 , 06:55 PM

#604

itshotinvegas

banned

Join Date: Jul 2019 Posts: 7,899

Quote:

Originally Posted by goofyballer

So we got...
a.) apparently attempting takeovers of the federal government isn't terrorism, and
b.) I guess I missed all the BLM bombings last year?

Bomb was an example of the use of violence and intimidation.

As far as a.)

Quote:

Seattle Protesters Take Over City Hall With Help From Council Member

Led by Seattle City Council Member Kshama Sawant, a crowd of Black Lives Matters protesters flooded into City Hall late Tuesday. Videos from the scene showed dozens, if not hundreds, of demonstrators occupying the building after reportedly being let in by Sawant, who has sided with protesters amid unrest in the city and criticized the police response. Many of the demonstrators held signs reading “Durkan must go” and chanted calls for Mayor Jenny Durkan’s ouster. A lawsuit filed against city authorities in federal court earlier Tuesday singles Durkan out for authorizing aggressive police actions during recent protests, including the use of tear gas and other chemical irritants.

Quote:

https://www.thedailybeast.com/seattl...council-member

Oh, it's not federal building, so not the same thing....

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01-07-2021 , 06:57 PM

#605

Rococo

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Quote:

Originally Posted by itshotinvegas

Subvert rule of law.

I guess. But the goal of subverting the law in this case was to deny the results of the election based on a delusion about election fraud. So I think we can skip directly to calling it an attempt to subvert democracy.

And that's assuming that everyone who breached the Capitol believed the delusion, which almost certainly is not true.

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01-07-2021 , 07:00 PM

#606

goofyballer

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Quote:

Originally Posted by businessdude

Those both sound like pretty poor reasons to riot to me. But it seems like everyone ITT believes the strangling of democracy in Hong Kong by China is a valid reason for HK residents to riot, so ultimately this kind of subjective judgement is what everyone ends up doing anyway no matter how much they claim not to.

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01-07-2021 , 07:01 PM

#607

27offsuit

actions have consequences!

Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 38,578

Quote:

Originally Posted by suzzer99

Crazy that there were cops right behind her who didn't care.

The mob at the top of that stairwell was just completely ignoring the stormtrooper cops yelling at them. One guy was literally hand-waving a cop away as he was standing over the just-shot lady with his phone out.

Ridonkulous.

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01-07-2021 , 07:03 PM

#608

GTO2.0

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 3,843

Quote:

Originally Posted by golfnutt

Trump needs to pardon all those protestors.

Then Trump needs to resign or get charged for inciting violence.

Otherwise, we got to charge thousands of people with tresspassing. This will clog our courts and prisons for years though.

What a cluster.

This may surprise you, but a couple thousand extra people isn’t going to clog anything.

There’s like 80,000 federal felons a year.

New York County - just manhattan alone - has about the same number of misdemeanor cases filed per year. When Occupy was a thing they arrested hundreds of people for riot/disorderly conduct type stuff and worked through it pretty easily.

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01-07-2021 , 07:04 PM

#609

RFlushDiamonds

cool

Join Date: Apr 2013 Posts: 5,969

Quote:

Originally Posted by itshotinvegas

I think communism is barbaric and it heavily influences China, and Hong Kong.

Yes, the concept of sharing the means of production rather than constructing a pyramid scheme where only the fit survive is most certainly the brainchild of a barbarian.

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01-07-2021 , 07:05 PM

#610

itshotinvegas

banned

Join Date: Jul 2019 Posts: 7,899

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rococo

See, I don't really have an argument against this, I agree, but if I were to warn you about marxist involving themselves in the protest/riots this past summer in order to create chaos and further polarization with the goal of subverting our economic and political system, I'm sure some on this forum would (and have) handwaved that away.

It's really hard for me to take serious the concern some here are expressing.

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01-07-2021 , 07:06 PM

#611

d2_e4

certifiable moron

Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 12,510

Quote:

Originally Posted by RFlushDiamonds

Yes, the concept of sharing the means of production rather than constructing a pyramid scheme where only the fit survive is most certainly the brainchild of a barbarian.

The concept is fine. The implementation, not so much.

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01-07-2021 , 07:07 PM

#612

RFlushDiamonds

cool

Join Date: Apr 2013 Posts: 5,969

Quote:

Originally Posted by d2_e4

The concept is fine. The implementation, not so much.

Oh, I agree.

But he doubled down on the wrong adjective and you know me, all I do is give.

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01-07-2021 , 07:13 PM

#613

MrWookie

Don't Call Me Meredith

Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 94,159

Quote:

Originally Posted by itshotinvegas

Bomb was an example of the use of violence and intimidation.

As far as a.)

Oh, it's not federal building, so not the same thing....

PeopLe wEre in tHe BUiLDiNG, It'S oBvIOUSLY tHe SAme thINg

1. No breaking and entering.
2. No threats to kidnap and murder government officials.
3. No bombs.
4. Protesting police violence instead of trying to overturn a free and fair election to install Trump as dictator for life.

These things matter! Any reasonable person would think they matter. Like, had these people yesterday just gathered in the Rotunda and waved signs, they'd be protesters instead of terrorists.

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01-07-2021 , 07:17 PM

#614

goofyballer

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A more international perspective on the events in the United States yesterday

Quote:

One NATO source set the stage, using terms more commonly used to describe unrest in developing countries.

"The defeated president gives a speech to a group of supporters where he tells them he was robbed of the election, denounces his own administration's members and party as traitors, and tells his supporters to storm the building where the voting is being held," the NATO intelligence official said.

"The supporters, many dressed in military attire and waving revolutionary-style flags, then storm the building where the federal law-enforcement agencies controlled by the current president do not establish a security cordon, and the protesters quickly overwhelm the last line of police.

"The president then makes a public statement to the supporters attacking the Capitol that he loves them but doesn't really tell them to stop," the official said. "Today I am briefing my government that we believe with a reasonable level of certainty that Donald Trump attempted a coup that failed when the system did not buckle.

"I can't believe this happened."

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01-07-2021 , 07:18 PM

#615

Slighted

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Inso0

I just thought it amusing that you think arresting and locking people up is definitely a deterrent for this sort of shenanigans, but it apparently doesn't work for any other societal disruption. That's the story we're led to believe, anyway.

i hope this is a bit.. because otherwise, it's one of the dumbest things i've ever read.

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01-07-2021 , 07:19 PM

#616

RussellinToronto

veteran

Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,204

Quote:

Originally Posted by rayfox111

I'm not disputing that the event happened.
My objection to the title is that Trump told them to protest, not to be violent.
I suppose it depends on what emphasis you put on incites.

And Giuliani told them it was trial by combat!

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01-07-2021 , 07:20 PM

#617

27offsuit

actions have consequences!

Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 38,578

The biggest thing that yesterday really drove home to me more than anything else is: https://youtu.be/qDtu2eiCT0s?t=53

Last edited by 27offsuit; 01-07-2021 at 07:27 PM.

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01-07-2021 , 07:26 PM

#618

tame_deuces

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Some local believers in my country called for the revolution to step up yesterday as well, and I think they genuinely believed their movement was ready to rise at an international level.

It was met with some rolling off the eyes, slight cringing and at some point even an exasperated chuckle. Crisis averted.

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01-07-2021 , 07:26 PM

#619

MrWookie

Don't Call Me Meredith

Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 94,159

Quote:

Originally Posted by rayfox111

I'm not disputing that the event happened.
My objection to the title is that Trump told them to protest, not to be violent.
I suppose it depends on what emphasis you put on incites.

He also told them that he loved them well after the violence had been underway. Of course he was cheering them on. He had the national guard beat and gas non-violent protesters he didn't like using a photo op as a flimsy pretext earlier this year. This time, he denied the use of the national guard for hours when these people were storming the Capitol and threatening to kidnap and murder our elected officials.

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01-07-2021 , 07:28 PM

#620

itshotinvegas

banned

Join Date: Jul 2019 Posts: 7,899

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrWookie

LOL:

Quote:

During speeches, someone wrote “Next Time We Come w/ Pitchforks” in pink chalk on the street. Someone else scrawled the movement’s three demands in blue chalk: defunding SPD by 50 percent, re-investing in communities, releasing all protesters without charges.

...

Quote:

The last speaker in Durkan’s neighborhood was Katrina Johnson, Charleena Lyles’s cousin, who’s become the spokesperson for the family. “I’m not gonna lie to you guys. I’m tired. The death threats are beyond anything you guys could ever imagine.” Her speech, like many that night, was a call for unity. “We got community leaders fighting with other community leaders and it does nothing for our movement.”

I have to stop posting now, but come on man. This is you, once again, defending, rationalization and trivializing the violent behavior this past summer, and the impact it's had on those communities. There are tons of examples I could cite that you would and defended, rationalize and trivialize each one.

Quote:

Police chief condemns protest violence: ‘This is not how Seattle creates change’

SEATTLE — Seattle Interim Police Chief Adrian Diaz condemned the recent violence in the city and called for an end to property damage and assaults on police officers.

---

During a Sunday news conference, Diaz called for an end to the violence after a string of destructive protests in the city that included property damage to businesses and city hall, fires lit in the middle of streets and officers being assaulted by protesters throwing rocks, water bottles and explosives.

Quote

01-07-2021 , 07:28 PM

#621

Cuepee

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Quote:

Originally Posted by goofyballer

Yes, reasons matter! A lot! This is an extremely obvious point that's extremely difficult to get through your thick skull, but roughly every other human being alive understands this pretty well. Even you do, as evidenced by your willingness to use REASONS to condone HK riots, you're just not smart enough to understand that it's the exact same thing everyone else is doing.

IHIV operates on the 'if i am sympathetic to their plight I am ok with it. If I am not it is wrong'.

And while he might hold some sympathy for HK due to 'COMMUNISTS!!!' , there is no way he has any sympathy for POC and their plight in America.

They need to find another way like taking a knee at sporting events ...oh wait...