Open Side Menu Go to the Top
Register
Capitol attack and 6th of January hearings Capitol attack and 6th of January hearings

01-09-2021 , 09:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobo Fett
If you're waiting for someone to quote him saying "Hey everyone, you need to march down to the Capitol right now and riot, string 'em all up!", you know no one's going to be able to do that, but it won't be some kind of "gotcha" on your part. If that's what you're seeking, don't bother wasting everyone's time, including your own.

Trump's been building this up for weeks, telling people to come down on January 6th, it's "going to be wild". The morning of the attack, he spoke at the rally, carrying on about the "election steal", telling people they need to march to the Capitol (actually, that he's be marching with them which of course he didn't). What was he expecting, especially after Giuliani's combat remark? Or some of his own comments, like:

"Our country has had enough. We will not take it anymore, and that is what this is all about."

"Because you'll never take back our country with weakness. You have to show strength and you have to be strong."

Did he ever tell anyone to riot? Of course not. Did he mention being peaceful? Yes, in his hour long rant, that also came up a couple of times. What of it?

As t_d has provided citations for, Trump was pleased over the outcome, and National Guard response was delayed, as was his own. Hell, Biden was telling everyone to go home before Trump did. But of course, that might be because he way busy doing more important things: "As riot raged at Capitol, Trump tried to call senators to overturn election".

And of course the roots of this extend back, well, to before he was elected, stoking division wherever he could, talking about the deep state, encouraging conspiracists like QAnon. Talking about fraudulent elections in 2016, and then leading up to this one letting everyone know that the only way he could lose would be if the election was fraudulent.

Now, if you want to argue about how much direct responsibility Trump has for this, at least that makes a little sense. Kind of pointless IMO, because none of this happens if Trump simply uses the legal processes available to him after the election rather than using every opportunity to promote his conspiracy theories, but if it makes you feel better to say he doesn't have a lot of direct responsibility because he didn't specifically tell anyone they should do this, um, OK.

But if you're going to sit back and say Trump holds little to no responsibility for this, then you're either being extremely disingenuous, or incredibly naïve. And I think that's being kind. The fact that someone can't draw a straight line from statement A to the attack doesn't mean that there's not a whole lot of responsibility on Trump for what's happened. If you truly can't see that, you should rethink things. Seriously.
this is a fair argument , i will have to comeback later though... busy at the moment.
Capitol attack and 6th of January hearings Quote
01-09-2021 , 10:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fishfood69er
so trumps accountable for the fringe extreamists then bernies responsible for all the death antifas caused. this is nonesense. the 75 million votes for trump only a few hundred are these people. this is not an arguement .
Antifa hasnt really killed anyone since the 40s.
Capitol attack and 6th of January hearings Quote
01-09-2021 , 10:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monteroy
I assume the mods can move the not Hitler vs Team Hitler debate to its own thread or one of the containment threads.
I do sympathize with the right in the fact that the liberals just love lying. heres a liberal that cant even comment on basic facts from just a few posts up. see, we are talking about Churchill. not Hitler. libs ghana lib tho.
Capitol attack and 6th of January hearings Quote
01-09-2021 , 10:18 PM
I'm under the impression it was vice president Pence that called in the national guard. Pence pulled a pseudo 25th amendment on Trump. Trump was fine with the chaos and carnage.
Capitol attack and 6th of January hearings Quote
01-09-2021 , 10:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Victor
Monty was def cheering and gloating when Trump won. I remember that. He was quite happy that it pissed off the libs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Victor
I do sympathize with the right in the fact that the liberals just love lying. heres a liberal that cant even comment on basic facts from just a few posts up.
Math adds up. Think your Churchill debate is back in this thread, so you can continue with it apparently suggesting a different person with some other name was not as bad or something. Note, still waiting for the pro Trump posts of mine you said you would show. Maybe you thought I was talking about Churchill.

All the best.
Capitol attack and 6th of January hearings Quote
01-09-2021 , 11:12 PM
Oh, no, another "antitrust violation" because Amazon is afraid of "competing" platforms like...Parler

Capitol attack and 6th of January hearings Quote
01-09-2021 , 11:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fishfood69er
please then , tell me what he said
https://www.rev.com/blog/transcripts...ript-january-6
Quote:
We will not let them silence your voices.
We’re not going to let it happen. Not going to let it happen.

you’ll never take back our country with weakness.
You have to show strength, and you have to be strong.

Because they want to steal the election.
The radical left knows exactly what they’re doing.
They’re ruthless and it’s time that somebody did something about it.

And we fight. We fight like Hell and if you don’t fight like Hell, you’re not going to have a country anymore.
Capitol attack and 6th of January hearings Quote
01-09-2021 , 11:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fishfood69er
for the sake of sanity and any quantifiable debate lets leave Opeds out of it. thats all opinon and hear say . you can only go off what he actually said . he told them to peacefully protest , he told them to go home once the capital fiasco happened , he condemned the ones in the capital and said hes the one who called the nation guard. these are the facts we have not fantasy land op eds from activists posing as journalist.

this was the biggest blunder to his campaign they were literally about to give 10 days for evidence then the police literally let them in the building. hmmmmmmm intersting ( if i were a betting man wink wink) but i have no real proof so i wait. there IS evidence and anomilies and affidavits but they didnt MAKE it to court that is not the same as LOSING IN TRAIL . i can go on forever but to keep generalizing will help no one. the only way to have a debate on this of any meaning is for us to pick very specific instances and focus on one particular event at a time.
Literally none of those citations are OpEds.
Capitol attack and 6th of January hearings Quote
01-09-2021 , 11:27 PM
fishfood is try to present himself as reasonable and civil but I think what he's trying to do is disgusting.
He's attempting to minimise the attack on Wednesday as nothing more than a small disturbance. A minor incident. ' hey guy's, what's all the fuss about?'.
But at least he hasn't glorified the terrorists as American patriots. Not yet.
Capitol attack and 6th of January hearings Quote
01-09-2021 , 11:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobo Fett
....The fact that someone can't draw a straight line from....
Bobo Fett, great post, well said sir.

If Trump wasn't there to Incite, Embolden, and DIRECT his sheep, would there be a riot at the Capitol?

People arguing that Trump didn't say to be violent would be saying that Mafia boss only said "take 'em out back" and didn't tell his goons to be violent.
Capitol attack and 6th of January hearings Quote
01-09-2021 , 11:51 PM
The brother of the female Trump supporter who was trampled to death blamed Trump, on camera, for inciting the violence and that the 25th should be invoked.
Something fishy about this fish (guy).
Capitol attack and 6th of January hearings Quote
01-10-2021 , 12:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 57 On Red
The CIA sponsored some periodicals in the Fifties and Sixties, and promoted reprints of Nineteen Eighty-Four in that era, but I really don't think they run Wikipedia.
lmao yeah man just a couple periodicals 70 years ago im sure theyre back on the straight and naroow now!



^from michael parenti's 1986 book "inventing reality" - but hey im sure they were just briefly up to some more stuff in the 70s and 80s (a relapse after the initial periodicals in the 50s and 60s) and by now theyve given up that kind of influence for good and no way they could manage to have a couple credible wikipedia editor accounts (crazy conspiracy theory)
Capitol attack and 6th of January hearings Quote
01-10-2021 , 12:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tame_deuces
He has been lying about being the victim of a coup for months and has egged on the protests preceding the insurrection. He was also elated when the mob attacked. We also know the White House was a cause of delay for the National Guard response, after the attack was a reality.

Now, if you want to overlook that because he throws in a few pretty phrases here and there, that is certainly your prerogative. But even the most incompetent tin-pot dictators ruling some of the most brutal regimes on this planet are more than able to dress themselves in veneers of civility, law and order to their supporters. I don't find that very compelling evidence that they are actually men of law and order, and nor is Donald Trump.
oped is basically and opinion piece , fact checkers who use framing to get results they want , the rest is literally an opinion or an article about someone elses opinion. trying to respond to all of these give me a minute
Capitol attack and 6th of January hearings Quote
01-10-2021 , 12:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobo Fett
If you're waiting for someone to quote him saying "Hey everyone, you need to march down to the Capitol right now and riot, string 'em all up!", you know no one's going to be able to do that, but it won't be some kind of "gotcha" on your part. If that's what you're seeking, don't bother wasting everyone's time, including your own.

Trump's been building this up for weeks, telling people to come down on January 6th, it's "going to be wild". The morning of the attack, he spoke at the rally, carrying on about the "election steal", telling people they need to march to the Capitol (actually, that he'd be marching with them which of course he didn't). What was he expecting, especially after Giuliani's combat remark? Or some of his own comments, like:

"Our country has had enough. We will not take it anymore, and that is what this is all about."

"Because you'll never take back our country with weakness. You have to show strength and you have to be strong."

Did he ever tell anyone to riot? Of course not. Did he mention being peaceful? Yes, in his hour long rant, that also came up a couple of times. What of it?

As t_d has provided citations for, Trump was pleased over the outcome, and National Guard response was delayed, as was his own. Hell, Biden was telling everyone to go home before Trump did. But of course, that might be because he way busy doing more important things: "As riot raged at Capitol, Trump tried to call senators to overturn election".

And of course the roots of this extend back, well, to before he was elected, stoking division wherever he could, talking about the deep state, encouraging conspiracists like QAnon. Talking about fraudulent elections in 2016, and then leading up to this one letting everyone know that the only way he could lose would be if the election was fraudulent.

Now, if you want to argue about how much direct responsibility Trump has for this, at least that makes a little sense. Kind of pointless IMO, because none of this happens if Trump simply uses the legal processes available to him after the election rather than using every opportunity to promote his conspiracy theories, but if it makes you feel better to say he doesn't have a lot of direct responsibility because he didn't specifically tell anyone they should do this, um, OK.

But if you're going to sit back and say Trump holds little to no responsibility for this, then you're either being extremely disingenuous, or incredibly naïve. And I think that's being kind. The fact that someone can't draw a straight line from statement A to the attack doesn't mean that there's not a whole lot of responsibility on Trump for what's happened. If you truly can't see that, you should rethink things. Seriously.
trumps comments can definitely inflammatory , sometimes i wish hed choose to leave out hyperbole but the capital was a catastrophy . what in the world would he gain by having them storm the capital? this isnt 1776 just occupying a building doesnt gain you control this is nonsense. i watched the hole think live stream i watched the girl get shot and bleed out live stream it was a disaster and the cops let them in the building ?!?! as the gop senate was making there best cases. this roit literally stopped trump form getting his 10 days to present evidence of voter fraud which there is plenty i can gladly dig up at the very least enough to warrant a fair trail not dismissed on standing. the dncs and rinos refusal to hear this case is the most damning evidence of all . and now look at the rhetoric from the establishment calling for basically retribution on what? our fellow citizens. this has all gotten out of control i can tell you who has blood on there hands. the media all of them cnn , msnbc , fox the whole lot. they tell blm and antifa to riot and say this is sedition i watched it live it was like they were on a muesum tour.... antifa was breaking windows maga literally pulled them away once antifa or whoever broke in maga idiots walked in bewildered . it was literally the worst thing that could happen to trumps campaign i a guaruntee he never saw it coming my personal conspiracy theory is that this is nancy pelosi and establishment and the 3 letter agencies. this is not new to them they do this to other countries all the time . i think trump got owned at 4D chess.

sorry for not using the space bar lol
Capitol attack and 6th of January hearings Quote
01-10-2021 , 12:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nepeeme2008
fishfood is try to present himself as reasonable and civil but I think what he's trying to do is disgusting.
He's attempting to minimise the attack on Wednesday as nothing more than a small disturbance. A minor incident. ' hey guy's, what's all the fuss about?'.
But at least he hasn't glorified the terrorists as American patriots. Not yet.
you should really be carefull about who you call retribution on this can carry over to a civil war with idiotic rhetoric , what if someone in your family dies or a friend because of escalated tension. you guys won ( by cheating imo) but this is your chance to be the bigger men and your failing miserable.

you should watch black mirror episode "Men Against Fire" that applies to you it would seem.

also to clerify even further im actually a liberal i voted bernie ( trump and bernie actually have alot of overlapping policies) twice i saw trump as the populist flank from the right ( not at first but eventually) . i still think thats true and i will always vote for the populist candiate and i will always vote against people who think they are public masters instead of public servants. i feel like the left cant get over how shitty fat donnys personality is i really think the guy is fighting for americans. his policies say this.
Capitol attack and 6th of January hearings Quote
01-10-2021 , 12:21 AM
Huh, an attack by right wingers on a government building, and they blame it all on left wingers. Where have I heard that one before?
Capitol attack and 6th of January hearings Quote
01-10-2021 , 12:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nepeeme2008
fishfood is try to present himself as reasonable and civil but I think what he's trying to do is disgusting.
You think so? Based on only his last 5-10 posts he comes off as incredibly fanatical about Trump and unwilling and unable to just say "maybe my leader's at fault".
Capitol attack and 6th of January hearings Quote
01-10-2021 , 12:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrWookie
Huh, an attack by right wingers on a government building, and they blame it all on left wingers. Where have I heard that one before?
name another riot maga did? i can name plenty antifa and blm have done. to clerify further i understand blm and agree with them in the beginning.

also do your due diligence this one was all on video you can have all your questions anwsered by digging for it. there is actual video of what im talking about . i recomend finding the recorded live streams not edited garbage from mainstream media.

or dont and think 75 million people are nazis like neeme thinks its so obvious it hurts . lol
Capitol attack and 6th of January hearings Quote
01-10-2021 , 12:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NJPW
You think so? Based on only his last 5-10 posts he comes off as incredibly fanatical about Trump and unwilling and unable to just say "maybe my leader's at fault".
yes trump has fault here .... did your head explode? im saying there is alot at play here and you guys are falling for media narrative hook line and sinker.

were all old enough to remember the weapons of mass destruction playbook.... so ya know its possible. .
Capitol attack and 6th of January hearings Quote
01-10-2021 , 12:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fishfood69er
name another riot maga did?
Uh, Charlottesville, numerous anti-mask protests, numerous times the Proud Boys rioted in Portland, the Bundy Boys taking over a federal building, for starters.

Quote:
also do your due diligence this one was all on video you can have all your questions anwsered by digging for it. there is actual video of what im talking about . i recomend finding the recorded live streams not edited garbage from mainstream media.
I watched the livestreams. They were MAGA terrorists.

Quote:
or dont and think 75 million people are nazis like neeme thinks its so obvious it hurts . lol
Is 75 million too many or something? That's pretty close to the population of Germany circa 1935, so 75 million Nazis seems entirely possible.
Capitol attack and 6th of January hearings Quote
01-10-2021 , 01:03 AM
Accusations about election fraud and ensuing discussion have been moved to the containment thread.

Read forum rules before posting.
Capitol attack and 6th of January hearings Quote
01-10-2021 , 01:04 AM
did a page just get deleted?

come on we were having a civil debate , that will convolute this.
Capitol attack and 6th of January hearings Quote
01-10-2021 , 01:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fishfood69er
did a page just get deleted?

come on we were having a civil debate , that will convolute this.
Ik it's tough to spread your garbage now that parlour will be homeless
Capitol attack and 6th of January hearings Quote
01-10-2021 , 01:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nutella virus
Ik it's tough to spread your garbage now that parlour will be homeless
dude ive been a member here for 6-7 years and never gotten out of line. bobo fett and rococo are civil but some here are vile man . i know violence sounds cool from home on your computer but i promise seeing someone die in person or get hurt is anything but... and thats what will happen if both sides keep this bullshit going. heartbreaking.
Capitol attack and 6th of January hearings Quote
01-10-2021 , 01:27 AM
The real legacy of the riot is the five people who died unnecessarily because of the incompetence of the president. We are talking Capitol, people being tramped to death, shot, and killed with fire extinguisher.
Capitol attack and 6th of January hearings Quote

      
m