I'm not bleating on about it but the concern over antisemitism isn't about domestic legislation. It's principally about a rise in hate crime - from the verbal to the literally deadly serious. Not from the government but from those elements who are emboldened and encouraged by racism - this rise includes jewish people in the UK being blamed for any actions by the Israeli government. It's also about jewish people being discriminated against at work/etc. The usual stuff you get from racism.

There's also the concern that anti-Semites are unlikely to be fair to Israel over international middle east policy. Same way that Arabs & Muslims fear biased treatment from someone with trumpian views.

I’m sorry but everyone walking into a synagogue and shooting it up isn’t a labour supporter. Like, what you’re talking about is happening, but it’s exclusively being done by right wing lunatics.

Like I’m sorry but it’s ridiculous how The British right can play footsies with someone like Viktor orban and somehow it’s the left creating anti-semitism in society.

loooool,

QFT.

When are the Tory party going to suspend Boris Johnson?

I'm not disagreeing with you but that doesn't come close to meaning that the right wing lunatics aren't more dangerous if antisemitism becomes more the norm.

Afaics, you're now arguing that if labour is in fact anti-Semitic then it doesn't matter because those who commit hate crimes aren't labour supporters.That's not reasonable is it?

I don't see how replacement theory, which is driving right wing attacks on Jews, is at all related with the global left saying hey maybe Israel isn't treating the Palestinians fairly. I think any sort of equivocation of the two, frankly, is disgusting. Basically what you've said is that any form of criticism of Israel is anti-Semitic, which is obviously ludicrous.

Also, what you've said here, is that the media's insane focus on supposed left-wing anti-semitism is bad because it might serve to embolden right wing anti-semitism. So why not spend all this energy on the right's anti-semitism? Nothing here makes sense, unless you rightly see that this is a political play from the media and the conservative party.

Indeed and it's very reasonable to criticise Israel's policies.

I'm very much part of the left that does so (I take it that so are you). What we don't do is blame jewish people for the actions of Israel but anti-Semitic people frequently do exactly that. That's part of what makes antisemitism a serious problem for jewish people.

Well I am enthusiastically support Labour at this election.

There's a concern that, for instance, a Corbyn Labour government would de-fund the CST (Community Security Trust), which looks after Jewish schools and synagogues and meetings, because McDonnell in the past expressed support for a far-left fringe group, the IJAN (International Jewish Anti-Zionist Network), which defined the CST as 'Zionist', and to Corbynistas -- and you only have to look at what they get up to on Twitter and Facebook, and it's not pretty -- all things Zionist are evil and must be done away with in order to 'build socialism', a Stalinist slogan that Corbynistas are not surprisingly keen on.

De-funding and removal of the CST would have obvious and potentially serious consequences for Anglo-Jews.

ITT we learn that Labour has an institutional anti semitism problem that they are justly getting crucified for in the media, whilst there is relative silence over any Tory racism, because Shah.

Posters such as Elrazor et al have to do a lot more work to get past the very obvious fact that they just dont like Labour because reasons, so will unthinkingly swallow criticism of it because self awareness, who needs it.

On Chomsky

He is highly critical of the policies of Israel towards the Palestinians and its Arab neighbors. His book The Fateful Triangle is considered one of the premier texts on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict among those who oppose Israel's policies in regard to the Palestinians as well as American support for the state of Israel. He has also accused Israel of "guiding state terrorism" for selling weapons to apartheid South Africa and Latin American countries that he characterizes as U.S. puppet states, e.g. Guatemala in the 1980s, as well as U.S.-backed paramilitaries (or, according to Chomsky, terrorists) such as the Nicaraguan Contras. (What Uncle Sam Really Wants, Chapter 2.4) Chomsky characterizes Israel as a "mercenary state", "an Israeli Sparta", and a militarized dependency within a U.S. system of hegemony. He has also fiercely criticized sectors of the American Jewish community for their role in obtaining U.S. support, stating that "they should more properly be called 'supporters of the moral degeneration and ultimate destruction of Israel'" (Fateful Triangle, p. 4). He says of the Anti-Defamation League (ADL):

The leading official monitor of anti-Semitism, the Anti-Defamation League of B'nai B'rith, interprets anti-Semitism as unwillingness to conform to its requirements with regard to support for Israeli authorities. ... The logic is straightforward: Anti-Semitism is opposition to the interests of Israel (as the ADL sees them). ... The ADL has virtually abandoned its earlier role as a civil rights organization, becoming 'one of the main pillars' of Israeli propaganda in the U.S., as the Israeli press casually describes it, engaged in surveillance, blacklisting, compilation of FBI-style files circulated to adherents for the purpose of defamation, angry public responses to criticism of Israeli actions, and so on. These efforts, buttressed by insinuations of anti-Semitism or direct accusations, are intended to deflect or undermine opposition to Israeli policies, including Israel's refusal, with U.S. support, to move towards a general political settlement.[48]

This is the new definition it seems, which is unfortunate because I have may Jewish friends but criticizing IDF injustice would label me an anti-semite under these terms. Donkey to Jerusalem Jesus who was pushed to become the powerful warrior king promised in scripture rebutted the calls to nationalism as he wanted the focus to be on the fact that we all are children of a shared God even though the Hebrews had been custodian of that advanced truth for some time. That simmering belief that they would eventually be the strong nation ruling all others is something definitely Netanyahu plays upon completely absent of the moral responsibility that should accompany a country led and inspired by the idea leading the world. Not going to get into a treatise about satanic philosophy and its prevalence in right wing society but lets say that I feel completely ok with being 100% against Israel while loving its people highjacked by powerful pillars within their society. American christians are brainwashed to love Israel because they think Jesus will return there to establish the true world government. If/when he does return i'm sure he wont be pleased with Benjamin and the gov's actions ostensibly on behalf of Jews who are held hostage by having to side with a bad actor.

W/e. Labour under Corbyn are anti Semitic - people who can't acknowledge this either lack self-awareness, are themselves racist, or both.

Someone explain to me, other than the obvious answer of "because they're ****ing idiots", why the hell zero non-Conservative parties, or their followers, are making even the slightest attempt to push their own agenda positively? It's not going to make the slightest bit of difference to anyone in their own echo chamber, and to everyone else, who are mostly of the default position that all politicians = lying theiving ****s, saying that some of them aren't particularly good is just "yes, we know" and will not prevent people from just drawing a huge cock and balls on the ballot paper

I'm not defending his stupid comments about individuals when he seemingly had no idea of their internal motivations/ leanings. but to think he wants to punish your average jewish citizen is beyond absurd and against what generalized liberalism is for. A section of a minority group can be singled out and not be racist. I am not in favor of black militarism or any group using force to achieve progress real or not. Me saying I am not in favor of Malcom X's black imperialist policies does not make me anti black which they would certainly label me as if that were the case.

FYP.

W/e Ill just believe it as gospel absolutely nails your position on this.

I'd argue against the zero but it's a huge problem for labour to get any positive oxygen for what they're intending to do.

I don't think the interviewers are doing any favours to the electorate by focusing almost 100% on the problems and shutting down any politician who tries to explain anything positive. We repeatedly here 'yes we know what you say you're going to do but ... <insert negative stuff> The reality is the reverse where we hear endlessly about the -ve stuff but little about the polices. i thought Andrew Neil was particularly awful and I don't blame BJ for trying to avoid going on - what's the point?

It was always going to be hard for Labour because of brexit and boris/cummings have made life very difficult with their promises on the NHS.

Somehow Labour have to get on the front foot but I don't know how.

“Give me control of a nation’s money and I care not who makes its laws.” unless he is an anti-semite

There's been about 10 incidents of people shooting up synagogues/Jewish institutions in Europe in the past 10 years (too tired to look up the exact statistics) and AFAIK exactly one of the ten (Halle) was perpetrated by a far-right white supremacist type. From it's all a Jewish conspiracy to OK I lied about it being a Jewish conspiracy but there's not going to be gas chambers to about bullshit.

The "left" proselytises listening to minorites. In the past 4.5 years discussing this tedious topic, I don't think a single person has in good faith asked me how I feel, while I feel that way etc. Since <1/200 Brits is Jewish, I presume many/most of you don't have Jewish friends. The non-Brits probably don't have British Jewish friends. Why haven't these "listeners" reached out me - especially since you know, I pinpointed this as an issue over four years ago ... when Racist Grandpa said Chris Williamson wasn't anti-Semitic I posted that Williamson would say something so anti-Semitic even Labour would expel him ... I said the EHRC would open an investigation into Labour. Like, maybe you thought I was f.o.s at the beginning but given I have a 100% track record, perhaps ... I know more about anti-Semitism than you? Just an idea.

It's almost as if this "listen to minorities" is performative wokeness, to be discarded the moment a minority you dislike is being attacked or the accusations of racism go against your political preferences.

This is excellent. Trump hasn't enacted explicitly discriminatory legislation against black Americans, who higher employment, wages etc. than three years ago. But black folk consider him racist, to consider the GOP institutionally racist, oppose normalisation of racism, find "What legislation has he passed?" "Your wages are higher" etc. offensive. A lot of you would be astonished at how batshit you sound if mutatis mutandis you substitute Racist Grandpa & Jews for Tories & British Muslims or Trump & Black Americans.

p.s

Racist Grandpa's ardent support more likely to be anti-Semitic

Not to brag (proceeds to brag) but I've said before that the modal Labour voter probably isn't more anti-Semitic than the average Tory voter but that the coterie of fanatical Racist Grandpa supports are very, very anti-Semitic - and yet again, correct. So perhaps stop lecturing me? If Labour had listened in good faith to the likes of me 4.5 years ago they wouldn't be in a mess where they risk going into bankruptcy due to being very, very racist.

Really? I think the Tories are messing this up. Particularly with the C4 thing.

I've actually closed out my betfair positions on them to have 340+ seats and most of what I had on them to get a majority and scaled back to just having them get 317.5+ seats.

Obviously I closed out at better odds than I got in at a few weeks back, so I've done it so I still have 1-way bets on the other things.

I'm sort of bearish on Tories. How voters won't get in the booth and say "Man, I HATE Brexit and I HATE Johnson but ... think of those poor Jews. I couldn't vote for a racist party. How could I vote for a many who fellated Hugo Chavez, and this summer spoke at a Hard Left conference on Latin American refugees that failed to once mention Venezuela, the biggest refugee crisis in South American history?". I'd guess a lot of them suck it up and vote Labour. And Johnson isn't impressive.

Don't have strong feelings on that and perhaps I'm swayed by spending 4.5 years wishing Racist Grandpa away and seeing him survive election defeat after election defeat and 10 scandals every month that would have ended Miliband's career. But in a country that probably leans slightly Remain, idk...

edit: don't think anyone gives a **** about the C4 thing.

This is PC madness run amok. People die as a result.

Releasing a convicted terrorist into a community rehab program. Absolute unmitigated lunacy.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-50618744

https://news.google.com/articles/CAI...S&ceid=US%3Aen

And a murdering hero...

Perhaps the focus is too much on the negative, but when the negatives are things like institutional racism, a hopeless Brexit plan and £62bn of uncosted spending commitments, then it's negligent to just handwave these things and focus on the positives as they are just so heavily outweighed by the negatives.

Okay, one lunatic running amok is one too many, but the evidence clearly supports rehabilitation at the population level in reducing reoffending.

It's a valid question to ask whether rehabilitation can really work with terrorists when ideologies are so deeply ingrained, but that should not be determined by one incident.

I disagree but in interviews there should be a balance.

JC (and BJ and most of the rest) would be quite justified in telling some of the interviewers to **** off. They can't do that but they will become more selective, set more condition or simply not turn up.

I hope you're right although we may just have different baselines about what we consider a good result.

Currently I will be very satisfied with denying a tory majority and I think we will struggle to do that. But it's still all to play for and it's a messy picture so there's hope.

Tbf to Johnson he is running over Marr this morning.