Quote:
Originally Posted by IAMTHISNOW
This is a complete dumpster fire of an argument.
Firstly the idea we cant analyse the past and make judgements because we are not perfect now is of course ridiculous, also comparing a sporting event that happens every four years with the systematic, endemic and totally institutionalised racism and misogyny of 200 hundred years ago is again totally absurd and is is indeed the laziest form of whataboutism.
Of course people in 300 hundred years will have something to say about actions in the present, though I think they will be more to do with how we kept nom nom noming on the earths eco system than concerns about one sporting event.
Which by the way there was plenty said about. Maybe just not in your echo chamber.
This does not mean we are presently hypocrites to makes moral judgements about slavery etc.
Also stop sqwaking on about elites, this is me and you discussing this issue, the reach for elites is pure handwaving.
If you are going to make judgements on the past (while simultaneously handwaving away your complicit acceptance of todays pathologies) at least try to get the timeline right. Slavery, mysogyny, racism etc. etc. etc. were around a long time before the Enlightenment, and still exist in various forms today (in their most pernicious forms in the non Western world I might add).
The Enlightenment thinkers were certainly people of their time, but at the same time had insights into humanity (both its dark side and its promise) which allowed them to develop robust, effective institutions that exist today, and which have been able to address some of these pathologies that have been the hallmark of most of human existence.
In my opinion, the cultural elites of today with their cynical deconstructionist ethos show no such insights, and I predict as a consequence nothing effective or durable will ever come about as long as they are steering the ship in the direction they are. I am taking a position and making a prediction on it, and if I am wrong than I am wrong.
As far as progressivism goes, nothing wrong with trying to achieve progress to improve the human condition. But maybe along the way check yourself and audit whether this is actually what is going on.
Last edited by Dunyain; 01-05-2023 at 11:26 PM.