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07-11-2019 , 10:05 AM

#76

spanktehbadwookie

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 19,374

Just heard a report that a cop in the U.S.A made someone stand in a very public place. Look at that bad trump authoritarian influence propagate.

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07-11-2019 , 02:44 PM

#77

Slighted

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 16,874

The National Republican congressional committee sent out emails to grift dumb republicans into buying a Betsy Ross mug and donating. They included a picture of kaep which they artificially darkened to make his skin “blacker”.. lol

Classic gop. The racism is the point.

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07-11-2019 , 05:06 PM

#78

David Sklansky

Administrator

Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 17,153

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rococo

I don't give a **** about Betsy Ross, and I certainly don't want to wear shoes with a flag on them, but I think it's a little silly to equate the 13-star flag with the Confederate flag.

Yes, the 13-star flag is from a time when black people were horrible abused. But it's also from a time when women couldn't vote, debtors' prisons were widespread, spousal rape wasn't even a concept (much less a crime), and child labor laws were nonexistent. I doubt anyone would say that the 13-star flag is emblematic of all those injustices in the early United States.

The Confederate flag is entirely different. No matter what fans of Leonard Skynyrd and the Duke brothers may have said in the 1970s and 1980s, that flag has always been an obvious and unambiguous emblem of racism and slavery, as have statues of confederate soldiers and leaders of the Confederacy.

There is a difference between a flag from 1776 and 1856. It is related to the argument that people shouldn't be judged by today's standards. My view is a compromise. Which is that we can look more and more askance at people who held immoral views as the evidence and the number of people opposing those views pile up. In 1856 most pro slavery people were selfish bad people because the counterarguments had become numerous and strong. That was much less true in 1776.

In the year 2079 wise people will give a pass to those who ate chickens brought up in horrible conditions in 1959. But they will recognize people who did similar practices in 2019 as evil.

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07-12-2019 , 12:05 PM

#79

Rococo

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Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 18,366

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Sklansky

My view is a compromise. Which is that we can look more and more askance at people who held immoral views as the evidence and the number of people opposing those views pile up.

Isn't this the only way to judge historical figures? If we dropped John Adams onto the floor of the Senate this afternoon, I'm sure his views on race would be repugnant.

But his views were extremely progressive for his era, and I think it's OK to credit him with being relatively enlightened for his time.

Similarly, I'm sure we can find plenty of people who sheltered Jews during WWII who would be considered (rightfully) as anti-Semitic by modern lights. But it makes little sense to criticize those people for their anti-Semitism.

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07-12-2019 , 12:26 PM

#80

Victor

banned

Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 73,070

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Sklansky

no man, ppl have known that slavery was wrong forever. we have pretty detailed accounts of Greek, Roman, and Persian history.

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07-12-2019 , 01:13 PM

#81

spanktehbadwookie

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It’s hard to show historical human error and contradiction on a symbol on some shoes. Who knew?

Hey maybe if history warrants that much depth, it’s , um, respectful and thorough to symbolize it in ways which reflect just that?

Confronting slavery denial, it’s that. It’s abstaining from flags on shoes, because the flag in a thorough history media tells the more complete story. Shoes don’t even have context.

George Carlin joked “leave symbols to the symbol-minded” however leave them honest and thorough symbols, and then leave them,- seems a more thoughtful choice.

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07-12-2019 , 04:55 PM

#82

Always Fondling

centurion

Join Date: Nov 2018 Posts: 117

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Sklansky

You are viewing this through the lens of what I assume to be your image of a typical, disinterested white Northerner. However, there were many white people opposed to slavery in the US in 1776.

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Sklansky

In the year 2079 wise people will give a pass to those who ate chickens brought up in horrible conditions in 1959. But they will recognize people who did similar practices in 2019 as evil.

Are you really unable to see how equating slavery with meat-eating is a really loathsome thing to say in public?

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07-12-2019 , 05:12 PM

#83

David Sklansky

Administrator

Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 17,153

Saying two things share a characteristic is not equating them.And the pass I give the commlon man regarding slavery in the 1700s I do not give to the common man I do not give to the more educated back then. In fact I am on record stating the British should have won if they really would have abolished slavery.

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07-13-2019 , 11:40 PM

#84

WaitingForMPJ

banned

Join Date: Jul 2019 Posts: 2,452

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Sklansky

In the year 2079 wise people will give a pass to those who ate chickens brought up in horrible conditions in 1959. But they will recognize people who did similar practices in 2019 as evil.

Liberals and their organic food privilege.

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07-14-2019 , 12:29 AM

#85

microbet

Solar Powered

Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 57,075

This is the first I've heard of this and of course it's because of conservative whining. As far as I know Colin K doesn't own any news media. Where did any of you hear about this story?

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07-15-2019 , 12:11 PM

#86

Rococo

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Quote:

Originally Posted by microbet

Where did any of you hear about this story?

This thread.

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07-16-2019 , 08:51 PM

#87

WaitingForMPJ

banned

Join Date: Jul 2019 Posts: 2,452

Quote:

Originally Posted by microbet

This is the first I've heard of this and of course it's because of conservative whining. As far as I know Colin K doesn't own any news media. Where did any of you hear about this story?

The Gray Lady of course

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nyt...-nike.amp.html

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