Washoe I don’t think you read what I wrote or maybe English is your second language and it’s not coming across.

For example from the vox link you posted:
https://news.yahoo.com/grandmother-6...213216433.html

This is a standard robbery of someone withdrawing cash from a bank or ATM. When you add these types of crimes to “hate crimes” just because they are Asians it distorts statistics by inflating them.

I understand very well every bit, although I dont need to read the article to know this. I will read it later:

If the crimes against a certain group has increasd by 1900% what does it say? Where do you think all those crimes came from? Its not only that, hate crime in general has dropped, only Asian hate crime has gone up significantly. Coincidence? Really? Duh!?? That does not make too much sense.

Ok, so just that everyone understands in simple english:

Let me ask you something: Would you advice Johnny Chan or Maria Ho to take a subway in NY? If not, you might have located the problem. And its a big problem, and it just aint right.

I could tell you that I would not advice a single Asian woman or anyone Asian, especially elders to take a subway in NY right now after all that I just read.

Do you understand now where I am coming from? People are scared, blamed and attacked for a virus that they are just not responsible of. Thats just wrong.

Sure, I would say they should be willing to ride the subway. That 1900% increase number comes from the NYPD database on hate crimes and is mostly a reflection of a low base in 2019. In absolute terms it shows 27 anti-Asian hate crimes for 2020. While that is undoubtedly an undercount of the actual number, in a city over 8 million, and with 1.2 million Asians, that is not that many. And for comparison, there were 119 anti-Jewish, 39 anti-black, and 37 anti-LGBT+ hate crimes in the NYPD database for 2020.

That doesn't reflect what I'm finding when I type this into google: new york asian hate subway.
I'm seing at least 3 different people being attacked on NY subways over the recent days.

The problem is when a society starts ignoring cause and effect relationships it will never get focused on real problems. This case sounds like a pure incel type thing, but just throwing it in the hate crime bucket paints the wrong picture of a society on both fronts. Then things expand to firing - or not hiring a minority gets bucketed as racist even though that was not the cause as it was for pure incompetence. So basically you are intentionally tampering with data and then trying to use that data to make "improvements".

Rushing to judgement when people don't know all the facts is an Internet trend that is unfortunate. And when you do so in the name of a cause or ideology, it doesn't help your cause, and can give the "other side" something to throw back at you, or give those who haven't chosen a side reason to tune you out - the "Boulder shooter must have been white" takes that came out quickly are an example of that. But my point was that in this very specific case where the biggest result of the motive assumptions is a lot of people talking about racism against Asian-Americans, I'm not going to get too worked up about it. I'll admit that's results-oriented thinking, and would probably agree with an argument that the media could have done better.

Yes, violent crime is up in NYC.

An incel that targets specifically Asian Americans is a racist incel.

Does that help?

Why do people keep calling the murderer an incel? That seems contrary to the reporting so far.

I don't think he is. I am pointing out the absurdity of trying to focus on his other motives and ignoring that he clearly used racist criteria in picking his targets.

Whatever his other motives were, he went out of his way to seek out Asian American women to shoot. Is that really in dispute?

In response to a post about violence in NYC, that was responding to a post about violence in NYC?

Absolutely. Far too many geniuses out there that do more harm then good imo

But the value of a judicial judgement is high. Although it make minimal difference to sentence in the usa (it would make more of a difference in some other countires but still maybe not that significant), it's needed to inform the debate on hate speech laws and social media regulation.

For such things like vandalism, graffiti or grave desecration sure, but someone who's prepared to commit mass murder won't be swayed by being hit with a potential hate crime, especially those who actually hate. In such extreme cases (Not just hate crimes, but serial killing, torture-murders etc) again, I think once enough evidence to convict exists, then motive is ultimately irrelevant.

True but so much more attention gets given to mass murder. The increased awareness of hate crimes that comes from the most serious cases may well deter people who would have comitted less serious hate crimes.

I don't think mass shooters or serial killers are swayed by such things tbh. They're already deeply disturbed anyway.

That's not to say that awareness shouldn't be put out about hate criminality either, but motive shouldn't be prioritized in such cases mentioned imo.

Yes I agree with that but someone might be deterred from hate graffiti because of what they learn about the hate crime aspect in a high pofile mass murder murder case.

I dont know about prioitised but the police will be investigating the suspect and if they have find evidence it was hate crime then that should be prosecuted alongside the murders.

Have you been to Atlanta? These massage parlors are easy targets - and they're all Asian.

I think he obviously had some sexual problems which he called “an addiction”.

If he’s gonna pay he has three options that I know of:
A neighborhood where girls walk (cheap and dangerous)
Hiring escorts from online (most expensive)
AMPs which are quasi-legitimate business with store fronts.

In Germany prostitution is legal and the brothels are mostly Eastern European women. Here the store fronts are Asian generally. An interesting quote the police said he loved “god and guns”.

Hard to put yourself in a mass shooters mind but in general they all seem miserable. The sex is a drug but when it’s over he’s back to being miserable. The AMPs are feeding his addiction and making him commit “sin”. They are to blame for his problems. And off he goes... maybe I’m way off.

All the true racist Dylan roof types confess to why they did their crime and typically have a social media trail corroborating their racism. This guy has no trail and hasn’t said he hates Asians, he says he has sex addiction and has a trail of evidence backing that up. Occam’s razor

was he the one that had the facebook posts blaming china for covid or was that the cops? hard to differentiate between these days.

I am going to go out on a limb and guess there were other sex establishments between the three spas the shooter specifically targeted as sources of temptation.

Re hate crime legislation in general, I'll put society's safety at stake first. Ideally I'm not crazy about hate crime legislation as it has undeniable thought crime connotations to it. Pragmatically if it keeps some scumbag off the streets longer, who may not murder but could severely assault, then again I'll go with society's safety. Keeping disturbed dangerous offenders off the streets as long as possible, will protect society's decent and law abiding members

The thought is not a crime on its own. As constructed, "hate crime" just imposes additional penalties for other crimes. "Hate crime" statutes aren't even the only "penalty enhancement" laws on the books.

Many states have laws increasing penalties for crimes against pregnant women. More states have laws with additional sentences for crimes committed while DUI. Many murder statutes have additional degrees for murders committed with particularly egregious violence and malice (whatever they want to call it.) Many states also impose additional penalties on crimes committed with firearms/dangerous weapons.

I for one think there is nothing wrong with imposing additional penalties on crimes committed with racist motivations, especially to protect particularly vulnerable groups.

No different from after 9/11 when people targeted perceived Muslims (I say perceived because many people who were not Muslim got targeted anyway, because people are dumb and will attack anyone for how they look that have nothing to do with who they think they are attacking, like Sikhs)

Suffice to say, Asians have been dealing with racist bullshit all along, just like any other vulnerable group:



This show aired 20 years ago

I'm sure many dont agree with it especially when it come to the hate speech part. That's sort of an aside though as to what matters when we do have crime legislation and regulation