I want to get more into this danmark discussion later, but now this seems to be more important to me.

A guy just in the US just killed about 8 people in 2 spas.
Speechless right now...

"Rallies across the country denounce violence against Asian Americans after Atlanta spa killings"

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2021/03/20/u...day/index.html

Of course ypu guys already knew about this. I just found out and am absolutely disgusted by that mentally deranged individual.

Incel mentality mixed with a self loathing due to religion. Dangerous combo.

There is a very dangerous combo of white nationalism, incel and fundamentalist religion that seems to pop up in various combinations with deadly result in these increasing incidents.

From the article: (and I don't want to confuse anyone), but that's what the guy said

"Long told police he believed he had a sex addiction and that he saw the spas as "a temptation ... that he wanted to eliminate," said Cherokee County sheriff's Capt. Jay Baker on Wednesday. He claimed the attacks weren't racially motivated, Baker said."

"Authorities say they are still investigating the motive in the killings, and that the suspect claimed to investigators that the shooting wasn't racially motivated."

Wtf? Do I believe this? No. Was he a trump voter? We will find out I guess.

I think the question that arises now is, would this have happened without trumps China virus rhetorics or not.


Ps. Cuepee, I'm terrible sorry for the things I said in the meat thread. I hope you forgive me, I was emotionally charged from the cp5 thread.

Why don't you believe this?

If he's a Trump voter, what does that mean?

He already said it had nothing to do with them being Asian. If this was his sole reason for carrying out acts of violence, why not admit to it? He obviously wanted to make a statement, however idiotic and destructive it was. Why not fess up to it being some illogical connection between Covid, Trump and Asians?

Likely because sentencing is lighter for insanity/sex addiction than hate crime.

Dude committed mass murder, his sentencing is either gonna be the needle or a bunch of consecutive life without parole sentences whether he's slapped with a hate crime or not. It's really not going to make any difference.

To be fair, them being Asian was a factor. Can't deny that. According to orthodoxy, that makes it racist because he was asserting power and domination over another racial group in order to oppress them.

With that said, if he had a proclivity for visiting black sex workers, it's likely they would be the ones dead, or white sex workers...

Most of the victims weren't sex workers. You had 3 dead victims over the age of 60, at 63, 69, 74. One of the dead victims was on a date with her husband.

It makes no difference to me whether hate crime designation is applied as its yet another legal loophole that can be gamed but the idea that we just take the suspect's word at motivation is preposterous.

Having a bad day is not an excuse for hate crime.

I agree re suspects being unreliable sources but also bemused as to why a suspect who commits such open mass murder lie about his motive anyway. Again it would be irrelevant whether he got convicted of hate crimes or not as no way is he gonna see the light of day again ever, so it wouldn't be due to attempted lighter sentencing tactics.

Could well be hate motivated also though to clarify or it playing a factor. I think personally when you have a suspect bang to rights such as here, motive is ultimately irrelevant albeit nice to know but ultimately no biggie as only defence with such evidence would be an insanity plea and I doubt a jury would go for that and an insanity plea even if successful wouldn't equate to eventual freedom but indefinite detention until found fit to stand trial. Basically off the streets forever. That's what counts in bottom line terms.

It's not an excuse for any crime.

Again what's in his mind doesn't matter. According to orthodoxy definition of racism, the simple act of him being a white male and committimg an act of opression against POC is what makes it racist, and a hate crime.

I say this because the some of the folks you are arguing with operate under that idea. The law says they need independent proof of hate (something other than the act of murder, i.e. utterance, historical views, etc), but so far, they've haven't found any, they may still, though. I don't think they will find much, since he seemed to visit those places quite often for sex. Maybe he enjoyed having sex with Asians because he hated them.

I do believe they will find evidence he hated women, and saw them as objects.

What do you think perps at the Nuremberg Trials claimed ?

It costs nothing to claim anything aside from hate crime, thus from an EV perspective it makes perfect sense to attempt it.

Let's see how Twitter handles Chinese propaganda...

That cartoon seems pretty accurate and I found what the Baker guy said infuriating even as it was reported.

We are not debating whether this is a hate crime or not. It is almost irrelevant.

Your implication that his fondness for sex with Asian women makes him unlikely to hate Asians is both vile and logically contradictory with your final statement.

By your logic, since he liked to have sex with women, then there is no way he hated women.

If you believe that he is a misogynist and the defining characteristic of his misogyny is seeing women as objects then by definition he saw Asian women as objects. Hate crime statutes are dumb because you have to prove that he only saw Asian women as objects to the exclusion of other women.

For those of you who want to continue this discussion of "is this a hate crime" ?

Have at it :

https://www.chicagotribune.com/natio...124-story.html

https://www.fox6now.com/news/teens-f...rder-of-ee-lee

My god.... This makes me really really sad. I hope you're trolling.

I think the Asian part of the woman is what he liked, or was attracted by. Asian was a feature to him. His own inadequacies likely led him to hate women. Did Ted Bundy hate the whiteness of a woman?

He's the most profiled serial killer in history and they didn't find any evidence of racial animosity toward whites that Im aware of.

The crimes Ted Bundy committed are pretty standard for non-race based serial killing. The crime this guy committed is pretty standard for race based spree killing, whether that ends up being the final consensus or not.

Is your argument basically "he hated women. He saw them as objects. But not Asian women, he liked them, but not quite enough to not shoot them."

By that logic, he targeted the women because they were Asian and the shootings were by definition hate crimes.

"Really bad day" isn't an excuse. "Sex addiction" doesn't explain why he bypassed lingerie shops, strip clubs, and other sex establishments just to specifically target Asian massage parlors.

You're twisting yourself into knots trying to deny you share some of the prejudices that men like Baker and the shooter have. Nobody has ever said that Ted Bundy was having a really bad day when he killed people.

Also this whole discussion shouldn't just be "in other news" like it's just some small storyline deserving less attention.

I don't disagree he targeted Asians. We agree on that. The why doesn't matter to prove racism, right? The only requirement was that he sought out asians, for it be racist, right?

And no one is making excuses but him, bro. You seem to have been misled by vox. We are discussing why he did it.

Bad acts that are done by ten percent of racists but only by one percent of non racists are important subjects. Those that are committed by .00001% of racists and 0% of non racists are not.