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To all who claim to love democracy To all who claim to love democracy

09-20-2020 , 05:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slighted
so what happens when one side just says **** you i'm doing what i want and destroying the norms.. are the dems supposed to just go, welp that's republicans for ya, they cheat, lie and, defraud the country every time they have a little bit of power, guess we'll just wait and go back to normal next time, over and over again like some iterated prisoner dilemma fail..
Both parties are pretty much equal at corruption and dishonesty.

Mr. Obama went "against the norm" with his use of executive orders, but what he did was not against the law.

"Norms" are not "laws."
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09-20-2020 , 05:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Slighted
tolerance of what? millions of people being discriminated against through ridiculous religious based rulings from a conservative entrenched supreme court?



tolerance of millions of women losing reproductive rights so some people can feel good about their sky man?
1. "Reproductive Rights" = "The right to kill unborn babies."

2. Who is "sky man?"
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09-20-2020 , 05:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Slighted
if you're saying the "respect" for democracy should just be not to say you want a civil war, im fine with that..

but if/when the dems take over i would want DRASTIC actions and think a majority of people would support them(DEMOCRACY)..

things like, statehood for dc/pr, an end to "for life" appointments(i would prefer a single 18yr term with no repeat rotating so one justice is up every two years), 3 term limit on senators, bans on congress people becoming lobbyists, legislation to limit money in elections, working towards ending the electoral college
All of the above are worthy of serious consideration, in my opinion.
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09-20-2020 , 05:56 AM
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Originally Posted by lagtight
1. "Reproductive Rights" = "The right to kill unborn babies."

2. Who is "sky man?"
funny when it helps you, you find easy analogy (1) but are on the heavy trolling side when it doesn't suits you (2).
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09-20-2020 , 06:00 AM
The government controlling women's bodies, telling its citizens who they can love and marry, forcing your religious beliefs on other citizens etc.etc.

30% of American taking the other 70% of this country back to the 50's America = Gloves come off


DC statehood, no filibuster, appoint 3 SCOTUS judges, pass voting rights act, climate change, tax the super rich, corporations must pay a minimum tax.
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09-20-2020 , 06:46 AM
Garland was judge with wide support on both sides of the political aisle, blocking his confirmation was done with a complete lack of respect of democracy. It wasn't blocked "democratically", it was blocked with process in committee, in order to ensure that a vote couldn't take place in full assembly - because they knew the vote would pass with great ease.

And it was done in order to later ensure that SCOTUS judges with the most minimal of support could pass, even going so far as to remove the rule that required more than minimum majority for SCOTUS appointments.

If you "love democracy", this should disgust you. And it shouldn't be a question on "who did it" or "who started it", it should be an observation that it is done by congress and that things are completely and utterly messed up.

Last edited by tame_deuces; 09-20-2020 at 06:52 AM.
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09-20-2020 , 07:14 AM
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Originally Posted by goofyballer
All of our posting can be safely ignored, including yours, this is a forum where a bunch of people bullshit each other over things we have no control over. Do you think your posting should be taken seriously? Or IHIV's?
If someone is not responding to you becasue they believe you to be a manipulative narcissist, it's likely not a good look to essentially call them a coward looking for a safespace when they ignore you.
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09-20-2020 , 07:37 AM
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Originally Posted by campfirewest
Because they have terrible ideas.
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Originally Posted by Montrealcorp
And they are far far from representing the majority ....
But they believe what they think is the norm , shrug .
Sorry, sometimes you win and sometimes you lose and you can't expect to win every time regardless of the quality of your ideas so none of this really matters when it comes to should they be forced to take an L
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09-20-2020 , 07:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tame_deuces
Garland was judge with wide support on both sides of the political aisle, blocking his confirmation was done with a complete lack of respect of democracy. It wasn't blocked "democratically", it was blocked with process in committee, in order to ensure that a vote couldn't take place in full assembly - because they knew the vote would pass with great ease.

And it was done in order to later ensure that SCOTUS judges with the most minimal of support could pass, even going so far as to remove the rule that required more than minimum majority for SCOTUS appointments.

If you "love democracy", this should disgust you. And it shouldn't be a question on "who did it" or "who started it", it should be an observation that it is done by congress and that things are completely and utterly messed up.
I disagree. The US Senate is a check on the Executive Branch. While we may have contempt or disagreement for the political motives behind whatever action is taken, it's a fact of the US political machine that political motivation has always been and always will be behind these moves. I know the loud mouths want to say the GOP is worse than the DNC, but that's bullshit becasue they agree when it's the DNC doing **** like this, so they don't see it as that bad. I think the naivety and outrage at this reality is not real.

If anything, this signifies the importance of winning elections, both Congressional and for the POTUS. Once again, Democrats don't want to appeal to anyone other than their base, or they are stuck up their own assess. This is why they lose elections. The voters installed a GOP-led senate. It disgust you that the GOP is doing things that favor the GOP voters?

Last edited by itshotinvegas; 09-20-2020 at 07:47 AM.
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09-20-2020 , 07:49 AM
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Originally Posted by itshotinvegas
I disagree. The US Senate is a check on the Executive Branch.
That's how it was conceived, that's not what it is.
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09-20-2020 , 07:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by itshotinvegas
I disagree. The US Senate is a check on the Executive Branch. While we may have contempt or disagreement for the political motives behind whatever action is taken, it's a fact of the US political machine that political motivation has always been and always will be behind these moves. I know the loud mouths want to say the GOP is worse than the DNC, but that's bullshit becasue they agree when it's the DNC doing **** like this, so they don't see it as that bad. I think the naivety and outrage at this reality is not real.

If anything, this signifies the importance of winning elections, both Congressional and for the POTUS. Once again, Democrats don't want to appeal to anyone other than their base, or they are stuck up their own assess. This is why they lose elections. The voters installed a GOP-led senate. It disgust you that the GOP is doing things that favor the GOP voters?

What were they checking with MG ?
How was he unfit for the job ?

Remember the president gets to pick who he wants, the senate advises and consents, they don't get to pick who they want.

How was the stealing of a SCOTUS pick not an open display of disdain for our democracy ?
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09-20-2020 , 08:07 AM
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Originally Posted by RFlushDiamonds
What were they checking with MG ?
How was he unfit for the job ?

Remember the president gets to pick who he wants, the senate advises and consents, they don't get to pick who they want.

How was the stealing of a SCOTUS pick not an open display of disdain for our democracy ?
Putting conservative judges on the bench is at the core of the GOP platform. They were voted into power. They take steps to see conservative judges are put on the bench. It's a stunningly clear example of what occurs in a Democratic Republic.
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09-20-2020 , 08:24 AM
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Originally Posted by itshotinvegas
If anything, this signifies the importance of winning elections, both Congressional and for the POTUS. Once again, Democrats don't want to appeal to anyone other than their base, or they are stuck up their own assess. This is why they lose elections. The voters installed a GOP-led senate. It disgust you that the GOP is doing things that favor the GOP voters?
A minority of voters installed the GOP Senate, just like a minority of voters installed the President and no voters installed the Supreme Court. Biden is like 50/50 with a sustained 3 point lead and is something like 75/25 with a sustained 7 point lead. Democrats have already reached out beyond their base and beyond the majority of voters. Stop it with the pathetic mewing about "why won't the Democrats win me over?".
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09-20-2020 , 08:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Huehuecoyotl
A minority of voters installed the GOP Senate, just like a minority of voters installed the President and no voters installed the Supreme Court. Biden is like 50/50 with a sustained 3 point lead and is something like 75/25 with a sustained 7 point lead. Democrats have already reached out beyond their base and beyond the majority of voters. Stop it with the pathetic mewing about "why won't the Democrats win me over?".
That's bullshit. The DNC can compete for those voters.The DNC can't sell their ideas. That's not because they system is stacked against them. It's because they are not convincing. Maybe if they stopped calling everyone on the right racist...but what do I know.
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09-20-2020 , 08:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by itshotinvegas
Putting conservative judges on the bench is at the core of the GOP platform. They were voted into power. They take steps to see conservative judges are put on the bench. It's a stunningly clear example of what occurs in a Democratic Republic.
The will of the people are what is important in a Democratic Republic.


The vast majority of American Citizens don't want the government controlling what a women can do with her body. The government telling its citizens who the can love or marry. Getting rid of pre-existing conditions in a pandemic. They hear the case right after the election. Voting rights, racial inequality etc. The public is in a different place than conservative judges.


30%-35% of America does not get to dictate who they love, control their body and how blacks are treated. We are not going back to the 50's. The vast majority don't what that to happen,
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09-20-2020 , 08:33 AM
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Originally Posted by BigRedChief
The will of the people are what is important in a Democratic Republic.


The vast majority of American Citizens don't want the government controlling what a women can do with her body. The government telling its citizens who the can love or marry. Getting rid of pre-existing conditions in a pandemic. They hear the case right after the election. Voting rights, racial inequality etc. The public is in a different place than conservative judges.


30%-35% of America does not get to dictate who they love, control their body and how blacks are treated. We are not going back to the 50's. The vast majority don't what that to happen,
Again, bullshit. Go earn their vote. Tell them why your idea is better and convince them (remind them Democrats have led most metro area cities where minorities live, and the Democrats are supporters and enablers of systemic racism (including purportedly racist PD's) for decades, while calling these rural voters "racist" over and over again.
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09-20-2020 , 08:37 AM
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Originally Posted by itshotinvegas
That's bullshit. The DNC can compete for those voters.The DNC can't sell their ideas.
They already did! And they won! They seem to have the majority of voters! They obviously can't win a supermajority of voters but no one in an industrial democracy is expected to.
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09-20-2020 , 08:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Huehuecoyotl
They already did! And they won! They seem to have the majority of voters! They obviously can't win a supermajority of voters but no one in an industrial democracy is expected to.
Stop thinking it's not the United States.

Quote:
In the United States, a state is a constituent political entity, of which there are currently 50. Bound together in a political union, each state holds governmental jurisdiction over a separate and defined geographic territory and shares its sovereignty with the federal government.
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09-20-2020 , 09:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by itshotinvegas
Stop thinking it's not the United States.
That's exactly what people are saying. The structure of the US electoral system favors one party who then write the rules to favor itself even more so that the other party must win more and more votes in order to win, making its odds of winning less and less.

Which is bad, but what's worse is listening to the most coddled voters in the world outside a dictatorship tell people that they should have to win the sea doo dealership owners who want to see people executed by firing squads or else 'them's the breaks'

Last edited by Huehuecoyotl; 09-20-2020 at 09:10 AM.
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09-20-2020 , 09:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huehuecoyotl
That's exactly what people are saying. The structure of the US electoral system favors one party who then write the rules to favor itself even more so that the other party must win more and more votes in order to win, making its odds of winning less and less.

Which is bad, but what's worse is listening to the most coddled voters in the world tell people that they should have to win the sea doo dealership owners who want to see people executed by firing squads or else 'them's the breaks'
Go win Wyoming's Senate seats instead of complaining about how you need to change the rules because you can't do that. But yeah, you all don't like the state system which is at the bedrock of our nation, the constitution, as indicative of the name and the constitution. It was never intended to be a homogenous nation, but a union of states with their own governments and representatives. It's not surprising the D's support federal overreach into state voter prerogatives. There is no way I would live in CA, but the DNC wants to make sure CA values are Wyoming's values. The state system was meant to be as check on the feds. You don't like that check for some reason.

Last edited by itshotinvegas; 09-20-2020 at 09:26 AM.
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09-20-2020 , 09:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by itshotinvegas
Again, bullshit. Go earn their vote. Tell them why your idea is better and convince them
Fact check: Hillary Clinton convinced 3 million more Americans than Trump that her and the Democrats ideas were better.
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09-20-2020 , 09:28 AM
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Originally Posted by BigRedChief
Fact check: Hillary Clinton convinced 3 million more Americans than Trump that her and the Democrats ideas were better.
Fact Check: States representatives elect POTUS and Senators, state voters elect those representatives and senators, not the national popular vote. You need to win states. It's been that way since the start. There is nothing un-democratically un-republic about this. We are the United STATES, and the state system being a bedrock of our nation, and a check on centralized power.

Last edited by itshotinvegas; 09-20-2020 at 09:48 AM.
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09-20-2020 , 09:38 AM
...


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By the end of the twentieth century, a number of efforts were being made to curtail the broad power of the federal government. For example, in National League of Cities v. Usery, 426 U.S. 833, 96 S. Ct. 2465, 49 L. Ed. 2d 245 (1976), the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that Congress had exceeded its power to regulate interstate commerce when it extended federal MINIMUM WAGE and overtime standards to state and local governments. Determination of state government employees' wages and hours is one of the "attributes of sovereignty attaching to every state government," attributes that "may not be impaired by Congress." Less than ten years later, however, the Court overruled National League in Garcia v. San Antonio Metropolitan Transit Authority, 469 U.S. 528, 105 S. Ct. 1005, 83 L. Ed. 2d 1016 (1985). Nevertheless, the 5–4 majority in Garcia and the Court's difficulty in articulating a coherent Tenth Amendment JURISPRUDENCE have left this area of states' rights muddled.

The 1980s saw a major shift in government policy. President RONALD REAGAN agreed with the public that the federal government was becoming too involved in state government affairs. As a result, a major focus of his administration was to reduce the size and power of the federal government. States were given more authority to experiment with policy initiatives, especially social programs, which had previously been directed from Washington. Subsequent administrations followed suit. In the early 2000s, however, political analysts commented that a new trend was afoot: both Republicans and Democrats were pushing for federal laws that would PREEMPT state laws, especially state laws that attempted to regulate financial corporations and other types of business.



Read more: States' Rights - Further Readings - Federal, Government, Court, and Power - JRank Articles https://law.jrank.org/pages/10488/St...#ixzz6YaaskPBC

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The April 25 federal court order restraining the federal government from punishing “sanctuary jurisdictions” for declining to help enforce federal immigration policy has been justly hailed as an example of the judiciary’s role in enforcing the Constitution. But it also shows that the Constitution’s vertical checks and balances — federalism — play a critical role both in protecting local autonomy and in containing federal overreach. https://www.aclu.org/blog/immigrants...nts-arent-just
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09-20-2020 , 09:43 AM
People seem to have forgotten that Rs were on record when it was assumed Hilldog would win that they were planning to block her nomination too
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09-20-2020 , 09:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by itshotinvegas
Fact Check: States representatives elect POTUS and Senators, state voters elect those representatives and senators, not the national popular vote. You need to win states. It's been that way since the start. There is nothing un-democratically un-republic about this. We are the United STATES.
Sure there is. Just like you don't want California and New York deciding whats best for the rest of the country, we dont want South Dakota, Utah etc. deciding whats best for us.


Regardless of the rules. Your point was to make your case, Convince them to vote for your party. 3 million more Americans did. You need a new talking point. Go check Fox News and come back when you got one.
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