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Ahmaud Arbery Killing -- 3 Guilty of Murder Ahmaud Arbery Killing -- 3 Guilty of Murder

05-08-2020 , 08:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RFlushDiamonds
Doesn't that make it seem like he was jogging.
If he were running away from vehicles chasing him on the road wouldn't he run off the road and cut through someplace to take the advantage of the vehicle away ?

Meh, I don't know anything except what we all see in the video.

But I hear he wasn't wearing the latest suburban jogging fashion and that's a crime too. lol
I was referring to this analysis from detective dipshit:

Quote:
Originally Posted by somigosaden
And I've also seen tons of people acting like he was just defending himself as any reasonable person would do when accosted by men with guns. If two guys with guns are shouting at me to stop and that they want to talk to me or that they've called the cops, and then I see them stopped 30 yards up the road, I'm not going to run TOWARD THEIR TRUCK, instead of, say, running IN THE OPPOSITE DIRECTION, or even, PERPENDICULAR TO THE ROAD.

Last edited by d2_e4; 05-08-2020 at 08:44 PM.
05-08-2020 , 08:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by itshotinvegas
It is clear. Just read the aggravated assault law.





The act is chasing the guy with a gun.
Even if everything was 'lawful' doesn't mean it's a good idea. There's a reason why we created professional police forces and try and dissuade posses
05-08-2020 , 08:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rococo
Maybe you can point us to the evidence that shows he was burglarizing a construction site or that he had stolen fishing equipment 30 days earlier. I obviously can't know for sure what he was doing, but you seem quite sure, so I'd be curious to see the evidence.
It does not matter. Even if he committed a crime right in front of the two wannabe heroes, there was no crime being committed when this went down, except for the wannabees getting a gun, which made their chase unlawful.
05-08-2020 , 08:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rococo
Maybe you can point us to the evidence that shows he was burglarizing a construction site or that he had stolen fishing equipment 30 days earlier. I obviously can't know for sure what he was doing, but you seem quite sure, so I'd be curious to see the evidence.
The original DA that dropped the case said there was such evidence. Of course, whether that person's word should be taken at face value is an entirely different issue. At this point I definitely would not take his word at face value. But I tend not to take anything at face value, especially when it is coming from media or a lawyer.
05-08-2020 , 08:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by somigosaden
If two guys with guns are shouting at me to stop and that they want to talk to me or that they've called the cops, and then I see them stopped 30 yards up the road, I'm not going to run TOWARD THEIR TRUCK, instead of, say, running IN THE OPPOSITE DIRECTION, or even, PERPENDICULAR TO THE ROAD. I also think—if I weren't engaged in criminal activity—CALL THE POLICE MYSELF SINCE GUYS WITH GUNS ARE HARRASSING ME.
Let me get this straight. You think he attacked guys with guns because he was a burglar, but if he hadn't been a burglar, he would have run in the opposite direction or whatever. That doesn't even make sense. I'm guessing that unarmed burglars and unarmed non-burglars would behave pretty similarly in this circumstance. Burglars generally have the same aversion to dying as non-burglars.
05-08-2020 , 08:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by itshotinvegas
It does not matter. Even if he committed a crime right in front of the two wannabe heroes, there was no crime being committed when this went down, except for the wannabees getting a gun, which made their chase unlawful.
Agreed.
05-08-2020 , 09:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rococo
Maybe you can point us to the evidence that shows he was burglarizing a construction site or that he had stolen fishing equipment 30 days earlier. I obviously can't know for sure what he was doing, but you seem quite sure, so I'd be curious to see the evidence.
He didn't commit any crimes, as far as I know, but he did peek inside the window of a house that was under construction, his lawyer confirmed this, but he didn't burglarize anything. I do not think the three perps saw him peer into the empty house, they just saw him "hauling ass". But yea, I'd like to see somigo try to back up even half of the things he's saying.
05-08-2020 , 09:30 PM
Ahmaud isn't the one on trial here but to those pointing to Ahmaud's past, there are limitations to what you can use in a court of law. I'm no lawyer, but I'm guessing his past convictions will hold no bearing on this case whatsoever.

Quote:
Character evidence: Criminal trial
Character evidence offered by the prosecution
In the United States, character evidence is inadmissible in a criminal trial if first offered by the prosecution as circumstantial evidence to show that a defendant is likely to have committed the crime with which he or she is charged—the prosecution may not, in other words, initiate character evidence that shows defendant's propensity to commit a crime. However the prosecution may introduce character evidence for certain limited purposes after the defendant does so—after the defendant has "opened the door"—through the permissible methods and purposes explained below in "Character evidence offered by the defendant," to rebut what defendant tried showing through character evidence, and to "offer evidence of the defendant's same trait."[4]

FRE 404, in addition to dictating character evidence's permissible use in federal courts, also bars the prosecution's admission of "crimes, wrongs, or other acts"[5] to prove the character of a person in order to show action in conformity therewith (propensity). Evidence of other crimes, wrongs or acts is available for "non-character purposes," such as motive, opportunity, intent, preparation, plan, knowledge, identity, or absence of mistake or accident. In a criminal prosecution, the defendant can request to receive notice of this type of evidence if the prosecution intends to admit it at trial. [6]

Note that under California Evidence Code ("CEC") §1101(b), in addition to proving MIMIC elements, the prosecution may admit evidence of a victim's prior sexual conduct in a case brought for an unlawful sexual act or attempted unlawful sexual act, to show that the defendant "did not reasonably and in good faith believe that the victim consented."[7]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Character_evidence
05-08-2020 , 10:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by somigosaden
.... The criminal burglar died as a result of his own stupid and violent criminal actions and the two law-abiding citizens should be fully exonerated.
At least we can agree that these two will be given the chance to be found not guilty, if that is what you mean by “fully exonerated”, by a jury of their peers in both a criminal and civil proceeding. I don’t think their odds are very good...
05-08-2020 , 10:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelhus100
He was being chased by 2 cars. The car recording was chasing him too. And it appears that person may be charged with murder also.

As to why he decided to charge the guy with the shotgun instead of running into the woods, I don't know his thought process. Maybe in the moment he decided he couldn't really navigate running off-road in untied Timberlands and jean shorts that were falling down, so he decided to make a stand.
Video dude probably thought he was filming their exoneration. He's probably still puzzled Eventually it'll sink in. No video and these guys probably never get in any trouble.
05-08-2020 , 10:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bacalaopeace
Y'all have got to understand that Brunswick is the deepest most foul smelling part of the Georgia swamps. If you aren't from down there you probably can't really judge just how racist these gentleman surely are. The 64 year old one is old enough to remember when folks down there went out shooting at black people just for fun.

Some of y'all blathering on about the criminal record the victim might have and stand your ground.

When some redneck crazies with guns in a pickup run you down, you have a right to stand your ground. When someone points a gun, that's an assault and a threat of deadly violence, and you have a right to stand your ground (a moral right at any rate). And it doesn't matter how many things a person might have robbed if he's unarmed and running he's not the ****ing cause of the situation mother****ers.

Some of you are just stupid, racist mother****ers defending stupid racist mother****ers.

Thank you. Saved me writing a post

FWIW FB has been worse than usual the last couple of days. People really showing their true ideologies
05-09-2020 , 12:23 AM
As the forum’s confirmed #1 centrist, let us have the patience and trust in the justice system to let the discovery process play out. If the case goes to trial let’s have the patience and wisdom to have the judge assigned to the case preside, have the prosecution make their case, the defendant make their defense, and have the jury render their decision.
05-09-2020 , 12:51 AM
Lol
05-09-2020 , 12:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by adios
As the forum’s confirmed #1 centrist, let us have the patience and trust in the justice system to let the discovery process play out. If the case goes to trial let’s have the patience and wisdom to have the judge assigned to the case preside, have the prosecution make their case, the defendant make their defense, and have the jury render their decision.
Sure. But based on the information available so far its looking pretty tough for the defendents.
05-09-2020 , 01:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rococo
You cited a post from Ngo for the proposition that "Arbery is no angel." It's pretty hard to interpret that post as a criticism of Ngo. And it's even harder to avoid interpreting that post as speculation that Arbery was doing something wrong that caused him to get shot.
What's really hard is comprehending your level of ******ation. I would have expected that from other people but not from you.
05-09-2020 , 03:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by adios
As the forum’s confirmed #1 centrist, let us have the patience and trust in the justice system to let the discovery process play out. If the case goes to trial let’s have the patience and wisdom to have the judge assigned to the case preside, have the prosecution make their case, the defendant make their defense, and have the jury render their decision.
Not a centrist but I'd agree that the good roles of the public in politics of crime are:

a) about how the justice system works - laws, process etc etc
and
b) that cases are correctly and fairly subjected to the justice system.

Trial by public is a disastrous idea.
05-09-2020 , 03:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by adios
As the forum’s confirmed #1 centrist, let us have the patience and trust in the justice system to let the discovery process play out. If the case goes to trial let’s have the patience and wisdom to have the judge assigned to the case preside, have the prosecution make their case, the defendant make their defense, and have the jury render their decision.

Fancy yourself a reverse Atticus Fitch eh?
05-09-2020 , 04:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by somigosaden
Another glib response from someone infected with the liberal mind virus.

I'll help you out: two law-abiding citizens told a criminal burglar to stop and he attacked them and they lawfully defended themselves. The criminal burglar died as a result of his own stupid and violent criminal actions and the two law-abiding citizens should be fully exonerated.
It's amazing how you perceive some to be law abiding citizens and others to be criminal burglars without the benefit of due process. There's no law against running in jeans and your oulda-shoulda-woulda- comments opined from your decidedly comfortable safe vantage point are very easy to say, different story when you're confronted by two armed men, with seconds to react before you're potentially shot. We also don't know the purpose of the car behind Mr Arbery with the driver filming or how Mr Arbery perceived it..

They felt there was a suspected burglar they shoulda waited for the cops instead of engaging in vigilantism. The fact that one's in the back while the other's driving and both were armed highlights how they were looking for a confrontation. The only merit to your post- which is unwitting on your part as I suspect you're mentioning it for your own very specific reason, is people calling it a lynching.Mr Arbery's father can get a pass saying this as his son has been gunned down, but I don't think cases like this should be tinged with emotive hypberbole, especially considering the racial issues in America.
But again I reckon you've your own reasons for saying this.
Or hopefully you're simply trolling in poor taste.
05-09-2020 , 06:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelhus100
This is the part that was unclear. I am sure it is in CA or NY, but in Georgia is it? And it seems that is what you would need for it to be a murder charge. That someone died while you were breaking the law. And since the current DA (or state attorney?) is charging them with murder I guess it seems that is what they are going to argue. So we will find out. And of course once it has gotten this political good luck finding an impartial jury.
Georgia Code:
§ 16-11-102 - Pointing or aiming gun or pistol at another
O.C.G.A. 16-11-102 (2010)
16-11-102. Pointing or aiming gun or pistol at another

A person is guilty of a misdemeanor when he intentionally and without legal justification points or aims a gun or pistol at another, whether the gun or pistol is loaded or unloaded.
05-09-2020 , 06:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rococo
Are you from Glynn county? Or somewhere else in Georgia?
I am not from Glynn county (but I have been there). But the swamps in Alabama, North Florida, South Georgia is all pretty much the same. I love it, would love to grow old down there, but there are some sick people down there.
05-09-2020 , 06:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rococo
It sounds like you grew up somewhere in the Southeast, in which case you know that your previous post was a wild exaggeration. Maybe 1% of the residents of Glynn County have skinned a possum. Maybe the same percentage opened up a back account mainly to get a .22. Buying guns at Walmart or KMart, on the other hand, is definitely a thing. That's pretty much where you go to buy a hunting rifle if you live in that sort of area.

I also think you may have some delusions about how different rural Idaho is from rural Georgia.

That said, I agree that it is LOL to focus more on Arbery's background than on the McMichaels's backgrounds, especially given that the McMichaels were the ones riding around in a truck confronting people with guns.

I won't be the least bit surprised if we learn the McMichaels are racist good ole boys, but it serves no purpose to promote the idea that the South, even the rural South, is like the set of Deliverance.
Of course it was an exaggeration. And yes, the crazies in eastern Oregon and Idaho are pretty similar.

But some folks are acting like the big issue here is whether the dead guy was wearing timberlands ... Somebody needs to shake these *******s. No one wondering why the McMichaels are chasing him with a gun.

And I'm not that old, but where I grew up people got beat with broken bones in race fights and the hunting black people for fun part is real from the 1950s, at least it was real where my father lived. And deep deep racism was still around for sure up in the mountains in the 90s. I remember multiple people telling me they hated Atlanta because of all the "n*****s". They tell me those things because I look and sound like a backwoods cracker too.

Things have changed but they haven't. This case is a good example.
05-09-2020 , 07:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjjou812
At least we can agree that these two will be given the chance to be found not guilty, if that is what you mean by “fully exonerated”, by a jury of their peers in both a criminal and civil proceeding. I don’t think their odds are very good...
I think they walk
05-09-2020 , 08:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Victor
I think they walk
Maybe but charging them with murder is the proper first step. Maybe one guy pleads to a negligent manslaughter charge in the end or the videographer gives evidence of intent to nail the shooter on a higher charge. This needs to play out past the initial investigation interviews with the suspects. Is it even clear how many guns were fired or which shot killed him?
05-09-2020 , 08:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjjou812
Maybe but charging them with murder is the proper first step. Maybe one guy pleads to a negligent manslaughter charge in the end or the videographer gives evidence of intent to nail the shooter on a higher charge. This needs to play out past the initial investigation interviews with the suspects. Is it even clear how many guns were fired or which shot killed him?
I would have to look carefully at the Georgia statutes on homicide to have a real opinion on what charges would be most likely to stick with these guys.

As for the facts, I suspect that these idiots didn't jump in the truck with a specific plan to hunt and kill Arbery. If that had been the plan, I doubt they would have called the cops. More likely, they grabbed their guns and decided to play Billy Jack without a well thought out plan. When they confronted Arbery, the situation didn't go down like it does in the movies. That's not a surprise. People get scared when you do extremely reckless things like chase and confront them with guns.

My gut instinct is that they could be charged with felony murder if their attempt to detain Arbery at gunpoint was, indeed, a felony under Georgia law. If their attempt to detain Arbery at gunpoint was not a felony (LOL Georgia, if so), then a prosecutor might have a significantly easier time proving manslaughter than proving murder.
05-09-2020 , 08:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bacalaopeace
I am not from Glynn county (but I have been there). But the swamps in Alabama, North Florida, South Georgia is all pretty much the same. I love it, would love to grow old down there, but there are some sick people down there.
I'm different than you. Most of the truly memorable characters I know are from down there, but I didn't love it, and I certainly don't want to grow old down there.

I strongly agree that South Alabama, North Florida, and South Georgia are pretty much the same.

      
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