Trump had as part of his campaign platform that he would move troops out of Afghanistan while Biden would keep him there.

Actual blame isn’t on Biden or Trump, it belongs with this guy and his presidency.




Also maybe more so we can put the blame with the foreign policy of Reagan and there support of religious fighters in Afghanistan. We sent this guy there with a bunch of missiles.

^^^you just can't help yourself; have to insert some crazy every other post

Yep. A lot of things from the Bush presidency continue to reverberate.

The terrorists were Saudi and we ended up killing their leader in Pakistan but we never attacked those countries

Not sure how Biden stays on vacation?

The war was an idiotic exercise in nation-building that was clearly doomed from the start. Of course Bush deserves the blame for sticking America’s dick in an unwinnable quagmire. Trying to pin this on Obama or even Trumpnis absurd.

Our people are experiencing a hugely dangerous situation. Understand the American made heavy weaponry the Taliban have right now in massive quantities. Our soldiers and diplomats could be massacred whenever the Taliban choose but they’re choosing to let us leave. Every one of our planes and helicopters could come under fire at any moment.

The current chain of command has to answer for what’s happening right now. The decision to stay for 20 years then when to leave is different. This is an ongoing battlefield disaster.

Yeah wtf have they been doing, good f question. Id like to know too. They pumped 2 trillion dollars into it, for what? No other country ever in the history of human kind has received that much money.

It must be a veeery important counrtry, apparently the most important country in the world.

And it can all be undone in a matter of days? wtf? Biggest punt in history imo.

Yes I agree with Lozen on all of this. The whole Bush Middle East policy was a fiasco and we’re all paying the price to this day.

Thank you shuffle, that actually makes sense.
I wouldnt blame bush alone either, obama, trump and biden are all to blame if any president is to be blamed at all.

lol, the Iraq War was also sold to us as a war of self defense. WMDs, yellowcake, mushroom clouds, any of that ring a bell? Of course it had Jack-all to do with defending the US just like our decades of nation-building in Afghanistan had dick to do with stopping terror attacks.

BTW do any of you guys know why Bin Laden was so pissed at us anyways? Ive seen some docs about him. He was not an idiot, and he wasnt just an ******* either. He was legit pissed off at the Americans.

I cant recall the exact reasoning behind him going berserk but I can tell you he had his reasons.


The Bin Laden family is one of the richests in the country. He was a billionaire. Why the f is a billinaire not living the dolce vita and prefers bombing americans? That is the question imo.

A day after the 911 attack, I think about 10 private jets with members of the Bin Laden family left the United States out of fear of a backlash. (They did not have anything to do with it other than having

the same name and being part of the family) What has this to do with anything? It shows you how f powerful this family is.

So my point is, the us did some serious ****ign with the east, which pissed Bin Laden and a few others. So I dont think you can argue with afghanistan had to be invaded. We had to not stick our nose into

everything and things would have been a lot better by now probably.

Oh yeah, but we had to **** with the taliban, and when you play with fire you get burned. If we had not interfered they would have flown planes into the twin towers?! I dont think so.

Its the good old saying, action have consequences, and the US thought their actions had no consequences or consequences that they didnt care about. They wanted to keep the russians in check,

short sighted? Maybe. But the results were forseable and were predicted by every idiot on the steet.

Ha I thought you blocked me after I called you out for your creepy fascination with under aged looking women. Shuffles is going through a mid-life crisis and has lost any semblance of reason or common sense.

You’re a fool if you don’t think the bulk of the blame for what happened in Afghanistan doesn’t fall on the Middle East foreign policy of Bush and his presidency.

It’s somewhat of a relief that you don’t like my posting.

Shuffle, thanks to this convo I refreshed my memory a bit. You guys need to understand the whole picture. The Americans are f with an entire nation of people, a nation that is much older and has one of the oldest cultures in the world. Of course they are not only sitting by and letting them rape them in their own country.

- The US is supporting Israel in murdering the Palestines.

- The US set up shop in the middle of their country with heavy arms and orders to boss them around fight and capture the leaders.

- you can't be that naive and think this is not a punch into a bees nest.


This is an interview with bin Laden. Around min 6 he tells you exactly why he is doing what he was doing. And what drove him. It's mindboggeling I know. But he says the real terrorists are the US. Listen closely how he says Israel is bombing children in the middle east and the USA is saying nothing. The US are stealing their resources he says. Wouldn't be the first time the US does that. Like I said I think he had his reasons. I'm not saying I agree with the militant way he was doing things.

I do know actually, yes. He was annoyed that, from Desert Storm on, there were infidel US forces in Saudi Arabia, which he fetishised as 'holy' because it was his country and it's got Mecca in it. Just the usual nationalist-religious-sectarian hate kick, really.

This is a bit different to N Korea. The Koreans aren't bombing their neighbours. And they are not fighting over land any more. This is actually a really interesting topic. Do you agree with what Israel is doing? I keep seing terrible pictures of bombed and injured people especially injured children in the middle east. Wtf is Israel doing I keep thinking.

He was I agree. I'm strongly against war or terror. My only question would be who started with this mess?

Don't know, because you can't predict the future, but the bogged-down failure in Vietnam finished Lyndon Johnson's career ignominiously. The final collapse in '75 clearly didn't do Gerald Ford any favours. And the failed Iran hostage-rescue didn't do Jimmy Carter any favours either. There's a case to be made that American voters don't like presidents who look weak and incompetent.

Yes that's when his hate started. He got kicked out bye the Sauds it says in video. ^ makes me think the Sauds were just wanting to make money with the Americans actually. The sauds are a very amazing country to me. Do you agree with what Saudi Arabia is doing?
They got an actual slave market there right now for instance. Woman are allowed to drive a car now, now this law was just passed just to look better imo. You still get stoned to death and woman get murdered for not obeying their husbands not want to marry their uncle etc etc.

They've been bankrolling a corrupt ruling clique. The army collapsed so rapidly because the troops didn't get paid, the 'commanders' took the money for themselves. Also Afghans, outside Kabul, don't really understand anything beyond clan loyalty and Western-imposed structures don't mean anything to them.

Biden has played a bad hand badly but it's hard to overestimate the damage done by Bush & co

Afghanistan was the most justifiable of their lunacy but the invasion of Iraq undermined everything. It prevented any sort of world consenus on dealing with terrorism and it forced russia, china etc to realise that the usa only understand power - they cannot be trusted at all to uphold international law/agreements and the more moderate/progressive forces in those countires were devestated. It also destroyed the credibility of UK left which led to brexit. Even N Korea learned the lesson they had to have nuclear weapons - maybe they would have done anyway but it meant that no agreement could possibly be reached because they knew the usa would attack if it ever felt like it.

And much more. The consequences have barely started to unfold.

Are we agreeing to this?
The sauds are bombing the crap out of these Jemenites.
They killed hundreds if not thousands of innocent school children there. Crippled and injured way more.
It would be hypocracy not to call that terror, yet the US is saying nothing. As long as the oil flows cause that's all they care about.

You have got to be f kidding me! What the f are the Sauds doing? Guess who's their partner?? Im not gonna show you crippled children in Palestine yet but their are just as bad maybe worse.

Saudi is a hellhole with gold-plated faucets. You really wouldn't want to be there (particularly but not only if you're a woman). The present Regent, Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman, ordered the disgusting murder of journalist Jamal Khashoggi inside a Saudi embassy, as everybody knows.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-45812399

Those might or might not have been his real reasons. The fact that he said those were his reasons in an interview means exactly **** all. He was not unsophisticated about releasing propaganda.

In Yemen, the Saudis are fighting the Houthis, an Iran-backed extremist movement of deeply unpleasant character. It's a regional Sunni-Shia power struggle. And the Iranians, who brutalise women and hang gay men from cranes in public, are at least as terrible as the Saudis. It's a bit like Hitler v Stalin in 1941: you only regret that they can't both lose, and lose catastrophically.

Yes, they can do whatever they want in their corner. Bomb their neighbours, kill Kashoggi. Its definetely disgusting. Did you know they have a slave market with people from Africa and Asia? They do. But they have the blessing of the west, because they produce this dirty gold. Nobody can and will f with them, since they are guarded. This is like a little kid who acts like a bully because he has a big brother or something. The US is protecting every murder that they do.

This certainly isn't going to help Biden. It will probably be a medium-sized ding to his presidency, but not necessarily catastrophic. Your Ford and Carter comparisons seem pretty appropriate.

Thinking about Vietnam, what's interesting to me is that it was no doubt a catastrophe for the US, but in the end South Vietnam collapsing didn't impact the result of the cold war. In the late 50's / early 60's communism was a clear threat after having taken eastern Europe, China, and being active in many countries around the world. So I get why Eisenhower and Kennedy originally got involved. But by 1975 communism had pretty much shot its' load. I wonder if there could be a parallel in Afghanistan where the Taliban take over, brutalize a lot of their own people, and then nothing really happens? I hope so, but I suspect they will eventually start exporting terrorism and we'll be back to 2001.