Idk. But that it would have worked seems so ridiculous I'm probably not thinking of it as an actual coup attempt in the first place. At any rate, above and beyond the charges they're already facing, what they were doing seems to more neatly fit some sort of election fraud or whatnot, the engaging in which I wouldn't think of as a coup attempt either even though the same illegitimate outcome would result.

make a poll and see who looks worse here, loser gets their avatar chosen for 2022

Challenge him to a boxing match

I was wrong to have suggested reflection.

They violently attacked The Capitol and had every intention of kidnap and murder or elected officials.

It wasn't going to actually overthrow the government (I don't think) but it sure as hell was an attempt to do just that.

If it was just a bunch of drunken Trump fans grabbing pens from the offices and urinating in the plants I'd see it your way. But I'm not sure you're thinking of what actually happened. Which is pretty common among people I speak with so no offense. This is a really big deal that just got glossed over for some reason that I'm not quite sure of. I guess none of the overfed piggies want to rock the boat up on The Hill.

also agree with campfire. The reason, if they charge them with minor could be that they were unarmed, if I'm not mistaking, pretty sure actually, and they turned out to be more or less harmless and naive idiots.

They did not mean to harm anyone didn't do vicious planning. They just hopped on that train like a bunch if idiots with no plan whatsoever to accomplish what they wanted to to accomplish. That's like if you say oh north Korea is bad and then go and try to invade it with sheer masses of people. If you think rationally about it, it of course us doomed to fail. It cannot be taken seriously. If they were armed then it's a whole different story.. But they weren't. Which underlines the true motive of these people.

I like what tame said that it all starts somewhere but I think you cannot put them in jail for treason imo.

Without any weapons? You gotta be kidding flush. how on earth is that supposed to work Out? No no, they were the barking dog that doesn't bite and u know it...

Let me introduce you guys to some modern non deadly weapons, especially made for riots at embassies , capitols etc..

This is what they should have used vs a mob trying to enter.. not sure how it does it but it stops mobs with unbearable heat. I think it's microwaves. Guaranteed to not harm permantly it says.




Maybe even better: non traction slime gun, made for riots and mobs

Think banana peels but much more effective.

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2udajl


Didn't mean to derail. Just saw this. Treason? No.

If you think treason then u also think snowden treasoned. He did not imo.

why'd a mod delete medici's conspiracy videos?

Apparently, some were charged with Obstruction of an Official Proceeding, rather than the more serious charges of Sedition or Insurrection. My issue is that even if they could convict Elizabeth “We’re storming the Capitol; it’s a revolution!” from Tennessee of the latter, do we really want to set the precedent or bar that low for anyone acting to prevent/interfere with the government exercising its authority?

Sure, but that is Trump lie you are spreading.

There were plenty enough people carrying weapons hidden and embedded amongst the useful idiot insurrectionists.

But even the unarmed were a grave threat. Time and again they used vastly superior numbers to surround armed police who then could not only not use their weapons but had them taken from them.

Had Ashley Babbitt and the group with her got thru that last barricade and had the ability to swarm into that room with the Congress people the police and security would have not only become useless but would become a threat in that the weapons on them would have then been taken by the insurrectionists. They would have been surrendering the Congress people to the mercy of the Insurrectionists.

Fact-check: Were Jan. 6 rioters armed?

Shouldn't that answer be 'heck yes'.

Now i guess some play a game that charging any incident of interference then means charging all incidents as if there is no difference and those charging have no discretion.

But if tearing your way literally into the Capital, attacking and beating and over whelming the police en route, and then by design shutting down a Constitutional process that has no defined remedy does not qualify for charges what ever would?

What you saw during and post Jan 6 was an exuberance and glee by insurrectionists for what they had done. They thought it was great fun and a great F-U to libz. Had there been no charges and action taken they gleefully would be back and do worse the next time they felt aggrieved because they could not win an election.

Now they have seen not only has Trump (the instigator) abandoned them (and not used his pardon power to protect them) but he blames them for doing a wrong.

You won't see the same type of action again taken by the most casual rightie, in an instance like this. They will rightfully be more cautious and only likely join in if they think it has a real chance to succeed without consequences to themselves.

Thanks for the link.
Didn't know it's a trump lie or a lie at all. That's what I got from the media, they did say there were no guns at first. (I didn't follow later)

I still think that most people at the riots were idiots, who you cannot charge for treason. For being stupid, yes. I did not hear about the other details you said but I believe you.
That actually had to be expected since the American gun culture. Of course some idiots were armed and wisely or not stashed it away. But they were apparently wise enough to not use it against officials or to bring it inside.

To me it looks like an uncoordinated attack, not planned in detail, and with horrible outcome. All called for by the still in charge president?

I actually like to see the government punished more than the people, for allowing it to happen. They did allow this bs to happen, had long notice and failed to act.

If a woman says no and gets raped, sure she is the victim. But not if she says yes and let's it all happen and half way in decides otherwise, and then says rape, then no. This is what happened here imo, they let them in, didn't do jackshit about it and now cry foul play. Imo it was a set up or big f up.

(1) an attack nonetheless

(2) (uncoordinated?) The Commission is looking at how far up the chain of command the actual coordination was planned..... because ya kno....it was planned.

Exactly! Now you are reminding me. Half of the security forces were trump supporters and therefore didn't do jackshit to stop this, half of the officials were too and didn't do jackshit. The mob just followed orders of the leader. So how on earth can you punish stupid individuals is my question. Yeah it was planned, by who is the question imo and who was tricked to do the dirty work.

What Trump wanted was a variation of the Roger Stone tactic used in Bush V Gore, that forced a stop of the count, spoiled ballots due to potential contamination with unprotected ballots in a room with citizens who burst in to the room, and to then use that chaos to say there is no Constitutional or otherwise proscribed remedy for this chaos (we caused) and thus we need to throw this to the Supreme Court.

In Bush V Gore the Supreme court gave the GOP side everything they wanted. They stopped the count, in the delay period to hear the case and then once they heard the case, they said that stoppage meant there was not enough time to count them, even if they wanted to therefore the ballots would not be counted thus preserving Bush's lead and win.

it was pure bad faith by the SCOTUS, as they chose a path that even with a decision that the ballots should be counted they created a situation where there was not time. On the other hand if they had instead let the count continue while they ruled, they could still rule not to include them but, more importantly if they ruled they should be included, then they would not have lost that time.

So the SCOTUS choose a path that only had one outcome (exclusion) when they could have chose one that kept both options (exclusion or inclusion) as an option. They are too smart not to be able to foresee that.

Trump and Co did not care if insurrectionist were armed. They just wanted them to stop the count and process. To have Congress leave and stay away, for safety reasons, and miss all the Constitutional required steps to confirm Biden as POTUS. If State Certifications and ballots were left in the chamber and spoiled by insurrectionists all the better.

This would force everything to the SC and Trump would have claimed to be the one in Power until resolved.

I cannot, for the life of me, figure out what would happen at that point. Trump would be proclaiming 'The VP has not completed the process and Biden is not sworn in. By our Constitution we do not yet have a new POTUS. I am still POTUS'.

Would the Secret Service, Military, Police, others take an order from Biden anyway to remove Trump if he said 'I am POTUS until the SC says otherwise?' Could they act on authority technically Biden was not vested with because we all believed he 'deserved' it and 'would' get it eventually?


It would have been a mess. Surely dem voters and Trump haters would hit the streets and some anarchy would ensue and Trump would want just that. He would then command the most vicious response he could hoping to polarize his side to him, to over look his election antics (for those on the fence) and just approve him crushing Dem 'rioters'.

Im not familiar with anything stone or gore there. I dont like stone. Isnt he the swinger idiot? Trump wanted a great uprising and he was still the president. So, if you follow the presidents orders, is it treason or not? He was pushed against the ropes (tilted af probably or he felt or was really f over idk) and wanted millions to show him support.

"Called to action by Trump,[34][35] thousands of his supporters gathered in Washington, D.C., on January 5 and 6 to support his false claim that the 2020 election had been "stolen by emboldened radical-left Democrats"[36][37][38][39] and to demand that Vice President Mike Pence and Congress reject Biden's victory.[40] Starting at noon on January 6,[41] at a "Save America" rally on the Ellipse, Trump repeated false claims of election irregularities[42] and said, "If you don't fight like hell, you're not going to have a country any more".[43][44][45] During and after his speech,[41] thousands of attendees walked to the Capitol and hundreds breached police perimeters[46][47] as Congress was beginning the electoral vote count. Many in the crowd broke into the building,[48][49]

Trump resisted sending the National Guard to quell the mob.[61] Later that afternoon, in a Twitter video, he reasserted that the election was "fraudulent", but told his supporters to "go home in peace".[6"

this would explain why all of this happened.
Yeah so this was a half assef stop and go tactic by trump. Give him credit or not for half assing or not. Had he called for war it would have looked differently.


Dozens of people present in Washington, D.C. on the day, including some who took part in the riot, were found to be listed in the FBI's Terrorist Screening Database, most as suspected white supremacists.[71] Over 30 members of anti-government groups, including the Oath Keepers, Proud Boys, and Three Percenters, were charged with conspiracy for allegedly planning their attacks on the Capitol, but the majority of the people charged with crimes relating to the riot had no known affiliation with far-right groups, and did not plan the riot in advance.[72][73][74][75][

This is actually scary that they had extremist in the riot...

But no, not 5 people died during the riot of gunshots or force:

"Five people died either shortly before, during, or following the event: one was shot by Capitol Police, another died of a drug overdose, and three died of natural causes.[19][32] Many people were injured, including 138 police officers. Four officers who responded to the attack died by suicide within seven months.[33]"

As you can see 4 responding officers committed suicide, that's how crazy it was. They must have felt torn apart.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021...Capitol_attack

I get the core elements along with intention were present. I'm not disputing that. I just don't think someone flapping their arms and jumping off a roof constitutes attempted flight despite the intention.

Sure, but why the strawman.

They did IN ACTUALLITY break up the constitutionally required process by using sheer force to threaten and break in to Congress.

Does that not matter even if someone fake flying does not?

The problem is imo that it was an inside job.
The security forces couldn't hold a trump banner next to a welcome, please break in sign, but they might as well could have. They were leaving the doors unlocked and winked at the protesters, cuepee. You know this is what happened. Or am I completely off here? At least half of them were trump supporters, right?

I know and hundreds have been charged with those elements:

https://www.justice.gov/usao-dc/capitol-breach-cases

• Violent Entry and Disorderly Conduct in a Capitol Building;
• Obstruction of an Official Proceeding;
• Obstruction of Justice/Congress;
• Assaulting, Resisting, or Impeding Certain Officers Using a Dangerous Weapon;
• Engaging in Physical Violence in a Restricted Building with a Deadly or Dangerous Weapon; etc.

I think that's sufficient all things considered, at least in regard to those charged. Apparently you believe the sum is greater than the parts. But whether you know it or not you're arguing for the application of the same top charge (Seditious Conspiracy) the Joints Chiefs would face if they rolled troops into the Capital. Nah.

I agree with your overall point. I don't think the obvious low IQ morons should be charged with sedition.
I think there should be a very serious and very thorough investigation and the higher ups (including members of congress) should be liable for that though.

The way you protect the institution isn't to scapegoat. It's to make sure the people who have the power to do this sort of stuff don't have the motivation.

They had weapons.

The security details were overwhelmed at many times. Did you watch much of the footage ?

Hence my preference for charges of sedition to be considered.

Yeah, that's what I meant with "at least in regard to those charged." But, sure, any government officials elected or appointed or even anyone acting somewhat at their behest should have the book thrown at them if the dots connect.