If you play on BetOnline you can see other peoples location

I don't believe that's true. I haven't come across any option to see a player's location in the BetOnline client. Some 3rd party apps allow you to see the location an account registered from since this information is available in the client data. I don't think it matters what skin you're on.

Oh, my bad
It used to be that you could see it on BetOnline a few years ago when they had the old software
Fun fact: Despite being able to play on the same tables people from different skins werent able to read each others chats

MCA can you tell, what else this 3rd party apps allow players to see or do?

Table Tamer is a program that helps with multi-tabling. If you know what Table Ninja, StackandTile or that Chico Grinder Tool is then it's pretty similar to those. Each have some different features that they offer and different sites that they support. Chico has actually done a pretty good job of implementing several of the features you can find in these programs into their own client. It doesn't allow you to see any other detailed information about an account if that is your concern.

Tried playing an afternoon PLO session and it's basically pointless.

At PLO .25/.50 there are 11 players on 3 tables, 8 are bots.
At PLO .50/1 there are 5 players on 2 tables, 4 are bots.

I'd like to play more hours, just not at tables that are 80% bots so playable hours are basically limited to 7PM - 2AM EST

I emailed a list of bots with 7-8 pieces of evidence to support many months ago and recently sent a list of bots to Mike a couple weeks ago. Zero change.

BetOnline's been my main site for several years and I like the cash races a lot, but it's frustrating waking up at 10AM and wanting to play, but having to wait 8 hours until there are a few tables running that aren't mostly bots.

I don't want to diminish your completely warranted frustration with the presence of the bots at all, but that sounds like just as much of an issue with the lack of traffic in those games at those hours. You're talking about midday on a Monday on a site where traffic increases exponentially when more USA based players are present. I'm not sure how you can significantly increase traffic during those offpeak hours.

That's precisely the point my dear MCA.

I've been on the site for years and there's never been an issue getting several games going at these stakes in the afternoon, sometimes 6-8, even during the inevitable Summer lulls.

Now traffic is totally dependent on the bots gracing us with their presence b/c they make up 50-80% of the player pool. New players trying out their hand at 0.25/0.50 and sitting down against 3 bots will not last long, and the bots are here every single day without fail.

I'm sure BetOnline has crunched the #s and know the bots are driving a lot of the rake these days and taking action against them would cause a temporary drop in rake. But the alternative is the bots killing off most of the traffic, then one day realizing that most of the players left are other bots and just deciding to stop playing. Then there is nothing left.

Surprising that PLO is the goto bot program. I haven't researched them that much, pot limit is their friend?

I have no idea what it's like on the NLHE side, but sounds like there are lots of bots there too. In PLO there are sometimes 5 bots at a 6-max table so it's hard to imagine the problem is worse there.

They could be working together and sharing cards. Pretty huge problem that needs to be addressed asap.

Until recently it was probably as bad or worse in the NLHE cash games. In the last month or so there has been a noticeable improvement. There are still some around, but there's a lot less than there has been in a while.

How is it when it comes to the Boost games?

I couldn't say with any certainty since Boost doesn't run very often outside of the micro-stakes yet. I wouldn't think that there would be more in the Boost games than at the regular tables, but only a regular in those games could tell you with any certainty. When it has ran a little bit at higher stakes I haven't seen any of the bots jump in.

Is there any news about what can we do with all the VIP points? I dont know how they imagine that someone would be able to spend millions of vip points with the current system. The only fair thing would be to let us exchange them for cash I think otherwise it is impossible to spend them...

Unfortunately no new news in the last month. Changes to the rewards program should be coming "soon." No ETA has been given.

Hey guys,

With regards to the VIP Points, I asked a few days ago and was told that the new system is definitely coming in very soon and I have obviously given all of your suggestions.
I also gave my suggestions and I sincerely hope that you guys will like the new system.

Kind Regards

Mike

How soon is soon? They've been saying that exact phrase for over a month.

Hi BumbleBTuna,

I can not give you an answer at the moment.
As soon as I know I will post it on the forum.
I can only apologise about the lack of communication and time it has taken.

Kind Regards

Mike

Nah, we've been upgraded from soon to very soon. Things are starting to look up!

The table camping, scripting and auto-waitlisting on Mid-Highstakes NL ist getting completely out of hand.

How can it be that everytime I am a second to late to get the actual seat and click on joing waitlist I am already number 8 or so in the list?
Its also super tough to opensit on 1k-2k now because we don't see the locations people are from and I am quite sure that some of the guys there are def. using some software in the background. But the worst part are some of the "new regs" that show up every other day and just constantly steal your BU. That makes opensitting so much more annoying...
And everytime you ask them why they do that they answer you in fckn Russian or some ****....

I suspect people are using auto waitlist but turning off automated seating to avoid detection. So they camp tables that cards aren’t being dealt and end up at the top of the list if they ever miss a table. Then people who quickly click “join waitlist” as soon as the button appears end up being far down the list.

Grimming, or buttoning, is mentioned in the rules. If somebody is doing that then you should definitely be reporting them. It should be easy to point this out to support from the hand history.

Table camping is not listed in the rules. I assume you are referring to sitting out HU or short-handed. Very few regs are willing to play each other HU or short-handed in high raked games. As far as I know, the network still takes a Bad Beat Jackpot contribution out of HU and short-handed play even though the Bad Beat Jackpot can't be triggered without at least 4 players dealt into the hand. You need rakeback, a high tolerance for variance or a large edge over your opponent(s) to make it worth it to play other regs HU or short-handed. I don't have a problem if they prohibit it in the future, but as of now it's not a rule violation.

If you mean full table blocking then this particular action is mentioned in the rules. There are a few people still abusing this rule, but not as many as there were in the past. The majority of players now either continue to play or leave the table. You should report anybody who is regularly breaking this rule. I would take a screenshot or video of them sitting out at a full table while continuing to play at another.

There are still some people using seating scripts, but there is also less use than there was in the past. Seating scripts are not explicitly mentioned in the rules as of now, but that email they sent out did state that seating scripts are not allowed. I assume this will be listed as a prohibited type of software to use when they release their updated prohibited software list. If you record your sessions then it should be pretty easy to show proof of who is using one if you keep the tables without action open on your screen. If you notice somebody who doesn't regularly camp, play HU or short-handed, but immediately and consistently gets the best seats, then you know they're almost certainly using one.

Auto wait-listing has never been discussed as prohibited. There probably are some people using a tool for this based on how quick the waiting lists build up, but I don't know how you could accurately identify who is using one. I can honestly say I don't use any tool for seating or auto wait-listing and I can regularly get to the top of wait lists, the top 1-2 spots, if I'm paying attention when a table starts filling up, whereas I have no chance at beating the seating script users to a seat. If they have a way to detect and prohibit an auto wait-list tool then that's fine by me, but please don't go reporting just anybody who you see consistently near the top of wait lists. I've already had people at the tables accuse me of using a seating script for this reason. I wouldn't pay for a tool which could possibly get me banned from here. I'm just very quick and observant of most of the empty tables at my stakes, I assure you.

If you think a player is using some kind of prohibited software then feel free to send me a private message with your suspicions and I'll definitely look into it. I don't play 2KNL yet, but I've played every other stake of NLHE here from 2NL, when they offered it, up to 1KNL. I like to think I'm pretty good at identifying most suspicious behavior after having played here consistently for a few years now. I'm always willing to try to help get any cheaters out of the games if we can prove that they're actually cheating.

Hi Guys,

Please send me any information regarding possible use of prohibited software.

We have 2 new members of security who have joined to help specifically with the issue of prohibited software detection, and prevention.

Kind Regards

Mike

Hey Mike, Ive sent you a PM (regarding a completely other topic) a week ago, could you please answer me?
Thank you