No software should be allowed during the game. even a tracker!
the ecosystem would be better preserved.
@mike you should seriously consider this option.
IT is nonetheless intolerable to have your earnings confiscated for having used simplepostflop! seriously?
as I mentioned in a previous post .. they act like scoundrels at the first opportunity.

Hello PostflopNoob,

Do you have any facts to back up your financial liquidity problems claim? They just paid out over 200k from their own pockets?

I am trying to help the player, but first I and everybody else should find out the facts before making comments.

Everybody knows that recently many accounts were investigated and subsequently many accounts banned.
I know that many players using seating scripts and other banned software are not welcome at BOL.
Some accounts may get caught in the crossfire, thats why I am trying to find out all the information to see if I can indeed help him.

BetOnline clearly has a stellar 20 year reputation when it comes to matters like this.
I know that the player has been contacted directly regarding the matter.

I just think in current circumstances, why not wait to find out all the info and be patient to find out the outcome.

Kind regards

Mike

I love that option, but I'm not sure many others will agree.
I think no software, not even a basic hud or stats should be allowed.
I think/hope part of the reason Betonline has the calculator is to eventually improve it to where no other software will be allowed except our own.

Kind regards

Mike

+1 get rid of it all

totally disagree.

u already have ton of bots, if u wont allow trackers at ur site, u will be floated by 1000s of bots.

u dont do anything with bots atm, while u getting 10s of complains with evidences.

can u handle it by ur own? without any help from community? gl

i dont have very good knowledge about how bots work, but i think they should get info from the client about cards, stacks etc.
If so, then there is another way to add extra "warning flag" for suspected "players".
Just slightly update the code of ur software, where stacks, cards and all that info will be changed, just a bit.
All real players will continue to playing as they always does. But BOTS will stop playing for a while(or would play with some errors\missplays etc), before their developers release new update that fix the problem, that was caused by ur update.
I know some poker apps, like pokerbros are doing those updates every week or so and 1 of the reasons for updates is because of that problem.

To be honest all the post about account locked/balance seized/shady support is always about tigergaming, feels like betonline is way better

Without 3rd party tracking software we have no way of verifying the site is raking the amount that they claim. It would be impossible for players to assist the site with bot detection. Would you love this?

Yeah the only reason Party can get away with no trackers is because they have much bigger security teams to deal with bots.

Hell, we have trackers and pass on undeniable proof of bots and many are still playing. God knows how bad it would be with no trackers.

I wouldn't continue playing here if they banned all 3rd party HUDs and multi-tabling tools unless the following conditions were met:

• At least 6 months without the presence of the most common cash game bots regularly being at the tables at all stakes. Sure there's less of them around at the moment, and none regularly playing 500NL+ the last couple of weeks, but I still see some of these accounts still active at 200NL and below on a daily basis.
  
• Downloadable hand histories for every hand you were involved in with the account names of your opponents at the table visible in that hand history.
  
• Only one observable table at a time when you're not actively playing at that table.
  
• All confiscated remaining balances from players found to be cheating split up and sent to the players who were cheated, with the most affected players receiving the largest shares.
  
• Consistent and proactive prevention and removal of all future bot accounts and bans for the users.
  
• Consistent and proactive prevention and removal of seating scripts and suspensions/bans for the users.

Without trackers we probably would have never been able to expose bloodywolf as a cheater. Without trackers it would be much harder to expose regular bots.
Also if BetOnline would ban trackers most people would still use them. The security team can't even clear the sites of bots, let alone seating scripters. And spotting those two is _FAR_ easier than spotting someone who is running a stealth tracker.
It would be the worst decision you can do, might aswell ban every legit reg and let the bots take their positions.
Also Party is a great example. EVERY SINGLE PLAYER I know who plays there uses a HH converter. I am confident to say that 80% of the player pool is playing with a tracker.
Please, let's not even entertain such thoughts.

lol you guys can't (or choose not to) even make any progress on bots and seating scripts etc but you think you can/should ban trackers? so silly how lost you are. btw we are basically your security team as yours is trash and we largely identify the cheaters via tracker.

+1

I do not think at all BOL has liquidity issues. As BOL Mike said they paid out a BBJ 200k+ out of their own pockets and I was personally 53k of that. I've been doing max cashouts every week since and everything has been so effortless and smooth it's beyond calming to me knowing I still have a large sum of money on the site.

Can we still run PT4 in the background while playing? Not using it for betonine but play other sites at the same time. Just making sure i won't have issues running it.

This would completely kill the site. Bots would be roaming free as other people have mentioned.

I am all for a site free of any software as long as the site itself can take some form of responsibility.

I have made a formal report, 4 pages long, including the names, statistics and thorough explanation to the degree that someone without any prior poker experience could understand. Every time I talk with the support, they claim they have never received the e-mail. I then re-send it and ask them to confirm it was received, they do and the next time I ask for an update we are back at page one.

If you want regs to respect a decision to ban all software, you have to give them enough respect to listen and put in 10 minutes of effort to deal with the obvious bot-rings that are ruining the ecosystem.

We are a lot of people who put in time, thanks to the statistic programs, did all the work for your security team, handed it to them on a silver plate and still get ignored.

I am about one week to buy into the crazy conspiracy theorists that claim these bots are run by the site themselves.

I find the response "Some accounts may get caught in the crossfire" quite alarming as well, this is peoples livelihood and life changing money for some (even though you could argue that players should not keep such sums on an unregulated site).

It is worriesome, but to be fair so far it only happened to one guy who was 100% seating scripting and lying about it and who else seemed to have left out part of the story

LoL

They only get away with bannig huds cos they offer insanly big RB for hardcore grinders.
Whithout that very few ppl would play on **** software and reg, bot infested site.

Fair enough, I haven't played there in years.

But, I think we can assume that the Party security team is much bigger / better than BOL and if Party can't stop the bots then BOL will have absolutely no chance at all without trackers.

Prohibited Categories


(I) Seating Scripts
(II) Real Time Solvers, Bots, Assistance Software, Charts that either automate gameplay or provides recommendations on which gameplay actions to take.
(III) Advanced Equity calculations, ICM or Nash Equilibrium-based programs.
(IV) Timing Randomisers
(V) Chart Retrievals
(VI) Data Mining
(VII) Hand History Converters.

it would be very nice to clarify what can be used or not ...
PT or HM + a HH converter seems forbidden ....

It seems like those things were changed, recently, could we have some sort of clarification?
>(IV) Timing Randomisers
Why?

>(V) Chart Retrievals
What exactly falls under that? What about a picture of an opening range?
Or are charts fine as long as they are not interactive with anything that happens in the software?

>(VII) Hand History Converters
Why? Are you serious? Seating scripts are banned and still everyone is using them. I guess thats somewhat okay, because it doesn't give you an advantage, but even more people are going to use converters and it is just going to heavily punish the people who follow the rules. And will make it next to impossible to expose bots.

Anyone who needs a source:
https://www.betonline.ag/rules

I really recommend for people to check our the list of permitted software:
https://www.betonline.ag/rules (credit goes to ChiTownMCA who found it)
This is the most ridicolous list I have ever seen:

>The worst part is that they allow HirokuScript (a seating script which works for many poker rooms, including Chico.) Why?

>H2N and PT4 are not allowed to use while playing, HM2 is. Why? So that means even if I don't use a HH converter I can't play on Chico anymore, since I use PT4 for other sites?

>TimeMojo being allowed, despite Timing Randomisers being against the rule (why are they?!)

Please, can we have an official statement? I don't want my balance being seized because some intern wrote the most arbitrary list I've ever seen.

Here are the lists which can be found linked in the Permitted and Prohibited Software sections under the Poker Rules section of their Rules page.

As NINzent mentioned, they seem ridiculously arbitrary.

Holdem Indicator, which is the HUD your network provides players to use for free, is listed as prohibited to use while playing????

What is meant by Hand History Converters are prohibited? Do you mean the Hand Grabber which is the only thing that allows HUDs like HM2/HM3 and PT4 to work on this network, or do you mean something else?

What makes Holdem Manager 2/3 alright to use during play, but PT4, DriveHUD and H2N not OK to use? I'd bet that most of your regs currently use one of those HUDs.

As NINzent mentioned, Hiroku Script is a seating script and yet it is included in the permitted software section.

TimeMojo, which tracks the timings of actions is permitted, but timing randomizers are prohibited. I can't even think of a reason to ban timing randomizers.

What is PokerSolver and why is it in the permitted section? Isn't that just the type of software you don't want players having open while playing, like Pio and Simple that players have received messages to stop using?

Programs that don't even work on this network like StarsHelper, Table Ninja and PartyCaption are mentioned.

Please remove these lists until they have been thoroughly checked for accuracy and feedback is sought from your players. If the HUDs listed as banned while playing is intended to remain then I will be moving my action elsewhere.

Start by proactively eliminating the software use that most negatively impacts the games. I'm happy to see that software like seating scripts, bots and live solvers are being listed as prohibited, but you don't need make an arbitrary list of software to ban all at once. Get those things out of the game first. Only then should you focus on other aspects of software you don't want to allow. A blanket ban on some of the most popular HUDs is ridiculous and will lead to use of these tools through means to hide their use from detection, similar to what bot and other prohibited software users currently use, only much harder to detect.

If Pokertracker is banned I'm done. What a farce.

what is the software upgrade that prohibits PT4 (v4.15.11 and newer) from being used while playing? what if you are running v4.15.10??