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Old 06-27-2020, 12:46 AM   #1451
JGoldPDX
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Re: BetOnline.ag Poker: Cash Games Thread

Thanks Mike and yes +1 to Ninzent a list is going to take constant upkeep
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Old 06-28-2020, 04:23 AM   #1452
BetOnline Mike
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Re: BetOnline.ag Poker: Cash Games Thread

The list was taken down temporarily to stop any confusion.

Kind regards

Mike
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Old 06-28-2020, 04:32 AM   #1453
MCAChiTown
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Re: BetOnline.ag Poker: Cash Games Thread

Thanks Mike! Enjoy your Sunday!
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Old 06-29-2020, 01:06 AM   #1454
crispoker10
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Re: BetOnline.ag Poker: Cash Games Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by BetOnline Mike View Post
The list was taken down temporarily to stop any confusion.

Kind regards

Mike
When BetOnline will ban the bots?
Its gettin crazy last weeks. These bots are now playing PLO1000 and sometimes with 2 accounts on table. Possibly collusion (WHICH IS RIDICULOUS) and using multiple softwares. Playing almost perfect and/or gettin always good.
These are 100% confirmed bots (never talk in chat and identical stats). Please close these accounts and confiscate their money. And obvious distribute some to players that lost to them.

BOTS confirmed:

lucky_beast
chromaster
Berest
frisbi
Seyran
JaxWIN
wakeKite
Kalazard
LopTop
Kesy
Keeper


If nothing changes by the final of next week, im done with this site.
These players are holding a large amount of money. If BOL doesnt do nothing.. people should just stop playing here.
Its ridiculous that BOL didnt do nothing yet.
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Old 06-29-2020, 12:25 PM   #1455
TUTI88
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Re: BetOnline.ag Poker: Cash Games Thread

Hi, when you talk about using PT4 in Chico, do you use any hand converter and, is it allowed? I have seen that hand converters are not allowed in Chico, in the prohibited software list.
So can you clarify if it is allowed to use PT4 with hand converter (like Betonline Card Catcher for example)
If i am not wrong, PT4 does not support chico by itself (i mean without hand converters)

Thanks.
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Old 06-29-2020, 01:59 PM   #1456
Jordan4mvp
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Re: BetOnline.ag Poker: Cash Games Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by crispoker10 View Post
When BetOnline will ban the bots?
Its gettin crazy last weeks. These bots are now playing PLO1000 and sometimes with 2 accounts on table. Possibly collusion (WHICH IS RIDICULOUS) and using multiple softwares. Playing almost perfect and/or gettin always good.
These are 100% confirmed bots (never talk in chat and identical stats). Please close these accounts and confiscate their money. And obvious distribute some to players that lost to them.

BOTS confirmed:

lucky_beast
chromaster
Berest
frisbi
Seyran
JaxWIN
wakeKite
Kalazard
LopTop
Kesy
Keeper


If nothing changes by the final of next week, im done with this site.
These players are holding a large amount of money. If BOL doesnt do nothing.. people should just stop playing here.
Its ridiculous that BOL didnt do nothing yet.
When they would shut down their Accounts and give some of the Money to the other Players it would be like every other Player wins a Bad Beat Jackpot or something like this.
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Old 06-29-2020, 02:42 PM   #1457
crispoker10
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Re: BetOnline.ag Poker: Cash Games Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jordan4mvp View Post
When they would shut down their Accounts and give some of the Money to the other Players it would be like every other Player wins a Bad Beat Jackpot or something like this.
Its what other poker rooms do.
Close bots accounts and distribute the money to the players that lost against them.
I'm not expecting anything else from BOL
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Old 06-29-2020, 03:06 PM   #1458
BLOB DYLAN
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Re: BetOnline.ag Poker: Cash Games Thread

Are you for real?? Is this list for real and accurate?? jeezus I've lost thousands to
half of these players playing muliti table cash games playing Omaha High. This is some serious bullshit! Its not like the player pool is overwhelmingly high in Omaha either to investigate. I'd just be another fool to continue playing here if they're allowing this. Half of these players I've seen for sum while. Not till yesterday have i thought to see if anyone else had issues and suspected anything. Thanks for confirming my suspicion. I def won't be depositing any further and pass along the message to others. Thx again..god ****ing DAMMIT Bet Online!! sux to get ****ed like this
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Old 06-29-2020, 04:32 PM   #1459
crispoker10
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Re: BetOnline.ag Poker: Cash Games Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by BLOB DYLAN View Post
Are you for real?? Is this list for real and accurate?? jeezus I've lost thousands to
half of these players playing muliti table cash games playing Omaha High. This is some serious bullshit! Its not like the player pool is overwhelmingly high in Omaha either to investigate. I'd just be another fool to continue playing here if they're allowing this. Half of these players I've seen for sum while. Not till yesterday have i thought to see if anyone else had issues and suspected anything. Thanks for confirming my suspicion. I def won't be depositing any further and pass along the message to others. Thx again..god ****ing DAMMIT Bet Online!! sux to get ****ed like this
yes it is unfortunately
if BOL doesnt do anything in the next days.. im going to leave aswell.
been playing since 2015 .. and made more than 300k usd rake at least lol
if BOL doesnt close these accounts and confiscate their money.. its mega suspicious lol
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Old 06-30-2020, 12:24 AM   #1460
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Re: BetOnline.ag Poker: Cash Games Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rahm93 View Post
Hi!

I am a regular on the PLO500-PLO1K tables on the Chico network.

It was recently brought to my attention that a large portion of regulars in these games, and at lower stakes I have been told, are bots.

This is the same ring that has been active on the Americas Cardroom / Winning Poker-network as well as IPoker.

I have been in contact with the representatives working for Chico and pressed them multiple times for an e-mail or a contact number to anyone working on the security department, offering any support. They have not seemed very interested in this, and I have never received any follow-up on my e-mails or chat-sessions.

The original bot using this software on the Chico-Network played under the nickname SorttMetal. About a year ago, myself and a large group of other regulars reported this player and brought to light the similarities in play-style they all share. It is unclear whether he was banned or just retired the account as I never received a reply from Chico.

Their playing-style is extremely different from any other regular player. I will quickly go over the most obvious statistics and illustrate them using some statistics put together by another regular in the games.

Preflop
These players share the exact preflop-ranges. You will see slight fluctuations in regulars raise first-ins specifically.

Flop Float Betting / Bet vs Missed CBet IP
These players all stab about 75% vs a check from a preflop raiser. This is very far from an optimal solution, and very far from any other regs statistic. I am yet to see any other reg with a number over 50% in this specific spot, yet this group of players all stab another 25% on top of that.

CBetting 100% IP MW
All of these players continuation bet close to 100% when in position in multiway pots. You will never find a regular player betting over 50% in this situation, yet this sample of players all have adopted the strategy of betting their entire range in position in multiway pots.

Needless to say this is very far from optimal and I have yet to see any other regular in my career of PLO playing over a 50% bet strategy in this situation.

There are more statistics to dig into, but in order to prove that these are the same bots as on ACR, that ChicagoJoey brought to light last year, I will provide statistics gathered by another reg as well as a comparison of the statistics which Joey put together last year over the ACR bots.

The list of current nicknames which I find undoubtedly being bots (I have several other suspicious accounts but since I can not verify these I will leave them of the list for now).


Stoner248
Jump_Up
Berest
LopTop
chromaster
frisbi
lucky_beast
lodyrev
Seyran
MoggyGinzo
JaxWIN
Kalazard
wakeKite
Stoner248
Jump_Up
Keeper
Kesy


These players combined win at around 8bb/100 from samples I have seen.

Below I will attach print-screens of statistics compiled by another regular in the games who has played more against these bots than I have.



ChicagoJoey compilation of Bot-statistics from ACR

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing

I will again offer my time and help to anyone working at Chico trying to sort this out. There is obviously no doubt that this is the same bot-ring that is active on other networks. The lack of interest in resolving this situation from Chicos side is quite alarming.

I believe it would be in the best interest of all parties if this was sorted out and we could restore the integrity of the games.
Cris is completely correct in everything he is saying.

We are a group of regs that have made multiple reports providing indisputable evidence.

Every time I am in contact with a representative of the Chico-network I get the response "Hmm we have no report of this, I will forward it to the relevant department"-kind-of-response. Every single report about bots in these thread has been ignored by the representative as well. I guess HUD or no-HUD takes priority over bots making up 50% of the regpool.

At this point I am in the camp of conspiracy theorists believing the ring is run by Chico themselves, because the level of incompetence their "security department" is beyond belief.

I understand that a network does not give one cent about winning regulars, such has been the case with 95% of sites, but recreational players who are crucial for the network to survive are being taken advantage of day in and day out. Some of them have started voicing their concerns in chat as well, some remain blissfully unaware.

The moral degeneracy of letting something like this go on, stealing from unaware customers, who PAY you money to use their platform, is sickening.
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Old 06-30-2020, 12:59 AM   #1461
TheMVP
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Re: BetOnline.ag Poker: Cash Games Thread

The fact that you can look at one single stat, cbet multiway IP, to detect these bots makes it even worse that nothing has been done. You could teach a 5-year old to monitor the games.
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Old 06-30-2020, 12:26 PM   #1462
Rahm93
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Re: BetOnline.ag Poker: Cash Games Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMVP View Post
The fact that you can look at one single stat, cbet multiway IP, to detect these bots makes it even worse that nothing has been done. You could teach a 5-year old to monitor the games.
I honestly think they do not have anyone who works there who understands the statistics. I've offered about 10 times to consult and do a zoom-call with someone working at the network to explain it more in detail and show them in any tracker, but haven't been able to receive as much as an e-mail address to someone working on it, which makes me believe they don't exist.

It takes A LOT of malpractice in order to now have solved this yet, and not accept the free help offered to help your business. Everything has been handed to them on a silver plate.
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Old 06-30-2020, 10:17 PM   #1463
crispoker10
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Re: BetOnline.ag Poker: Cash Games Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by BetOnline Mike View Post
The list was taken down temporarily to stop any confusion.

Kind regards

Mike
are you going to keep avoiding us? and let bots withdraw all the money?

this only stops when you confiscate bots accounts.
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Old 06-30-2020, 10:21 PM   #1464
BLOB DYLAN
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Angry Re: BetOnline.ag Poker: Cash Games Thread

Exactly, they'll only take action once it hurts their pockets. If they dont see a financial downside yet, then they wont budge to ban the obvious list of bots all over their site that they have.

It's simple, dont play at BOL unless you want to play with a bunch of bots like over at ACR..Same Same...because they allow obvious bots to continuously play for so so long, doing zip zero about it, making money off it... inviting more bots to screw more real players If you're a bot then it looks like you have a long bright future over there with the others.

Thx to everyone for sharing this info and for saving me $$$Thousands$$$$ if i didn't find the info and evidence you've shared. Numbers don't lie. BOL, Another garbage filled poker site.
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Old 07-01-2020, 02:02 AM   #1465
BetOnline Mike
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Re: BetOnline.ag Poker: Cash Games Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rahm93 View Post
I honestly think they do not have anyone who works there who understands the statistics. I've offered about 10 times to consult and do a zoom-call with someone working at the network to explain it more in detail and show them in any tracker, but haven't been able to receive as much as an e-mail address to someone working on it, which makes me believe they don't exist.

It takes A LOT of malpractice in order to now have solved this yet, and not accept the free help offered to help your business. Everything has been handed to them on a silver plate.
Hi rahm93,

I understand your frustration, but all of the data has been taken and is being investigated by the team.
There was a purge recently in NLH so I would presume the natural progression would be to move to PLO.

I hope people understand that this is a PUBLIC forum, and it would be illogical to reveal certain aspects of the way Betonline is dealing with situations like this.

Betonline is working hard and making big strides and you will see the results I'm sure.

Kind regards

Mike
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Old 07-01-2020, 02:16 AM   #1466
BetOnline Mike
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Re: BetOnline.ag Poker: Cash Games Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by BLOB DYLAN View Post
Exactly, they'll only take action once it hurts their pockets. If they dont see a financial downside yet, then they wont budge to ban the obvious list of bots all over their site that they have.

It's simple, dont play at BOL unless you want to play with a bunch of bots like over at ACR..Same Same...because they allow obvious bots to continuously play for so so long, doing zip zero about it, making money off it... inviting more bots to screw more real players If you're a bot then it looks like you have a long bright future over there with the others.

Thx to everyone for sharing this info and for saving me $$$Thousands$$$$ if i didn't find the info and evidence you've shared. Numbers don't lie. BOL, Another garbage filled poker site.
Hi BLOB DYLAN,

Thanks for your input, I tried to send you a private message but your account is too new and you only have 2 posts. Once you post more this feature will become available to you.

I would encourage you to read through our whole forum before making an instant review on Betonline, you will see that we are actively working with the players to make Betonline improve in all areas.

Within the last month there was a large purge on NLH accounts, this is reported by many of the players in this forum.

I think its frustrating across the board in online poker, and we have had some good discussions in the forum regarding ways to make things better.

We are currently working on a list of ban/prohibited software to publish, although some have stated this may not be needed and actually may cause more confusion.

If you have any suggestions that would help us make improvements please feel free to share them.

Otherwise I would encourage you to give us a try, we have some fantastic promotions and weekly cash races.
Betonline is also known for having some of the quickest withdrawals within the industry.



Kind regards

Mike
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Old 07-01-2020, 05:39 AM   #1467
NINzent
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Re: BetOnline.ag Poker: Cash Games Thread

I can confirm that NL500+ has been almost bot free since a few weeks, a huge improvement
Mike, could you post a list of the names of the accounts that got banned? If not why not?
Also what happened to the money that got confiscated?

Also guys, please remember this is a public forum, I would really like you to edit out the information on how to detect bots. If you want to let BetOnline now email it to support/PM Mike (I know it seems like it doesnt help, but posting it here wont help either). If you want to discuss it use the Chico Reg Discord server.
But there is no reason to make it easy for bot rings.
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Old 07-01-2020, 05:50 AM   #1468
SpewNL
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Re: BetOnline.ag Poker: Cash Games Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by NINzent View Post
I can confirm that NL500+ has been almost bot free since a few weeks, a huge improvement
How do you know or confirm there are no bots?

Is there anything similar in NLH or any other obvious way to spot a bot/real time solver?

Last edited by Bobo Fett; 07-01-2020 at 04:02 PM. Reason: Removed specific stat line.
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Old 07-01-2020, 06:20 AM   #1469
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Re: BetOnline.ag Poker: Cash Games Thread

Dude, I just said that I don't want to discuss those things here
And please edit the part about the specific stat out of your post
But I can tell you if you know what to look for its not hard, also I've got ChiTownMCAs help who is an absolute beast on detecting bots
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Old 07-01-2020, 09:04 AM   #1470
SpewNL
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Re: BetOnline.ag Poker: Cash Games Thread

can't edit the post but I asked for it to be removed.
and fwiw I didnt really expect you to provide a complete bot detection method itt.
Was more curious how you have the confidence to claim that you can confirm the site is almost bot-free
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Old 07-01-2020, 01:16 PM   #1471
Rahm93
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Re: BetOnline.ag Poker: Cash Games Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by BetOnline Mike View Post
Hi rahm93,

I understand your frustration, but all of the data has been taken and is being investigated by the team.
There was a purge recently in NLH so I would presume the natural progression would be to move to PLO.

I hope people understand that this is a PUBLIC forum, and it would be illogical to reveal certain aspects of the way Betonline is dealing with situations like this.

Betonline is working hard and making big strides and you will see the results I'm sure.

Kind regards

Mike
Hi Mike!

I appreciate your reply.

Myself & a group of other regulars reported some of these accounts 18 months ago. Specifically the account LopTop and SorttMetal. SorttMetal no longer plays but continued to win at a high winrate for 8 months after our initial reports, and LopTop is still active.

These accounts combined have taken far more than $100K out of the eco-system, and I do not want to think about the numbers for the entire ring.

Surely you can understand the frustration, as this issue has been raised for a long time, yet every time I contact the site they act like they have never heard of it before. The evidence is so convincing, as they same group has been active on other networks (mainly ACR) and the issue got a lot of attention due to ChicagoJoeys efforts and podcast. There are millions of hands, yet their deviations are so obvious that you only need a few hundred to prove it.
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Old 07-01-2020, 07:52 PM   #1472
JGoldPDX
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Re: BetOnline.ag Poker: Cash Games Thread

Also there's still quite a lot of bots at the lower stakes - 100 and 200nl. Please don't just move on to PLO although it's sorely need there I hear. Appreciate all continuing efforts to address this!
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Old 07-02-2020, 05:00 AM   #1473
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Re: BetOnline.ag Poker: Cash Games Thread

do we have a clear answer concerning the using of PT3 , HM3 + a HH converter... ?
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Old 07-02-2020, 07:21 AM   #1474
MCAChiTown
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Re: BetOnline.ag Poker: Cash Games Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpewNL View Post
How do you know or confirm there are no bots?

Is there anything similar in NLH or any other obvious way to spot a bot/real time solver?
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpewNL View Post
can't edit the post but I asked for it to be removed.
and fwiw I didnt really expect you to provide a complete bot detection method itt.
Was more curious how you have the confidence to claim that you can confirm the site is almost bot-free
I have a bot list and guide for detecting these types of bots in NL cash games. I've shared the list, guide and the information contained in it with several regs, including NINzent. Based on the absence of the account names we know of and the lack of new ones fitting the description of those bots we can conclude that there is less bots at 500NL+ at the moment. Many other stakes and game types are not even close to being bot-free at the moment. NINzent was just talking about 500NL+ where there has been noticeably less known botting accounts around in recent weeks.
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Old 07-03-2020, 05:04 AM   #1475
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Re: BetOnline.ag Poker: Cash Games Thread

Fair enough. Anyway I appreciate the good work you and whoever else is involved are doing
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