You are partially correct. In the existing region 1 Png, 4 tournament chips -> 1 coin plus some bonus coins as detailed in my immediately preceding post.

The region 2 PnG payout is ~61:1 due to the fact that the advertising rates are substantially lower.

Nope. Not at all. Yesterday we discovered antes weren't being collected and fixed that bug. Now that they are being collected, we discovered exactly what you're describing this afternoon and had a very long conversation about how to remedy the problem.

Without getting too esoteric, the short of it is we know the problem exists, we know it's very wrong, and it's a high priority to fix it. Nevertheless, if we miss a window on Wed night to put up a suitable fix, it'll have to wait up to 2-3 more weeks before we can repair this bug.

I apologize for this inconvenience. Did I mention we're still in beta? How about if we hand out up to 2M coins in promotions in August to make up for it?

We've noticed that some browsers appear to stop transmitting data after long periods of inactivity. Usually refreshing the page does the trick. We've got this on our list to track down. Any specific information you can provide will help (ie. browser, OS, etc).

Sounds good .

Tried again just now, everything is working fine. Windows 7, Chrome.

25 chips to start over at 1/2? are you kiddding me?

Thanks for your patience. Just trying to get my head round it all.

So let's say we set ourselves a target of accumulating 500,000 chips in PnG, we can cash the chips out for 152,500 coins, and we can cash the coins out for $150, give or take a couple of dollars.

As the 500,000 chips are worth $150, to keep ourselves motivated we can tell ourselves as we play that every 10,000 chips we win will eventually be worth $3, or even that every 1,000 chips won is making us another 30 cents. (This, of course, assumes we don't crash and burn along the way! )

(The above does appear to agree with your estimate of the money we can receive once we win 250,000,000 PnG chips.)

First, let me clarify one item... Each PnG can have it's own payout table. What you're looking at is the Region 1 payout table. Region 2 will have vastly different values because the advertising revenue in those countries is vastly lower.

That said, you seem to be right on point. Since you have your calculator out, if you were playing on a level 27 table with 3K/6K blinds, what might that mentally equate to?

FYI, we did a site update last night that turned off antes on all tables. We will leave them off until they are properly fixed.

How do you make that 1,500,000 chips per hour? My abacus does not compute.

On the surface, it would appear to be like a $1/$2 real money table, but the players would have had to have built their original 50 chips up to about 300,000 chips through the previous 26 levels, and would therefore probably be "world class".

In other words, imagining my sitting there would equate mentally to one of my fantasies.

Each butt in seat (BIS is the technical term we use) will view one ad every 6 min, or 10 ads/hr. Each ad adds 25 chips into the ecosystem, so that's 250 chips per hour per BIS. For 1,000 BIS, that's 250,000 chips per hour. As I said.

(thanks for checking my math)

np - someone has to do it!

Once you're established, let's say we take a snapshot year of a total of 1000 active players who see the potential and play against each other for 20 hours per week, or 1000 hours per year.

250,000 chips per hour means the advertisers are adding $75 per hour into the players' kitty, $75,000 per year.

That means those 1000 players win an average of $75 per year each for their 1000 hours each, or 7.5 cents per hour each.

Using the common 80 losers/20 winners rule, that means the 200 winners will win an average of 37.5 cents per hour each, or $375 per year each.

Therefore, the top 40 of these 1,000 players will win an average of $1.87 per hour each, or $1,875 per year each.

Not bad for keen rec players if they are in the very top tier of players who don't want to risk playing poker for any of their own money! And that's only for Region 1! Plus, happily, (and, jealously!), your excellent site idea has earned you few guys $75,000 in this hypothetical scenario.

e&oe

This common logic may not hold true for our site. In a typical real-money site, the house takes 50% of the money off the table in rake. With only 50% of the buyin returned to players, it stands to reason that odds are heavily in favor of most players losing money.

On BUP everyone is a winner. The question is, to what degree?!

Thanks for all your technical analysis. Do you want a job?

Well, no. It's a little more than logic. The Pareto principle applies to most things. If it was true that the house took 50%, the other 50% would still be won by 20% of the players vying for it. A bit like they are vying for the 50% of the advertising revenue you offer for free to your players.

Er ... 20%?

Of course, let's all hope you prove that the principle is incorrect!

You'd need a fundamental change to your system - say, pay everone at least something, (let's call it a games bonus), related to the time they spend generating the chips - for everyone to be a winner. Without BIS and those games being played, your advertisers won't continue to pay $150 per hour, or whatever, for too long. The games bonus would keep the keen but losing lovers of our game happy to continue playing, and it would also be a nice piece of icing on the cake for the winners, who would no doubt voluntarily play longer hours and open more tables. You could fund the games bonus with 20% of your 50% and probably make more money for yourselves in the long run.

Tried using IE and chrome to create an account, and after filling out all the info, nothing happens when I click on the big "sign up" button.

The page stays the same will all the info still there, nothing happens.

Hi, thanks for the info. Could you give us a bit of info about your operating system and browser versions? I was just able to create test accounts in both Chrome, Edge, and IE, so any info you can give to help us fix this issue would be really appreciated.

Windows 7 home premium 64 bit.

Current version of 64bit chrome.

IE 11 with current updates. I don't really use IE, just wanted to see if it worked.

Same issue trying to sign up via chrome on cell phone as well.

Dean/Greg

Any chance that we could choose to watch four ads in a row at join or rejoin, to accumulate 100 chips? Maybe force a player action of some sort between ads to ensure they are all watched? Don't show ads again or allow rejoins within 30 minutes to those who choose the option? Stuff like that.

We've contemplated all sorts of options. It's our impression that that's the swiftest way to invite an army of bots to the site. So probably not.

Where can you find the scheduled tournament results and prizes?

We post that information after the tournament in the thread that announced the contest in the first place. Thanks!

Where can I find that thread?

It would also be helpful to know the payouts after the registration is closed.

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/2...otion-1718846/

Click on the black arrow pointer in front of the Tournament number on the site. (Assuming the "Show registering tournaments only" option box hasn't auto-added a check mark back in, as it does with me.) Then scroll down.