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Old 08-05-2018, 04:14 PM   #76
Kropotking
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Re: Official MPN - Microgaming Poker Network Thread

I just downlaoded the new software and have to say that it is really disappointing... the only thing you did well is game speed and overall graphics...When i tried registering a HU sng it simply did not open. Two players registered but it simply didnt start. Not just once but several times...
Betsizing is a complete joke like others stated here already. No customiezable betslider, no mouse wheel control, pretty random presets that are obsolete as soon as someone raises. No sit out next bb. No wait for BB when joining tables. And the list could go on...And all of this is pretty basic and practical stuff you should get right when launching and not have somewhere in your backlog...

Edit. Guts.com is down. And it seems the new software is already the default download. Where can I get the old client?

Last edited by Kropotking; 08-05-2018 at 04:24 PM.
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Old 08-05-2018, 11:37 PM   #77
Bravepitt
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Re: Official MPN - Microgaming Poker Network Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by MPN Alex View Post
Could you please send me more details on exactly what happened? This is concerning.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MPN Alex View Post
Could you please send me more details on exactly what happened? This is concerning.
MPN ALEX , sorry for the late reply..
To me it appears to be a broken link nothing more or less, Once Prima was loaded/ then enter my player email add/username i wasn't able to login/ got redirect to the browser site...where again, not able to login.
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Old 08-06-2018, 03:09 AM   #78
rPaguHaP
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Re: Official MPN - Microgaming Poker Network Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by MPN Alex View Post
Judge us on our actions. We intend to be transparent about what we're doing and why. If, in a few months time, you feel that we haven't lived up to our promises, then call us out.
Most of the players on the thread didn't like the new software (mainly because of the lack of features)? Did you plan to follow the feedback from them and to revert to the old software and features? I don't think so.

All I want is players to stop making illusions about MPN and see their true intentions. The new software is joke, because all they want it to screw regular players and keep recreational players (which love shiny stuff). This is all they do for years. They do it when they introduce anonymous tables, when enable alias change and when change the hand history. Every time they introduce "changes", they try to make the life or regulars harder and to chase them out from MPN. Now, with this RIDICULOUS software, they also removing table selection, chat and downloadable hand history. Years ago a player use hand histories to detect the bots in MPN and alert the community. MPN failed to detect the bots for MONTHS. Now that is not possible and when there is not chat, you can't know if you play vs humans or vs bots.

Now you can't table select. Now you can't takes notes. Now you can't do the most things. All you can do is to select buy-in amount and to clicking buttons.
Oh, and yes, they allow you those shiny and useless achievements...

They said that they remove the things that people are not using, but how can they tell if you table select or take notes on players? They can't, because notes are locally stored and every player I know use color code or takes notes on players.

Who wants/needs ULTRA HD tables, which (translated to actual language) is the ability to play 1 table on a whole screen of 25"-27" monitor)?

If they really want new appearance, easy upgrades and fast software, they can just rewrite the old software with old features in the new program language and change very few things. Btw the old MPN software was one of the fastest and was working fine on ~10 years old computers).

P.S. Props for MPN for lowering the rake on cash tables.

Last edited by rPaguHaP; 08-06-2018 at 03:19 AM.
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Old 08-06-2018, 05:41 AM   #79
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Re: Official MPN - Microgaming Poker Network Thread

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Originally Posted by rPaguHaP View Post
hey allow you those shiny and useless achievements...
These achievements are probably the dumbest idea of all times. You can't do anything with them and you can show like one of them at the table? Why would even a rec collect those when you don't benefit anything from them? And can't even show all of them. And on top of that most likely 99% of the playerpool don't even recognize them at the table.
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Old 08-06-2018, 07:07 AM   #80
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Re: Official MPN - Microgaming Poker Network Thread

Oh dear. This new software is cack. Why would you bring it out only half finished with so many features missing? Over the last 3 years or so it's just been bad decision after bad decision.

Last edited by babaar; 08-06-2018 at 07:23 AM.
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Old 08-06-2018, 09:25 AM   #81
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Re: Official MPN - Microgaming Poker Network Thread

Well for our benefit or not but at least they are here to talk (in the place where they mostly could expect feedback from regs, not recs btw). Alex already promised that the most important gameplay features going to be implemented.

Table selection/anonymous/chang-able nicknames, etc, in my opinion, are different type of questions and we are quite biased and have different opinion about that even against each other (for example I personally think table seating shouldn't be like it is now, with all the mess where each player is able to open one table and if someone joins with an actual intention to try to start a game, open sitting guy just leaves and opens another one. We have 10's of tables per limit with 1 player at the table and no action).

Regarding software, someone pointed out that looking appealing for rec player is bad - I don't agree. While I don't like some decisions made by other operators for that matter so far I can not see any downsides to making software making more interesting, more interactive, more fun. It's not year 2000 anymore, this industry needs innovation too.
So what if you will have the software you could play 200 hands/hour per table if there will be no one to play against? Games are dependant on recreational players too.

I would love to see an operator who cares for both of those player groups and cares about the actual poker game too. Alex seems to try to find a balance and I respect that but admittedly from what I see now there is no innovation. I suspect RIO poker is going to start stronger already.
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Old 08-06-2018, 09:33 AM   #82
MPN Alex
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Re: Official MPN - Microgaming Poker Network Thread

Hi guys,

Apologies for the slow response. 2+2 has accidentally banned the IP address of our office so I'm posting this from my mobile :-)

First of all, sincere apologies for the connection issues last night. Our datacenter was hit by a DDOS attack, which affected several of our products including poker. We are working with our hosting providers to see how we can make the system more resilient in future.

We are working through refunds for affected players today. If you were impacted and are not happy with how your situation was resolved, please get in touch with your poker room's support team.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fergastra View Post
I'd still be curious to know about the future of short stacking in the new Prima client.
At the moment, we have no plans to allow players to choose their buy-in. I go into a lot of detail about this in this old blog: https://mpn.poker/the-end-of-shortstacking/

Essentially:

1. Relatively few players choose to buy-in for anything other than 100BB
2. Of those who do, most would have a better experience if they bought in for 100BB

I appreciate that this leaves a minority of players who enjoy playing a short-stacked strategy and that our new client doesn't cater to such players. However, I don't think it's possible to please everyone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by babaar View Post
+1 to the badge problem as well. They clutter the screen and are pointless. Please allow us to hide them again.
Sorry about this. We had to make this choice for compatibility reasons when the new client was released. We will reinstate the ability to hide these badges in future.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFlipper View Post
1) How about full ring tables? They almost never run, if they run they are usually shorthanded anyway. Probably almost no one who plays on this network really likes them (otherwise they would have left to a room/network where these tables actually run) so whats the point to keep them?
We have actually been investigating this for a while and are close to making a decision.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Kropotking View Post
I just downlaoded the new software and have to say that it is really disappointing... the only thing you did well is game speed and overall graphics...When i tried registering a HU sng it simply did not open. Two players registered but it simply didnt start. Not just once but several times...
We have a known issue with the tables not opening in some circumstances, which we are working on right now. Sincere apologies for this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bravepitt View Post
MPN ALEX , sorry for the late reply..
To me it appears to be a broken link nothing more or less, Once Prima was loaded/ then enter my player email add/username i wasn't able to login/ got redirect to the browser site...where again, not able to login.
Thank you, I have escalated this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rPaguHaP View Post
Most of the players on the thread didn't like the new software (mainly because of the lack of features)? Did you plan to follow the feedback from them and to revert to the old software and features? I don't think so....
Revert? No. The old software is still available, and anyone who prefers it can still use it.

With regards to the rest of your post - I think I'm unlikely to convince you. We have been transparent in the past about our motivations, via our network website and blog. Going forward we have added 2+2 to this. Our intention is to be more transparent than ever about what we are doing and why. Unfortunately we will never please everyone, or convince everyone that our motivations are genuine. But we will do our best.


Quote:
Originally Posted by babaar View Post
Oh dear. This new software is cack. Why would you bring it out only half finished with so many features missing?
Because in any production system, you need to minimise waste. If you release a feature which is not used, then you have wasted the effort involved in developing it.

If we are going to produce the best poker software on the planet - and that is our intention - then we must waste less effort than everyone else in the marketplace.

Think of the product we've just released as a beta, if you like. We know it's not finished. Thanks to the feedback we've received, we don't have to guess about what is important to players, and hence we will not be wasting any time on things which don't generate value.

Right now, I think about 50% of players (mostly recreational players, to whom the simplified experience is most suitable) would have a better experience on the new client. The other 50% would be better off sticking to the old download. We've got lots of work still to do to make the new client better for the majority, but it's what we are working on right now.
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Old 08-06-2018, 09:52 AM   #83
KossuKukkula
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Re: Official MPN - Microgaming Poker Network Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by MPN Alex View Post
At the moment, we have no plans to allow players to choose their buy-in. .
Finally some good news. So happy there is atleast one site where you can't play short and rathole 24/7. I know I'm just one customer but if you manage to make the client playable atleast I will put most of my action to mpn. All I need is a rb with no gimmicks and I'm ready to play.

Last edited by KossuKukkula; 08-06-2018 at 10:04 AM.
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Old 08-06-2018, 09:58 AM   #84
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Re: Official MPN - Microgaming Poker Network Thread

MPN-Alex, Your arguments are valid for innovative or experimental features but not for industry standards like „sit out next bb“ or „wait for bb“ when joining /leaving tables. Those are standard and can never fall into your „producing waste“ logic imo. Thus, I think that even for a beta too much basic stuff is still missing. I had an alpha feeling and as we know you should not release an alpha to the general public or make it the default downloadable version as an operator (like Guts). And I still don’t get how stuff like this can happen in 2018 given all the available data, competition, market history etc.

I like MPN, your overall approach focusing on regs (VIP system, promos) and recs (game quality,looks and feel) alike but as i said before my first impression of the new client is simply disappointing.
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Old 08-06-2018, 10:07 AM   #85
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Re: Official MPN - Microgaming Poker Network Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by MPN Alex View Post


At the moment, we have no plans to allow players to choose their buy-in. I go into a lot of detail about this in this old blog: https://mpn.poker/the-end-of-shortstacking/
In this article I find this statement which is confusing to me:
`Players who buy in for 100BB are also the most likely to be winners – 47% of players who buy in for 100BB are net winners after rake. 44% of those who buy in for 30BB are winners.`


Usually over 70%of players are loosing,what I am missing here?

Is it adding sit out next bb option to technically demanding to implement?

Why not add option to start the table with 4 or 5 seated players for those,

like me, who don`t like playing shorthanded?
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Old 08-06-2018, 10:27 AM   #86
babaar
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Re: Official MPN - Microgaming Poker Network Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by MPN Alex View Post



Because in any production system, you need to minimise waste. If you release a feature which is not used, then you have wasted the effort involved in developing it.

If we are going to produce the best poker software on the planet - and that is our intention - then we must waste less effort than everyone else in the marketplace.

Think of the product we've just released as a beta, if you like. We know it's not finished. Thanks to the feedback we've received, we don't have to guess about what is important to players, and hence we will not be wasting any time on things which don't generate value.
I would argue...

You are not a new company going into a new market...

After 15(?) years of operating, getting data and feedback, you should know which parts of your service are essential.

These are basic features.
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Old 08-06-2018, 11:40 AM   #87
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Re: Official MPN - Microgaming Poker Network Thread

Hi,

Not sure if it's related to new client or not, but what about the rake structure change at micros ?
I'm almost sure that before, at micro-stakes, a pot was raked only when 0.20€ were reached. Now, any flop is raked by default.

Am I wrong or did it indeed change recently ? If yes, any mention of it somewhere ?
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Old 08-06-2018, 12:35 PM   #88
MPN Alex
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Re: Official MPN - Microgaming Poker Network Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kropotking View Post
MPN-Alex, Your arguments are valid for innovative or experimental features but not for industry standards like „sit out next bb“ or „wait for bb“ when joining /leaving tables. Those are standard and can never fall into your „producing waste“ logic imo.
On the specific points above:

- The new client does have Wait for BB when joining a table. It is enabled by default, but you can turn it off if you want to play immediately.

- We have never had 'Sit Out Next BB' in any of our clients. This feature is on our backlog, however. I agree it's important.

Quote:
Thus, I think that even for a beta too much basic stuff is still missing. I had an alpha feeling and as we know you should not release an alpha to the general public or make it the default downloadable version as an operator (like Guts). And I still don’t get how stuff like this can happen in 2018 given all the available data, competition, market history etc.

I like MPN, your overall approach focusing on regs (VIP system, promos) and recs (game quality,looks and feel) alike but as i said before my first impression of the new client is simply disappointing.
Thanks for the feedback, even though it's hard to hear, it is appreciated.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Purasevic View Post
In this article I find this statement which is confusing to me:
`Players who buy in for 100BB are also the most likely to be winners – 47% of players who buy in for 100BB are net winners after rake. 44% of those who buy in for 30BB are winners.`


Usually over 70%of players are loosing,what I am missing here?
Those are real numbers from the study in question. I remember being surprised at the time and double-checking, as I too thought more players would be losers. Of course, it doesn't tell you how much is won by each group.

Quote:
Is it adding sit out next bb option to technically demanding to implement?
Not especially, no. We do plan to do it.

Quote:
Why not add option to start the table with 4 or 5 seated players for those,

like me, who don`t like playing shorthanded?
The system already attempts to seat you at a table which isn't shorthanded anyway, and will only seat you at a shorthanded table if there isn't a fuller alternative. This is because we know that lots of people don't like to play shorthanded.

Quote:
Originally Posted by babaar View Post
After 15(?) years of operating, getting data and feedback, you should know which parts of your service are essential.
I agree. However the reality was that in some cases, we knew very clearly what added value. The loyalty system, for example, or the achievements system (which is used in most promotions these days), or the ability to tile tables. All things we were certain added value.

In other cases, it was less clear. The features being cited most often in this thread are features that are used by a small number of players, who tend to be high-rakers. In such cases, figuring out the actual value of the features is much more difficult. A feature which is hardly used may be very valuable, if it's used by the right type of player. But this is not simple to figure out, especially because player value does not equal rake paid.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShowMeUrAce View Post
Hi,

Not sure if it's related to new client or not, but what about the rake structure change at micros ?
I'm almost sure that before, at micro-stakes, a pot was raked only when 0.20€ were reached. Now, any flop is raked by default.

Am I wrong or did it indeed change recently ? If yes, any mention of it somewhere ?
We did indeed fix an issue with micro-stakes rake a couple of months ago. The system was rounding down to zero and hence pots under 20c were never raked.

You can see the rake structures here: https://mpn.poker/rake/
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Old 08-06-2018, 02:01 PM   #89
rPaguHaP
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Re: Official MPN - Microgaming Poker Network Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by MPN Alex View Post
Because in any production system, you need to minimise waste. If you release a feature which is not used, then you have wasted the effort involved in developing it.
But if you don't release a feature, that is desirable from the player pool, you loose customers.

Most features don't need continuous management and if some options is used even by small % of people, over time there will be compound effect and seemingly wasted effort will turn into a well invested effort.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MPN Alex View Post
If we are going to produce the best poker software on the planet - and that is our intention - then we must waste less effort than everyone else in the marketplace.
Can you please define what is your understanding for "the best poker software on the planet".

For me the best software will suit the needs of the most players. Look at PS software - it is simple, yet still highly configurable. If you want to make the best software, you need to almost copy PS software. If I can, I would choose PS software to play on MPN network. More options = more happy players.
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Old 08-06-2018, 02:06 PM   #90
Fergastra
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Re: Official MPN - Microgaming Poker Network Thread

Yeah, not trying to rain on your parade or be mean but if the beta release of the prima client is striving to be the best software on the planet, than it has a looong way to go :/
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Old 08-06-2018, 02:24 PM   #91
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Re: Official MPN - Microgaming Poker Network Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by MPN Alex View Post
We did indeed fix an issue with micro-stakes rake a couple of months ago. The system was rounding down to zero and hence pots under 20c were never raked.

You can see the rake structures here: https://mpn.poker/rake/
Well, it didn't really "round down" to zero, it just correctly took 5% rake as announced on your rake page.
Instead, now, effective rake in a 0.05€ pot is actually 20%, and as you can guess, lot of pots are less than 0.10€ in 0.01/0.02, making the rake huge in % compared to other stakes.
And that, without any mention anywhere, not in MPN blog, not an e-mail by my room, nothing. "Transparent" did you say ?

It wasn't an "issue" for anyone except operators and it was the only correct rake-rate to apply since you promote 5% rake. Now it's more like 15-20% on average.
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Old 08-06-2018, 02:32 PM   #92
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Re: Official MPN - Microgaming Poker Network Thread

Hey mate,

can you please tell me where I can download the old client (RedKings)?
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Old 08-06-2018, 03:41 PM   #93
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Re: Official MPN - Microgaming Poker Network Thread

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Hey mate,

can you please tell me where I can download the old client (RedKings)?
At Guts Poker I asked support and they sent me the link. I guess RedKings will do the same
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Old 08-06-2018, 04:25 PM   #94
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Re: Official MPN - Microgaming Poker Network Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShowMeUrAce View Post
W...
And that, without any mention anywhere, not in MPN blog, not an e-mail by my room, nothing. "Transparent" did you say ?...
Reminds me of a great Pratchett quote (Not that I am saying that it applies here, it just reminds me of it :

‘And these are your reasons, my Lord?’
‘Do you think I have others?’ said Lord Vetinari. ‘My motives, as ever, are entirely transparent.’
Hughnon reflected that ‘entirely transparent’ meant either that you could see right through them or that you couldn’t see them at all.
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Old 08-07-2018, 04:48 AM   #95
MPN Alex
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Re: Official MPN - Microgaming Poker Network Thread

Version 37.02 of the new client starts rolling out today and will be live with all poker rooms by the 10th of August. This includes Grosvenor who will take Prima live for the first time on the 10th, now that their Goliath event has concluded.

It includes fixes for 8 issues, the most important of which is an issue which caused the table not to open in rare circumstances (it would get 'stuck' at 100% while loading).

Quote:
Originally Posted by rPaguHaP View Post
Can you please define what is your understanding for "the best poker software on the planet".
It's something of a moving target, as others are also improving their software. But I will know it when I see it.

You might remember the days when FTP used to post every six weeks on this forum, with details of their latest software update. Every time I saw that thread, my heart beat a little faster. I was excited to read it and find out what new features and innovations they were bringing to the market.

Nobody since has developed software that created that same feeling of excitement in me, as a poker player. I want to bring that feeling back.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShowMeUrAce View Post
And that, without any mention anywhere, not in MPN blog, not an e-mail by my room, nothing. "Transparent" did you say ?
In hindsight, I accept that we should have been more transparent. We didn't hide this change, but we didn't go out of our way to notify people either. I apologise for that.
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Old 08-07-2018, 06:53 AM   #96
KossuKukkula
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Re: Official MPN - Microgaming Poker Network Thread

When playing more than two tabels the fonts are way too small and everything else way too big like chips and avatars and casino btns. Hoping this is going to change in the near future. And playing without the pre btns for bets is just a pain in the ass. Especially when you cant youse scroll to choose betsizes.

Quote:
Version 37.02 of the new client starts rolling out today
What skins are rolling out first and what are the issues you fixed?
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Old 08-07-2018, 10:23 AM   #97
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Re: Official MPN - Microgaming Poker Network Thread

Funny that you say you enjoyed FTP publishing all their latest updates and features here but manage to not mention 7 out of 8 issues your own update includes...
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Old 08-07-2018, 10:47 AM   #98
MPN Alex
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Re: Official MPN - Microgaming Poker Network Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by KossuKukkula View Post
What skins are rolling out first and what are the issues you fixed?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kropotking View Post
Funny that you say you enjoyed FTP publishing all their latest updates and features here but manage to not mention 7 out of 8 issues your own update includes...
I will only be sharing details of updates if they are noteworthy. We roll out updates almost every single day, except weekends. It simply isn't feasible for me to share the details of every one.

Today's release is a minor bug-fix release and the only notable change is the one I highlighted.

I also don't intend to share the rollout plan every time, as it often changes at short notice, meaning it could be out of date minutes after I post it.
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Old 08-07-2018, 12:32 PM   #99
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Re: Official MPN - Microgaming Poker Network Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by MPN Alex View Post
It's something of a moving target, as others are also improving their software. But I will know it when I see it.
If you can't even define something that you want to achieve, what is the
possibility to achieve it? (don't need an answer)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MPN Alex View Post
You might remember the days when FTP used to post every six weeks on this forum, with details of their latest software update. Every time I saw that thread, my heart beat a little faster. I was excited to read it and find out what new features and innovations they were bringing to the market.
I don't remember that, because i'm only playing in MPN for a decade. But from few years, every time I saw the new changes in MPN, my heart stops for a few moments, I curse and I need a few minutes to calm down. I must admit that i'm surprised, that MPN still finds new ways to chase out the regular players. The new software is the pinnacle of years of effort in the same direction.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MPN Alex View Post
Nobody since has developed software that created that same feeling of excitement in me, as a poker player. I want to bring that feeling back.
You as a poker player? Is this a joke? -> Alex Scott from The Hendon Mob database
According to this profile, you had only one 9th place in a tournament 10 years ago.

The results from the changes from last few years is the proof, that you don't think like a poker player. For years MPN keep losing traffic and it getting worse.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MPN Alex View Post
I want to bring that feeling back.
I doubt that you would do it (I hope i'm wrong on this one), but only time will tell. For me, you are too proud to admit, that MPN had made a lot of mistakes in recent years and that is why they continue to loose players.

No more rant and negativity from me. I will try to focus on the positive. Here is a suggestion -> make it possible for players to remove the tick of "auto post BB" after the first orbit on the table (Like sit out button change after you post a BB).
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Old 08-07-2018, 01:56 PM   #100
MPN Alex
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Re: Official MPN - Microgaming Poker Network Thread

Ouch. That’s really tough to read. I understand why you’re frustrated though, my job now is to convince you that things are different.

So - judge me / us on what happens in the coming months. If we don’t deliver on what we’ve promised, hold me to account.

And if we ever meet in person, let’s play some poker together. You can choose the game.
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