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Old 07-23-2009, 05:50 PM   #101
mrwalken
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Re: I suspect Pitbull Poker has superusers!

Quote:
Originally Posted by xTBONEx View Post
One little detail that blows my mind about this thread... part of the superuser problem on AP/UB was that legitimate players were losing money.

Chester, somewhere at the start of this thread you mentioned that you cashed out a profit from PitBull. How is it that you're being cheated, yet you're still winning? You must be pretty good at the interweb pokerz.
well the superuser strategy described sounded pretty bizarre. maybe he's figured out how to exploit it!
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Old 07-23-2009, 05:56 PM   #102
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Re: I suspect Pitbull Poker has superusers!

I played on Pitbull wow..it was years ago when I first got into online poker....anyway..they gave me a free $10 and I even felt it was shady then.

The fact that there are a few low post count PB shills coming in here and trying to counter OP makes me think there might be something to this. That 6 2 hand gave me chills of the when the UB/AP thing started to unravel. You don't even see this at 2NL.

ruh roh
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Old 07-23-2009, 05:58 PM   #103
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Re: I suspect Pitbull Poker has superusers!

Quote:
Originally Posted by xTBONEx View Post
One little detail that blows my mind about this thread... part of the superuser problem on AP/UB was that legitimate players were losing money.

Chester, somewhere at the start of this thread you mentioned that you cashed out a profit from PitBull. How is it that you're being cheated, yet you're still winning? You must be pretty good at the interweb pokerz.
I'm pretty sure not everyone he faced was a superuser. If he only played against a suspected superuser every time he plays, they will be very easily caught.
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Old 07-23-2009, 06:04 PM   #104
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Re: I suspect Pitbull Poker has superusers!

Quote:
Originally Posted by xTBONEx View Post
One little detail that blows my mind about this thread... part of the superuser problem on AP/UB was that legitimate players were losing money.

Chester, somewhere at the start of this thread you mentioned that you cashed out a profit from PitBull. How is it that you're being cheated, yet you're still winning? You must be pretty good at the interweb pokerz.
If that blows your mind, I'm not sure how you make it through the day.

Obviously OP didn't play heads up with a super user every day for his entire career on PBP. The OP could have played 9 handed, with 1 super user and 8 other people who he could beat. Also, the (alleged) super user probably wasn't a complete idiot (although making those hero calls is pretty obvious), and tried to play against different opponents to not appear so obvious.

I honestly don't know how anyone with a super user account could be so dumb. If I had one of these I'd never get caught. Play lower stakes, move around, play some MTT's for gods sake (but not a 10k one like the morons from AP/UB).
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Old 07-23-2009, 06:52 PM   #105
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Re: I suspect Pitbull Poker has superusers!

Quote:
Originally Posted by pbdave View Post
Hi guys,

I want to quote Cainer who has been the ONLY one who understand how the process works:

"All i am saying is that if i was the boss of Pitbull poker and I received an email from a customer who has suspicions of shady play on my site, and provides me with the players names, u can bet the farm i would investigate this further.

I'd by pulling up the hands of these players and examine their playing styles, to determine if what Chester is stating is true or fiction. If i found nothing alarming, id then email Chester and explain to him my findings. Of course I wouldn't reveal the hands but, id at least say the play of the players mentioned were reviewed and nothing out of the ordinary was found."

Not once Chesterboy has sent me such details, he describes the hands a "hero bets", "villain raises", "mate calls"... how am I supposed to give credibility to such complaints when I am not given the adequate information. I don't need to know you have cashed 7 figure numbers, or how many years you have played this game online, or how many sites. I mean let's get real, that's peanuts when it comes to making an accusation. I can only work with data that actually exists on the system, otherwise is like shouting to an empty room.

...

Thanks again to everyone.

Dave Brenes
Network Manager
Pitbull Poker
Pitbull Partners
This is bs, in December I sent Dave all the details of the players I suspected with the relevant dates and this is the email I got in reply which shows he did no investigation at all. The other interesting thing is that he says it's no problem to send me the hand histories in a file (although I still don't have them after 6 months of reminding him once a month) but now suddenly it's too much work when this should be no 1 priority for the site in order to clear it's name.

Hi Brent,

I am pleased to meet you, my name is Dave Brenes and I help Jordan and the guys running the operations here. Jordan asked me to look after your case as I normally look on these sort of issues and I am more familiar with the situation.

Regarding your last email, I can understand how frustrating it could be when players donít make sense on their play (I play poker myself too), yet the members you mentioned would not have been able to do such a thing as hacking into our system and into our database to collect such information. Our security double key encrypted system cannot be bypassed, plus the internal password is updated constantly and we run a system check for every query made to the server. In no case the game can be accessed and, furthermore, cannot display on screen the cards of the other players.

Additionally, your request to obtain the hand histories of the involved players cannot be fulfilled. It would be a violation to our Privacy Agreement, in which we commit to respect every playerís right to keep their cards unknown, and such agreement applies to all members of our poker room including you. To maintain the integrity of our game and our company we must respect the privacy of the players and if they did not show their cards at any moment we cannot, under any circumstance, display them publicly to any third party. We can only send you the hand history of your play with your cards and the cards that were shown either by decision of the player or in the showdown.

Rest assured that the players you mentioned and any other do not have the capability to access our servers and see such sensitive information.

Feel free to contact us if you need anything else. Thank you.


Regards,

Dave Brenes

Network Manager

Pitbull Gaming

www.pitbullgaming.com

Phone: (514) 907.9324

Skype: dave.brenes
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Old 07-23-2009, 07:02 PM   #106
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Re: I suspect Pitbull Poker has superusers!

As a poker player and a programmer, Id absolutely never play on a site where they claim they cannot query their databases for hand histories. If they cannot do something that simple to clean their name up, what more can you expect from the security aspect?

Anyways Ive been looking for smaller sites to sign up for bonuses, clearly this is out of the list. At least until the people responsible man up and give up the info.

Seriously...
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Old 07-23-2009, 07:12 PM   #107
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Re: I suspect Pitbull Poker has superusers!

Guys,

This thread is getting out of proportion.

Let me clarify something once and for all:

The reasoning I gave you for the small sites like ours not needing a superuser was a reference to AP/UB, it clearly got misunderstood and now you all are making assumptions and thinking and I am trying to mislead you. I was merely making an example, as it seems my explanation was not followed through I don't think I can provide you a secondary explanation that will not make you try to find the "catch". So I will just say this: Our site, first instance, does not allows super user accounts because of the coding we established, I cannot show you the code to prove such accounts are not part of it because it is in a programming language 90% of the people here won't understand (including me) and also because we can't show the core of our coding for everyone to see and expose our system integrity.

Second, we don’t encourage, don’t like and do not support practices that are illegal and shady, we do not have the traffic many sites do, and we don’t make money like FTP or PS or UB/AP, but we are not greedy money-craving thieves that want to take advantage of the traffic we generate because it makes no sense to us, we are not bandits, we are honest people trying to make a living. We have issues like many poker rooms have had, and we everything we can to bring solutions as fast and as effective as we can. We can’t reach certain levels of quality yet, but we are intending to reach them eventually and because of such projections we do not believe that abusing of our players will help, in fact it will only destroy us. Superuser accounts are disgusting and we feel pretty upset that we are target of such accusations, we find that offensive.

We have tried to cool things off and maintain a level of serenity with you all. We understand a forum is a public venue where everyone gets to say what they feel whether they can back it up or not, but for us is also a venue to reach players more often, to be open to every comment, suggestion or doubt people could have about our product and services. And to all of them we respond to the best of our capabilities, but unfortunately not everyone can be pleased the same and always, and that’s a reality we all have to face.

Chesterboy is running a campaign against us, using his fellow mates and this forum to force doing what he wants, as he stated previously. I wish things were resolved amicably and there was a higher degree of communication and understanding but it seems many refuse to follow such way and choose to believe what the rest is saying. We are not lying about the work it represents for us to send 1000 HHs in the format requested, we are terribly sorry if our technology is not up to the expectations of the people here, but we design the software in a different way, even I personally cannot see hands in such format from my admin system, I also see the same graphic end and one by one. Whether it is a good or bad technology to review hands it has nothing to do with us hiding or ignoring or lying about it. We simply cannot take the time to send HHs by the hundreds and thousands to our players; this is why we put the feature to get your hand histories from the game.

I understand when you say that I am not qualified to review the hands with our Fraud department because it would be convenient; however you also need to consider the following:

1. Chesterboy is not anywhere more qualified than us as he is also involved in the issue and we would not be treated fairly if he was the one to review the hands along with his friends. And unlike Chester assumed, I do know how to spot collusion at the tables, I have spent long hours in the past reviewing hand histories at previous places and have done pretty good.
2. We cannot show the full hand history because we cannot show the hole cards of the other players, so the analysis would be biased and would not serve the purpose.
3. If we send once 1000 hands to one player it means we would have to send those amounts of hands to any player that request them at any time, otherwise it wouldn’t be fair and we cannot comply with such requests because our DB would get overloaded and we can’t let that happen.

Ultimately, we have the best intentions, and we feel we have not been unreasonable and we have not been abusive with any of our players or partners in any way to be in the spotlight and subject to so many insults and mistreatments as you have displayed here. Everyone is entitled to its opinion, but it is different when you take opportunity to smash down the name and the people of a place you don’t even know.

Thank you all.

Regards,

Dave Brenes
Network Manager
Pitbull Poker
Pitbull Partners
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Old 07-23-2009, 07:16 PM   #108
Andyfothershops
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Re: I suspect Pitbull Poker has superusers!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby Izzabott View Post
You are obviously just defaming the site. Your reasons are beyond me, but in almost all cases like this it is because there is a losing player who don't like sour grapes.

I had left the thread. But now that you have told me to get lost, i think I will make it my mission to comment on every absurd idea you present.

Oh, another big LOL on you using IRS documents to prove your results. If i did not know better I would be sure this is a level. However, it is apparent your attempt is slander. Did you know that this is against the rules at 2+2? If this poker site were based in the US, your comments (and crappy play for that matter), would be criminal.
[]slander

I make up my winning stats and pay hudge taxes on them just for barging rights too, lots of losing players do this imo

Also if the poker site were based in the US, OP wouldn't be the one with the legal problems lol
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Old 07-23-2009, 07:20 PM   #109
Andyfothershops
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Re: I suspect Pitbull Poker has superusers!

Quote:
Originally Posted by pbdave View Post
Guys,

This thread is getting out of proportion.

Let me clarify something once and for all:

The reasoning I gave you for the small sites like ours not needing a superuser was a reference to AP/UB, it clearly got misunderstood and now you all are making assumptions and thinking and I am trying to mislead you. I was merely making an example, as it seems my explanation was not followed through I don't think I can provide you a secondary explanation that will not make you try to find the "catch". So I will just say this: Our site, first instance, does not allows super user accounts because of the coding we established, I cannot show you the code to prove such accounts are not part of it because it is in a programming language 90% of the people here won't understand (including me) and also because we can't show the core of our coding for everyone to see and expose our system integrity.

Second, we donít encourage, donít like and do not support practices that are illegal and shady, we do not have the traffic many sites do, and we donít make money like FTP or PS or UB/AP, but we are not greedy money-craving thieves that want to take advantage of the traffic we generate because it makes no sense to us, we are not bandits, we are honest people trying to make a living. We have issues like many poker rooms have had, and we everything we can to bring solutions as fast and as effective as we can. We canít reach certain levels of quality yet, but we are intending to reach them eventually and because of such projections we do not believe that abusing of our players will help, in fact it will only destroy us. Superuser accounts are disgusting and we feel pretty upset that we are target of such accusations, we find that offensive.

We have tried to cool things off and maintain a level of serenity with you all. We understand a forum is a public venue where everyone gets to say what they feel whether they can back it up or not, but for us is also a venue to reach players more often, to be open to every comment, suggestion or doubt people could have about our product and services. And to all of them we respond to the best of our capabilities, but unfortunately not everyone can be pleased the same and always, and thatís a reality we all have to face.

Chesterboy is running a campaign against us, using his fellow mates and this forum to force doing what he wants, as he stated previously. I wish things were resolved amicably and there was a higher degree of communication and understanding but it seems many refuse to follow such way and choose to believe what the rest is saying. We are not lying about the work it represents for us to send 1000 HHs in the format requested, we are terribly sorry if our technology is not up to the expectations of the people here, but we design the software in a different way, even I personally cannot see hands in such format from my admin system, I also see the same graphic end and one by one. Whether it is a good or bad technology to review hands it has nothing to do with us hiding or ignoring or lying about it. We simply cannot take the time to send HHs by the hundreds and thousands to our players; this is why we put the feature to get your hand histories from the game.

I understand when you say that I am not qualified to review the hands with our Fraud department because it would be convenient; however you also need to consider the following:

1. Chesterboy is not anywhere more qualified than us as he is also involved in the issue and we would not be treated fairly if he was the one to review the hands along with his friends. And unlike Chester assumed, I do know how to spot collusion at the tables, I have spent long hours in the past reviewing hand histories at previous places and have done pretty good.
2. We cannot show the full hand history because we cannot show the hole cards of the other players, so the analysis would be biased and would not serve the purpose.
3. If we send once 1000 hands to one player it means we would have to send those amounts of hands to any player that request them at any time, otherwise it wouldnít be fair and we cannot comply with such requests because our DB would get overloaded and we canít let that happen.

Ultimately, we have the best intentions, and we feel we have not been unreasonable and we have not been abusive with any of our players or partners in any way to be in the spotlight and subject to so many insults and mistreatments as you have displayed here. Everyone is entitled to its opinion, but it is different when you take opportunity to smash down the name and the people of a place you donít even know.

Thank you all.

Regards,

Dave Brenes
Network Manager
Pitbull Poker
Pitbull Partners
If you are so sure about the integrity of the site, surely its worth whatever time it takes to prove it, if it can be done by a programmer, pay one. Otherwise it seems to me you won't have much of a business left. UB and AP only survived because of the huge numbers of people playing there. As a site which seems to already have financial difficulties, you are screwed if you don't resolve this one way or the other.
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Old 07-23-2009, 07:24 PM   #110
system32
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Re: I suspect Pitbull Poker has superusers!

Ok i dont play at PB but i can promise i never will with this crap going on,

Cant review hands,,,,,,,,

[x] Ultimate Bet in the making
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Old 07-23-2009, 07:25 PM   #111
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Re: I suspect Pitbull Poker has superusers!

Dave 1000 hands may not in fact be necessary. Even 200 hands should be enough to see if they are playing honestly. At this point I would actually take the time required to retrieve 100 odd hands from your website but the hands are now no longer there. Is there another location I can get them from? Surely retrieving 200 hands won't take too long? In the 6 months of our correspondence you indicated getting me the hands wouldn't be a problem even if you had a new excuse every month, yet suddenly it is??
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Old 07-23-2009, 07:26 PM   #112
KEW
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Re: I suspect Pitbull Poker has superusers!

Quote:
Originally Posted by pbdave View Post
Guys,

This thread is getting out of proportion.

Let me clarify something once and for all:

The reasoning I gave you for the small sites like ours not needing a superuser was a reference to AP/UB, it clearly got misunderstood and now you all are making assumptions and thinking and I am trying to mislead you. I was merely making an example, as it seems my explanation was not followed through I don't think I can provide you a secondary explanation that will not make you try to find the "catch". So I will just say this: Our site, first instance, does not allows super user accounts because of the coding we established, I cannot show you the code to prove such accounts are not part of it because it is in a programming language 90% of the people here won't understand (including me) and also because we can't show the core of our coding for everyone to see and expose our system integrity.

Second, we don’t encourage, don’t like and do not support practices that are illegal and shady, we do not have the traffic many sites do, and we don’t make money like FTP or PS or UB/AP, but we are not greedy money-craving thieves that want to take advantage of the traffic we generate because it makes no sense to us, we are not bandits, we are honest people trying to make a living. We have issues like many poker rooms have had, and we everything we can to bring solutions as fast and as effective as we can. We can’t reach certain levels of quality yet, but we are intending to reach them eventually and because of such projections we do not believe that abusing of our players will help, in fact it will only destroy us. Superuser accounts are disgusting and we feel pretty upset that we are target of such accusations, we find that offensive.

We have tried to cool things off and maintain a level of serenity with you all. We understand a forum is a public venue where everyone gets to say what they feel whether they can back it up or not, but for us is also a venue to reach players more often, to be open to every comment, suggestion or doubt people could have about our product and services. And to all of them we respond to the best of our capabilities, but unfortunately not everyone can be pleased the same and always, and that’s a reality we all have to face.

Chesterboy is running a campaign against us, using his fellow mates and this forum to force doing what he wants, as he stated previously. I wish things were resolved amicably and there was a higher degree of communication and understanding but it seems many refuse to follow such way and choose to believe what the rest is saying. We are not lying about the work it represents for us to send 1000 HHs in the format requested, we are terribly sorry if our technology is not up to the expectations of the people here, but we design the software in a different way, even I personally cannot see hands in such format from my admin system, I also see the same graphic end and one by one. Whether it is a good or bad technology to review hands it has nothing to do with us hiding or ignoring or lying about it. We simply cannot take the time to send HHs by the hundreds and thousands to our players; this is why we put the feature to get your hand histories from the game.

I understand when you say that I am not qualified to review the hands with our Fraud department because it would be convenient; however you also need to consider the following:

1. Chesterboy is not anywhere more qualified than us as he is also involved in the issue and we would not be treated fairly if he was the one to review the hands along with his friends. And unlike Chester assumed, I do know how to spot collusion at the tables, I have spent long hours in the past reviewing hand histories at previous places and have done pretty good.
2. We cannot show the full hand history because we cannot show the hole cards of the other players, so the analysis would be biased and would not serve the purpose.
3. If we send once 1000 hands to one player it means we would have to send those amounts of hands to any player that request them at any time, otherwise it wouldn’t be fair and we cannot comply with such requests because our DB would get overloaded and we can’t let that happen.

Ultimately, we have the best intentions, and we feel we have not been unreasonable and we have not been abusive with any of our players or partners in any way to be in the spotlight and subject to so many insults and mistreatments as you have displayed here. Everyone is entitled to its opinion, but it is different when you take opportunity to smash down the name and the people of a place you don’t even know.

Thank you all.

Regards,

Dave Brenes
Network Manager
Pitbull Poker
Pitbull Partners
This is a ridiculous reply of no value...This reply alone is enough of a reason why no one should EVER play on your site...Every reply you give and constant refusal to provide the HHs makes OPs claim more and more believable and also that it is an "inside" job....The "technical" and "privacy" excuses are pure BS...
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Old 07-23-2009, 07:29 PM   #113
system32
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Re: I suspect Pitbull Poker has superusers!

Quote:
Originally Posted by KEW View Post
This is a ridiculous reply of no value...This reply alone is enough of a reason why no one should EVER play on your site...Every reply you give and constant refusal to provide the HHs makes OPs claim more and more believable and also that it is an "inside" job....The "technical" and "privacy" excuses are pure BS...
wonder will 60 minutes do another show?
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Old 07-23-2009, 07:32 PM   #114
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Re: I suspect Pitbull Poker has superusers!

Quote:
Originally Posted by pbdave View Post
3. If we send once 1000 hands to one player it means we would have to send those amounts of hands to any player that request them at any time, otherwise it wouldnít be fair and we cannot comply with such requests because our DB would get overloaded and we canít let that happen.


no. it means u have to send 1k hands out once and keep telling everybody else that it's too hard. only good things can come from it too:

1.either it turns out the guys just been running well

2.u catch a superuser. now that's obviously nothing you hope to find, but i'm sure u would want to know that those excist, so u can get rid of them
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Old 07-23-2009, 07:37 PM   #115
KEW
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Re: I suspect Pitbull Poker has superusers!

Quote:
Originally Posted by system32 View Post
wonder will 60 minutes do another show?
I hope not...If PitBull continue to refuse the HH request I can easily see this ending PitBull esp considering how small they are and PB's reliance on props...After this who would even prop for them...
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Old 07-23-2009, 07:38 PM   #116
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Re: I suspect Pitbull Poker has superusers!

Quote:
Originally Posted by pbdave View Post

we are honest people...

we are not greedy money-craving thieves

We are not lying

Good enough for me...I think

Last edited by Sevenfold; 07-23-2009 at 07:44 PM.
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Old 07-23-2009, 07:57 PM   #117
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Re: I suspect Pitbull Poker has superusers!

Ive never tryed pbp and i dont think i will untill this gets resolved.
Good luck
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Old 07-23-2009, 08:07 PM   #118
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Re: I suspect Pitbull Poker has superusers!

I got pointed to this thread and just finished reading it.

If someone sends me the hand histories in some vaguely readable format (including graphical), I will take some time and look at them.

I do obviously have a third or fourth-hand stake in the outcome, but not one that would compromise my integrity. In addition, I can assure you that I have never played nor probably will play at Pitbull Poker (too small + no big MTT's = no point depositing) and will therefore have no idea who any of these people/accounts are or gain any advantage from reviewing the hands. Finally, in the past, I have been able to determine a superuser was at work without ever looking at hands that were not shown down, although seeing everyone's cards would of course be preferable.

I will, of course, keep the hands confidential if my offer is accepted and will simply post my findings.
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Old 07-23-2009, 08:09 PM   #119
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Re: I suspect Pitbull Poker has superusers!

Quote:
Originally Posted by pbdave View Post
Guys,


Chesterboy is running a campaign against us, using his fellow mates and this forum to force doing what he wants, as he stated previously. I wish things were resolved amicably and there was a higher degree of communication and understanding but it seems many refuse to follow such way and choose to believe what the rest is saying.

1. Chesterboy is not anywhere more qualified than us as he is also involved in the issue and we would not be treated fairly if he was the one to review the hands along with his friends. And unlike Chester assumed, I do know how to spot collusion at the tables, I have spent long hours in the past reviewing hand histories at previous places and have done pretty good.
2. We cannot show the full hand history because we cannot show the hole cards of the other players, so the analysis would be biased and would not serve the purpose.

Hi Dave,

I am sorry too that it has become this sort of discussion. I warned you in our pm's that I was going to do this if pitbull didn't become more cooperative and you told me very clearly that I was simply out of luck, that you can't help me and don't plan to try.

1. I agree. Lets get the hands out there and let some skilled and unbiased players evaluate them.

2. We don't need to see the other players cards. Just normal hand histories will be quite sufficient.
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Old 07-23-2009, 08:10 PM   #120
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Re: I suspect Pitbull Poker has superusers!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rapala View Post

Hi Brent,

I am pleased to meet you, my name is Dave Brenes and I help Jordan and the guys running the operations here. Jordan asked me to look after your case as I normally look on these sort of issues and I am more familiar with the situation.

Regarding your last email, I can understand how frustrating it could be when players donít make sense on their play (I play poker myself too), yet the members you mentioned would not have been able to do such a thing as hacking into our system and into our database to collect such information. Our security double key encrypted system cannot be bypassed, plus the internal password is updated constantly and we run a system check for every query made to the server. In no case the game can be accessed and, furthermore, cannot display on screen the cards of the other players.

Additionally, your request to obtain the hand histories of the involved players cannot be fulfilled. It would be a violation to our Privacy Agreement, in which we commit to respect every playerís right to keep their cards unknown, and such agreement applies to all members of our poker room including you. To maintain the integrity of our game and our company we must respect the privacy of the players and if they did not show their cards at any moment we cannot, under any circumstance, display them publicly to any third party. We can only send you the hand history of your play with your cards and the cards that were shown either by decision of the player or in the showdown.

Rest assured that the players you mentioned and any other do not have the capability to access our servers and see such sensitive information.

Feel free to contact us if you need anything else. Thank you.


Regards,

Dave Brenes

Network Manager

Pitbull Gaming

www.pitbullgaming.com

Phone: (514) 907.9324

Skype: dave.brenes



Quote:
Originally Posted by pbdave View Post
Guys,

3. If we send once 1000 hands to one player it means we would have to send those amounts of hands to any player that request them at any time, otherwise it wouldnít be fair and we cannot comply with such requests because our DB would get overloaded and we canít let that happen.

Ultimately, we have the best intentions, and we feel we have not been unreasonable and we have not been abusive with any of our players or partners in any way to be in the spotlight and subject to so many insults and mistreatments as you have displayed here. Everyone is entitled to its opinion, but it is different when you take opportunity to smash down the name and the people of a place you donít even know.

Thank you all.

Regards,

Dave Brenes
Network Manager
Pitbull Poker
Pitbull Partners
Which is it Dave?!
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Old 07-23-2009, 08:14 PM   #121
adanthar
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Re: I suspect Pitbull Poker has superusers!

Quote:
Originally Posted by chesterboy View Post
Here are a few hands vs the same player that I played, after I began to suspect cheating and I wanted to test it.

In both hands I was in position and they were the blind.

I open 5 9 suited, flop was 2 3 7 rainbow or something. $30 pot. He donks $10, I raise to $40. He calls. Brick turn. $110 pot. He donks $10 again, I raise to $100, he calls. I river a 5, he checks, I check behind, and he shows A 10 or A J.

Next hand:

I open A 10 offsuit, miss flop. Hand plays out exactly the same, except this time he donks $10 again on the river. I call and he shows A J, and beats me with Ace high better kicker.

My fellow players experience similiar things. None of us every managed to beat these players in a signifigant pot except like in the 5 9 hand where I sucked out. It was suspicous enough that it should warrant a little effort by the site to prove the integrity of their games.
Incidentally, this is a completely standard line that bad players take all the time and proves exactly nothing other than "the site is super soft but you probably shouldn't open 95o"
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Old 07-23-2009, 08:19 PM   #122
chesterboy
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Re: I suspect Pitbull Poker has superusers!

Quote:
Originally Posted by adanthar View Post
Incidentally, this is a completely standard line that bad players take all the time and proves exactly nothing other than "the site is super soft but you probably shouldn't open 95o"
I agree, that is why we need more than just single hands here and there. I have never faced opponents that can make this sort of play with perfect accuracy before. Quite frankly I can't remember them ever making these plays when they didn't have me beat.
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Old 07-23-2009, 08:19 PM   #123
Jomaha8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chesterboy View Post






Hi Bryan,

Thanks for your PM, I have credited the $20 for you already.

I understand what you mean, and I'd appreciate if you can send me the link to the thread so I can take look at it.










from pbdave:

I understand your point, but I am not ignoring you. xxx has been in communication with us too. Calm down, I will look after your request to go to the xxx forum, I have on my list of pending tasks, I will get there. Be patient please.

end message

That is a nice thing to say, but considering I sent you the link it is simply a matter of clicking it! That only takes a minute, and you can quickly get the drift of the thread. If you are too busy to read it let me sum things up for you in a concise manner:

1. We think that someone that owns or works for pitbull poker is cheating the players by using the ability to see our hole cards.

2. To investigate this further, we would like our hand histories sent to us in a useable format so that we can either confirm the cheating or to show that it is just our imagination.

Thanks
Bryan

Hi Bryan,

I already opened an account at the forum. I will visit you guys and post there regarding this matter.

1. No, that's not the case, such accounts do not exist.

2. You can pull hands from the system, we cannot request hundreds of hands from different accounts from the DB, it's an overwhelming task for the system.

Thanks!

from me:

The problem with the hands system available to us is that it can't be systematically analyzed unless we sit there and manually enter them into a readable format that could be plugged in to a database. Surely you have some sort of back end database that could be queried? If you could just provide the raw data we could sort it out without too much trouble.

I appreciate that you do not believe such accounts to exist, but my experiences and those of others have us convinced we are being cheating. I have played full time for 7 years on countless sites and millions of hands and have never experienced anything like the play on pitbull, and the same is true of my fellow players.



Bryan,

As much as I understand your position, the hand history requests are made through the system we put available for the players on the game.

I do not "believe", I know there are not accounts like that.

I am starting to feel you and your group of friends are turning this into a witch hunt, and I simply will not take part of it. I know everyone went crazy with AP's scandal and thinking now that every time they "feel" something might be wrong it has to be a super user account, but it is not always the case. In fact, that was AP's and UB's case, and that's it. You cannot think every poker site you suspect of has the same problem.

Regards,

Dave


Dave,

I have played on at least 30 sites for 7 years. Never once have I suspected cheating, except on wpx when I was playing with colluders. I have faced patterns of play on your site that can only be explained by my opponent seeing the cards. At least 10 other players have reached the same conclusion independantly. All of us are very experienced and none of us have ever accused a site of this before. A few of us have won over 7 figures in our careers. We know a lot about this game! Your site can only be exhonerated by sending us complete hand histories which despite what you say I know is possible. Any competent programmer could come up with a way to convert the data into a sendable form. It simply has to be in a decent database format considering the quantity of hands that it must contain. Of course if any site does not have competent programmers it is pitbull, but still this should be doable. Trust me that it is in your best interest to do this if you are innocent as we are going to plaster this all over the web if we don't get our hand histories. Your site already has a horrible reputation as is clear from your support thread. Quite frankly if you don't have the ability to do anything with hand histories it means that you guys have no ability to investigate collusion or other forms of cheating. You mention the AP UB thing and all that has taught us is that we have to be on the lookout for cheaters because not all sites can be trusted. If you can't give us any futher hand history info you look guilty as can be and I can assure you the internet poker community will see it the same way. Myself and the others that suspect cheating have been members of this community for quite some time and our opinions and accounts of our experiences on your site will carry a lot of weight in the minds of our fellow players. Please see what you can do to get these histories. I can assure you if you get them and everything looks OK we will happily continue to play on and support your site throught he xxxx program, and encourage others to do so.

Thanks
Bryan



Bryan,

This absurd hunt is getting out of proportion. Your tone and threats are less than appreciated and we frankly have not done anything to you or your fellow players to deserve this sort of treatment, unfortunately you insist in believing you have the right to treat a poker room as you please and as you see fit. I do not doubt of your first hand experience playing poker but intuition is not a subject of interest for regulatory purposes.

You previously said:

ďAny competent programmer could come up with a way to convert the data into a sendable formĒ

Even if it were as you think, our stored data is on an archive server, in fact on three, we simply donít have the time and resources to spend on weeks of data mining to please demands coming from a personal hunch. You have access to your hand history through the site as any player, you may download the hands you want and need from there.

You also said ďÖit can't be systematically analyzed unless we sit there and manually enter them into a readable format that could be plugged in to a databaseĒ. The hands are in the format they are programmed to be displayed from the servers, thatís the only format we provide, you are in your right to request your hand history, but we have our right to decide what the format is to display as long as it is readable by the player.

Another one of your comments:

ďTrust me that it is in your best interest to do this if you are innocent as we are going to plaster this all over the web if we don't get our hand histories.Ē

Another empty threatÖ honestly we find no interest to siege war against players over threats that lead no where. If you have a formal and real foundation to complaint about our company you should find the proper venues to do so.

ďIf you can't give us any further hand history info you look guilty as can be and I can assure you the internet poker community will see it the same way.Ē

Just because you say something doesnít mean it is real. Guilty is a judgment one can only make when can prove such guiltiness; otherwise innocence is the natural state.

With all that said, I will not pursue this subject with you anymore as I have given you all the answers accordingly.

Good day.

Thanks
Dave


Dave,

Fair enough. We obviously are gonna disagree on this. Lets take it to the forum so you can address everyone as I group.

Thanks
Bryan


there were a few messages regarding access to the private forum which aren't relevant so I didn't include them.

He promised a few days ago to post by the end of the day and he has been a no-show.

Here is the email exchange from the other player regarding hand history format:

From: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 10:17 AM
To: 'Dave Brenes'
Subject: RE: PitbullPoker

Hi Dave,

Thanks for your reply. I understand your position of violating privacy if you sent me their hands. If you are able to send my hand histories then this would be appreciated. I know that I can see past hands on the website but using the site to quickly scan hands is slow and laborious so if you are able to send me a file with a couple hundred of my latest hands it would be great.

Thanks and regards

xxxxxxx

Hi xxxxx,

Sure, we can send you your hand history, please send me the specific dates you want to review so we can narrow down the specific range of hands you want to review. Cheers!

Regards,

Dave Brenes
Network Manager
Pitbull Gaming
www.pitbullgaming.com
Phone: (514) 907.9324
Skype: dave.brenes


And after 3 months of what assume is putting him off pbdave sent this:

From: Dave Brenes [mailto:dave@pitbullgaming.com]
Sent: 17 March 09 11:41 PM
To:
Subject: Hand History


Hi xxxxx,

My deepest apologies but the DB Manager was never able to make room for your request since there was always something happening that prevented him to do it. The request is made, however we lost the DB manager and another programmer in less than a week, thus our organizational structure and the task load has been forced to be redistributed altering the course of requests and pending projects. I will give my absolute dedication to follow up on your request but I need to deal with an unexpected issue that is putting to wait all my tasks related to the IT department. I hope to give you more answer during the week. Cheers!


Regards,
Dave Brenes
Network Manager
Pitbull Gaming
www.pitbullgaming.com


He can post more details if you need them when he sees this thread but I think that covers it well enough.
Call me captain obvious: The DB Manager and other programmer both abruptly quit after months of pestering from Dave to review hand history in reguards to alleged cheating. Suspects??
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Old 07-23-2009, 08:23 PM   #124
adanthar
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Re: I suspect Pitbull Poker has superusers!

also, PBDeepThroat and that johns1124 guy are the same person and have now obviously been banned
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Old 07-23-2009, 08:25 PM   #125
sincityalpha
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Re: I suspect Pitbull Poker has superusers!

Wow, just f***ing wow at pbdave's reply ITT. Is this dude for real? If he is, he has got to be one of the dumbest people around. Until today I haven't even herd of PBP, after reading dave's post it's CLEAR that this poker site is SHADY as hell.

To the rest of the viewers and participants in this thread, in all fairness to this dummy dave, he is simply too dumb for those who are likely to be super-using to let him into the loop. So it's quite possible that he actually belives that his site is fair and has no superusers.

come'on dave, get real! You claim that your code does not allow for superusers and yet you yourself proclaim that you have no technical aptitude or education to decipher the programing code. So how the F*** do you know that superuser capabilities are not possible?
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