Now maybe you can see why we are asking for a little assistance from pitbull on this!

Rather clearly misleading earlier post:

I don't play on Pitbull so I can't say anything out of experience, but this thread seems "a bit" unreal.

@ OP what did you get the $20 for?

Peace
PokerWorker

Hehe looking through one of the 400/800 nl sessions vs the same player is shows the blinds being 25/50, 10/20, 15/30, and i didn't bother looking at the rest of them. Silly stuff.

They have a daily rake race. 1st and 2nd are 300 and 150. To get the points credited to you for that day you need to close tables before the contest ends. I was going by the lobby time and closed my tables at 5 minutes till. Unfortunately for me the lobby time was 15 minutes off and I got 2nd place. Support insists that this isn't possible and I am obviously a paranoid delusional. But dave threw me a $20 bone cuz he is nice, but I still think he is a cheater or works for cheaters.

Here is the chat with "support". Mainly for entertainment value. It still gives me a chuckle.

Please wait while we find an agent to assist you...
You have been connected to Derek ..
Derek .: Hello, Bryan! Welcome to Live Customer Support! How may I be of your assistance?
Bryan: hello, i got 2nd in the rake race that just ended 40 minutes ago
Bryan: but i should get 1st. i left my open tables at 11:58 according to the server
Bryan: but those points were credited to the next day, so i only got 2nd place
Derek .: im really sorry sir, we dont change this, the list is automatic by the system
Derek .: this wont change sir.
Bryan: yeah but the system made a mistake
Bryan: i played by the rules and a sofware glitch cost my $150
Derek .: im sorry sir this never happened
Bryan: what never happened?
Derek .: an issue about the list
Bryan: the server time was wrong, that is not my fault
Derek .: im sorry sir, but the server hasn't change anything
Bryan: what does that mean?
Derek .: you said the time was wrong
Bryan: i don't understand that sentence
Derek .: hasnt changed*
Bryan: yeah i was watching the time on the top left corner of the lobby and i left when it said it was about 2 minutes to the hour
Bryan: but then when i checked later my cashier said i left those tables at 4 minutes after the hour
Derek .: im really sorry sir but the system is working properly and you got the second place because you didn't get enough comp points.
Bryan: no the system is not working properly, everything about your software is messed up including the times
Bryan: sometimes i get my cards dealt face down to me, don't tell me your system works fine!
Derek .: this happends when a connection has a delays
Bryan: i was still playing at my tables, so my connection was fine
Derek .: I said delays not connection crashed sir
Bryan: well if i was still playing at my poker games, without delay, and your clock on your lobby was 6 minutes behind, how is that my fault?
Derek .: the time of the system is the same also for the list
Derek .: the fact that you have a diference with your clock is not our fault
Bryan: I WAS USING THE CLOCK IN THE POKER LOBBY
Derek .: you must use for all the site purposes the time of the site
Bryan: ON YOUR SOFTWARE
Bryan: I know that is why i was using YOUR time
Bryan: and that is why i am talking to you, if i was using the wrong time on my own computer i obviously wouldn't be complaining
Bryan: i am complaining because the poker software gave me the wrong time
Derek .: im sorry sir but you are claiming the 1st place, when you got the second is not possible we cant give you the 1st place
Bryan: are you just ignoring everything i just told you?
Derek .: no sir, i wont, but this doesnt mean that you can get the 1st is not possible.
Bryan: what is the reason?
Derek .: the site is working properly and there is no reason that why we should consider give you the 1st please
Bryan: the site is not working properly
Bryan: you have the buggiest software of any site in existence!
Derek .: Is there anything else I can assist you with at this time?
Bryan: you could respond to the things i am typing for one, instead of ignoring it, and acting like your site works properly
Bryan: or if you don't want to do that you could put me in contact with someone that can
Derek .: im not ignoring you,
Derek .: im talking with another players thru the chats
Bryan: yeah, but you are telling me your site works properly when anyone that plays on your site can tell you otherwise
Bryan: do you believe me when i say that your lobby clock was 6 minutes off?
Derek .: well as I told you can be even 1000 minutes off, but the list will use the current time
Bryan: so even if the poker site says it is a certain time, that is not really the official time?
Derek .: the official time of the site is the lobby's
Derek .: what im trying to say is that if the pokers clock shows a time 5 minutes off
Bryan: well that is the time i was using. Do you understand that is why i am complaining?
Derek .: this doesnt matter becuase the time in the site is the same
Bryan: i was using the lobby clock!
Derek .: for all the process
Derek .: yes I know you were using the lobbys clock
Bryan: the lobby clock told me it was 2 minutes to go
Derek .: but about the 5 minutes off,
Bryan: you just told me that the lobby time is the official time
Derek .: this wont affect you
Derek .: or is the site taking off 5 minutes once in while?
Bryan: no, normally it ticks 1 minute at a time like any normal clock
Derek .: since when?
Bryan: i was watching it count down so i didn't miss the time!
Bryan: well i am watching it right now and it is working
Bryan: it was changing once a minute earlier, but apparently the time was incorrect
Derek .: is weird becuase I have in here the clock of the site, and I NEVER had an issue like that
Bryan: well i don't know what to say to you, because that is what happened to me
Bryan: you have probably not had your cards deal face down either, or been dealt the big blind 2 hands in a row
Bryan: or the small blind 2 hands in a row either
Derek .: No one got this issue but you, so I dont think is a problem from the site, as I told you before Im really sorry but I cant give you the 1st place
Bryan: your site is a joke, i can't believe you guys try to license out this junk software
Derek .: Is there anything else I can assist you with at this time?
Bryan: did you know on your skin selling website they call it top of the line software?
Bryan: can i talk to someone with more authority than you?/
Derek .: im sorry sir for this issue not, they will say you the same thing, we wont give you the first place, I'm really sorry but there no issues
Bryan: how do you know they will say the same thing?
Derek .: actually did you see the site?
Derek .: did you take a look into the final list?
Bryan: yeah it says i got 2nd
Derek .: ok see the difference of comp points and tell me why you ask for the first place if the other player got more than you.
Derek .: It is not possible sir,
Bryan: lol you are funny
Derek .: im really sorry and good luck for the new list
Bryan: you are just making fun of me now
Bryan: nice
Derek .: im not sir, and I never said anything related about making fun of you sir. Never said anything
Bryan: you are either teasing me or don't speak english well enough to hold this conversation!
Bryan: to answer your question if it was a serious one...
Bryan: i am asking for the 1st pllace because i have like 300 points credited to today, that should be for yesterday, and i only lost by 90 points
Bryan: if your software clock had been working properly they would credited to yeserdays race
Bryan: furthermore, it doesn't even say anywhere on the site that you have to close the tables by the contest end time, i just assumed that was the case!
Bryan: technically the hands were played before the time so should count anyways, regardless of whether or not i closed the games
Derek .: you MUST close the tables to collect the comp points,
Derek .: if you played here time ago, is normally you know this process is not out fault
Derek .: you didnt close the tables on time
Bryan: it doesn't even say that, although i suspected it to be true, so that is why i was watching the lobby clock to close them
Derek .: im really sorry sir but please do not insist
Bryan: unfortunately for me the lobby gave me the incorrect time!
Derek .: no sir, the lobby DIDNT give you any incorrect time or minutes off.
Bryan: yes it did lol, i was watching it the whole time!
Derek .: if in the lobby says 11:59, the system will keep the time for the list 11:59
Derek .: is the same for the entire system,
Bryan: so you are calling me a liar then
Derek .: no is making clear how the clock works
Bryan: i know how the freakin clock works
Bryan: you look at it and it tells you what time it is
Derek .: look sir if I say anyhing and you just will play you as a victim dont try to waste your time,
Bryan: it told me the wrong time
Bryan: that is why i am complaining
Derek .: you got the second place because you got less comp points than 1st one thats all
Bryan: only because your software told me the wrong time!
Derek .: at 11:47am you got 4888.6 of the total comp points and at 12:04 you got 4930.6, the difference is of 42 comp points and the fist place won with 105.4 more comp points than you, now tell, me how you request the first place if you didn't get the enough comp points to beat him.
Derek .: im really sorry sir but as you can see the system is working fine and it always has been working good.
Derek .: Is there anything else I can assist you with at this time?
Bryan: right now i have 290 points for todays race and i didn't play anymore after i closed those games
Bryan: that was enough to win
Derek .: but you didnt close the tables by the moment the list ends
Bryan: because the system told me the wrong time! that is my complaint!
Bryan: are you saying it is my fault that the software told me the wrong time?
Derek .: no, I just said you didnt close the tables before the list was closed
Derek .: I never said anything about wrong time or related.
Bryan: and the reason is that the lobby told me the wrong time
Derek .: you said you didnt close the tables
Derek .: what you want me to do
Derek .: you didnt close them
Bryan: i want you to admit that the lobby told me the wrong time and accept that the site has some responsibility for an innacurate lobby time
Derek .: I cant admint anything if I have no evidence
Bryan: so you don't believe me basically
Derek .: and is not logic that the lobby has one time and the list closed in another time.
Derek .: is just not logic.
Bryan: well it isn't logic for a poker site to deal me my cards face down either, is it?
Bryan: it doesn't make sense for a poker site to not understand pot limit betting rules either
Bryan: no everything on pitbull makes sense my friend
Derek .: Is there anything else I can assist you with at this time?
Bryan: obviously not, have a nice day

Hi guys,

I was not planning on following up on this thread because I have given you the answers for your recurrent questions. However I wanted to touch base again and let you know that behind all these curtains of complaints, hunches, "chicken little" comments, and supposed suspicious play (if you should know, we give a $10 free every day... this brings a lot of fish and a lot of newbies that hardly play like others who have been pros for 7 years, so they are known to make calls, raises and even folds when you expect them the less), so you can provide me with the screen names, the table name, the date and time and the hand numbers and I will review them with our Fraud department and if we find cheaters (which we probably would have found by now) we will proceed accordingly and let you guys know.

As for the superusers subject... why would we? have you consider that? we are small site, not very big traffic... why would we even try to "profit" with superuser accounts when there is such little traffic? I mean, AP and UB would make sense because of the sum of money they were able to "drain" from the players (and not that we praise such practice, we actually felt pretty disgusted, but it makes sense that bigger companies have super user accounts rather than small ones), but in our case it would be counterproductive. Get your head out of the hole in the ground for a second and think about it.

I won't be chasing down your threads and posts about this subject anymore, you have your answers, I am terribly sorry they are not of your complete satisfaction but there is a point where we as a company have to draw the line and this is where we do it.

Thank you everyone.

Regards,

Dave Brenes
Network Manager
Pitbull Poker
Pitbull Partners

1000 hands is all we are asking for. Easy way to fix up your reputation!

Why would you cheat? You are more likely to cheat being a small company! A big company makes tons of money from the rake so cheating would be risking a lot to win a little. You guys are probably barely profitable and are probably barely solvent, considering that it takes you months to process cashouts. I'm assuming that means you are near broke in all your accounts and have to shuffle it around to process things. A little extra money here and there is probably necessary to keep the promotions going.

Seriously Dave, is it really too much for us to ask for the 1000 hands Rapala played where he claims to have never been called by a worse hand? I don't expect anyone to judge you guilty or innocent based on speculation, lets get the hard evidence out here and let it stand or fail on its own!

Here is what Rapala had to say in the "stay away from pitbull thread"

I've waited 6 months to give Dave a chance before making my suspicions public but he has done nothing so I feel I should now write this to warn people and also to ask if anyone has had a similar experience. I'm a LHE player with 4 years experience (check my previous posts for proof) and I've never experienced before the way a group of 4 players played. I played on 10/20 and there were a couple of regular players, some good, some bad, but 4 in particular never ever called me down with a worse hand. The first 500 odd hands I found very frustrating, but then I started getting suspicious and started actively looking for a single call down with a worse hand - it never happened over 500 hands which is totally bizarre in my mind esp in LHE.

So I then withdrew my remaining money which took 3 months and in November last year I requested my HH files from Dave so that I could analyse the hands and see any if there was some sort of proof of foul play. I'm sure a stat of 0% calldown with a worse hand over 1k hands is clear evidence of wrongdoing. Dave said no problem but the hands never arrived. I reminded him every 3 weeks or so but there was always an excuse, until 3 months ago when he stopped replying to my emails. ( I have requested over email 6 times in total)

I'm very hesitant about telling this story as I would hate to wrongfully accuse a site of cheating but I feel Dave has left me no choice. Dave if you are reading this and you no your site is clean, then you have the opportunity to make me look like a fool by sending me the hands and you also have my permission to upload them and link them here so that there is no chance of tampering from my side. Just so you know, I have saved a couple hands from the website so will be able to prove if there is any evidence of tampering on your side. (you can only get 1 hand at a time from the website and i dont have the time to get 1k hands at 30 seconds/hand)

If anyone has had similar experiences please post or pm me with suspected names. I dunno if its the done thing to post screen names here, if its ok then tell me and I will name the 4 players I suspect.

and

My mate was also playing there getting suspicious and toward the end of the last session tried to expose them. he had 93o and open raised. villain calls. board 55J. vilain cr mate, he call. turn is blank and my mate raise villain who 3 bets. river is 9 and villain now checks and mate checks too to see what he has. he has like 6 high.

This hand is possible from a good aggro opponent but this guy was insanely tight and never called down with worse.

Another time my friend raised suspect guy on every street with T high cos he was sick to death of the donking. somewhow suspect managed to donk every street despite the raises and flipped over A high on the river to win. I will get my mate to save this hand from the website later. Apart from these blatant ones it just felt like whenever u had a hand they check/fold and when u have A hi they often donk into u and when u call down it will very often be a hand they should be check calling like bottom pair. I honestly dont recall winning a sd against these 4 players and I wanted to see my HH files to check if my memory was correct but Dave is conveniently forgetting to do this... go figure. I will post these suspect hands later...

So there you go Dave, Rapala has given you permission to publicly upload these hands. If they are clean as judged by the educated audience of 2+2 I will drop these accusations. Man up and do it!

link to Rapala's post in the other thread:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/28...=#post11806924

Also I hate to say it my friend but the idea of having the security deparment review stuff is a joke. I doubt you even have a security department and considering that no one on your site seems to understand how pot limit betting works, I question the poker expertise of your team. Perhaps you could post the credentials of the staff on your security team?

Are you serious? This hand makes you think superuser? C'mon man.
Again, this hand indicates superuser?
imo, this is not even close to being a situation where any site needs to defend their integrity. All i see is bad play on your part.



So, your complaint is now about a possible bug in the software that may not be handling a dead blind correctly? How is this at all relevant to your claims of superusers?

Post the graphic or hand history. Make sure to include the hand before this one as well. But do you see what you are doing here? You are taking the word of a friend and presenting it as fact. If you have to use the word "reportedly", then this "evidence" is worthless.


5 months?? Is that right?

OK, as you wish I will stop posting in your thread. The reason is not because i don't feel qualified to. The reason is that you are an absolute fabricator of fact. I have heard of long cashouts, but i GUARANTEE that no cashout took 5 months. You even say cashoutS, as if this happened more than once. Your credibility is at absolute zero, and I won't waste any further time on you until you stop the BS, drama
exaggerations.

FWIW, I now do not believe it is possible that you are a long term winner. The plays above that you attribute to superusers are standard plays against fishies.

Hahahaha wowowow now that's some incredibly flawed logic! And a dismissive slam at the end to cap it off. Impressive.

from what i've read, im 100% convinced pitbull poker has super users and i would never ever play there

Hero has 2-5o -

Raises to $12. Gets 2 callers. Flop comes Jh-10s-10c
Hero bets $24. SB folds. Other player calls.
turn is Kc.

Hero checks. Other player checks.

If he had a super user account where he could see the hands, then, wouldnt it be best he made a bet here, and just take down the pot by himself instead of having to split the pot with u by calling your bluff on the river?

River is 8h.

Hero bets $75. Call.

Player 2 turns up 2-6.

There were three hands he could possibly beat.

Actually, there isnt one hand he can beat(he is playing the board) but there is many hands he can chop with.

Now, we can debate that I made a really poor play there, but you absolutely cannot call a $75 raise there without having something more than 6 high.

He didnt call a raise but only a bet.

I left the table and cashed out the $60 I had left in my account that night and never logged on again

If u started this hand with $160, u would have had $161.50 after the completion of this hand. Why was your cashout for only $60 then and not $161?

I would most likely not have played there anyway, but I will make sure not to ever play at Pitbull poker. There are too many weird stories coming out about them. Even if only the stories about withdrawal problems and poor CS is true, that would be reason enough not to play there.

Ok lets make a bet then. You pick the escrow. IRS documents will be the evidence. You are obviously just trolling here so get lost.

Dave said it would not make much sense for a small traffic site to have superusers, and it would make more sense for a larger site. Wouldn't that be the opposite of conventional thinking? I mean if you get caught and lose your small business I would imagine they would just go create another small business. And continue to cheat. While AP and UB were both so big that if they went completely under because of the incident it would be nearly impossible for them to rebuild.

Melina

As a comment thou on this thread, i am not ruling out the possiblities of a site having a super user account. Chester could be %100 correct on his accusations.

I just dont know what proof he can find on suspicous play by players when they're hands are not called and therefore not revealed in the hand historys.

Ie: Chester is betting with air and i know this because i got a super user account, so, i raise him to get him to fold and i take down the pot.

I then continue to do this all night long. Well, unless he calls my reraise, then my cards are never exposed. It doesnt matter if Chester loads all the hand historys on his computer, as my raises were not called and my whole cards will not be revealed to Chester. Only the site has access to what I had.

Now, lets assume i have a super user account and I raise with ace king and Chester calls with a small pocket pair of 3's. The flop comes ace ten 3 and i check and Chester bets half the pot and i fold.(because i have super user account and my odds of winning this hand are around %3) This would be proof i can see the cards. But, Even if Chester went to the hand history of this hand, again, my cards wont be known by him in the hand Historys.

Only Pitbull would know the hand that i pocessed.(or they should be able to know what i had, i hope lol)

Now, Chester and Rapala have deemed shady play at Pitbull and they have written to them on this regard. They have stated their case to them and have given them some user names of players who they feel are the cheaters.

Pitbull should have the ability to look into many hands that these players have played on their sites and should been able to determine this ( if their was cheating or not)on their own. They have access to what cards they are folding and doing reraises with. But i have not once heard Pitbull state that a followup was done on Chesters and Rapalas concerns.

If these players are folding top pair and top kickers (after preflop raising) to players who make a set on the flop, it is definetly an indication of some form of cheating going on.

All i am saying is that if i was the boss of Pitbull poker and i recieved an email from a customer who has suspicions of shady play on my site, and provides me with the players names, u can bet the farm i would investigate this further.

I'd by pulling up the hands of these players and examine their playing styles, to determine if what Chester is stating is true or fiction. If i found nothing alarming, id then email Chester and explain to him my findings. Of course i wouldnt reveal the hands but, id at least say the play of the players mentioned were reviewed and nothing out of the ordinary was found.

From what i been reading, Pitbull didnt do any of this and for that reason alone,shady play and cheating cannot be ruled out at Pitbull Poker.

I know in the past that i have expected collusion on some poker sites and i have emailed the sites to tell them and have included the users names of the suspected cheats to them.

At the reputable sites that i have played at, they always send me back and email stating that they take cheating very seriously and will get back to me in a few days after reviewing my accusations. On some occasions, they have revieded the hands in question and have sent me back emails stating that the play was suspicious and that they will keep an eye on these players in future hands. It at least made me feel that the site was watching my back and took my concerns seriously. I dont get that same impression from Pitbull Poker

Just my 2 cents.

You can guarantee they weren't 5 months? You must have some inside info then IE you are a pitbull employee or something trying to discredit me lol. Just for fun here are some quotes from the prop site.

"I received my cashout overnight DHL. I was very pleased until i went to my bank and was told i have to wait 6 to 8 weeks for them to send this check to collections, and THEN ill get my money. This is impossible, how can u expect people to wait this long to get paid? Any other americans having this problem?"

the following was posted on 5/15:

"...This is getting pretty rediculous...I have contacted their live support 5-6 times and they still give me the same story..."it should be there this week"...can u contact them ...i made the 3k withdrawal march 11th...thanks"

Rapala posted the following:

"I wouldn't hold your breath for your cashout, mine took 3 month and my friends nearly 5 months for a $4k cashout. When asked why it's taking so long the answer is always 'I'll make it my priority to get this sorted out for you as quickly as possible'. lol"

What Cainer says is true. The nature of the cheating makes it hard to demonstrate by hand history. Most of the hands don't go to showdown. All I can say is that I was owned with perfect accuracy by these guys playing me out of position. They donk bet when I had air or had me beat, and check/folded when I had them beat. I believe if we can get these hands in a database it will show a ridiculously high donk bet %, and remarkable accuracy on the few hands that went to showdown. It will show that almost always when they donk bet me, I had nothing. And almost always when I had something, they didn't donk bet.

And once again I repeat that all we are asking for are the 1000 hands of lhe rapala played. Thats not such a huge demand I don't think.

I can vouch for the unreliable customer service. They offered a free $10, no deposit bonus and I felt like taking them up on it. After I sign up, I find out that I have to contact support to claim it.

No problem. I contact support, confirm my phone number and am told I'll receive a call within twenty minutes to verify my information and then the bonus will be released. The call doesn't come.

A few weeks later, I try again, get told the same thing, and the call still doesn't come.

I don't know about any of this cheating stuff, but I can't really recommend them. It seems like if you ever had any problem it would be a really big hassle to get things worked out.

I was pretty convinced by chester throughout the whole post until the hand posted by Charlotte Fatman and the leaving with 60$.

+1 to both posts by cainer. Spoke my mind.

Sorry suzzer I missed this post earlier.

Pigbot is definitely a different person. I can prove my identity. I am well known on the onlinepropping.com forum and have been one of the most active props there for the last 5 years or so. Rob the manager of rakebacknation can vouch for both myself and pigbot as being seperate, legitimate and very active players over a long period of time.

I believe the 1000 hands will clearly show that there is cheating. Ask any lhe expert and they will tell you that never calling with a worse hand over 1000 hands of 4 handed play is 100% proof of cheating.

As far as the other hands i am interested in (the 2/5 nl) I think they will show a pretty clear pattern of donk betting when i am losing, and only when I am losing.

I would certainly appreciate any help on this. Rob is also looking into hiring a programmer so that we can settle this one way or the other.

As a prop this isn't something I enjoy doing because our job is to support small sites and help them grow. We are supposed to be quiet about prop programs. Bashing a site like this is something I hate to do and I know it puts Rob in a tough spot but I feel it is necessary in order to help keep the small sites honest for everyone.

Hi guys,

I want to quote Cainer who has been the ONLY one who understand how the process works:

"All i am saying is that if i was the boss of Pitbull poker and I received an email from a customer who has suspicions of shady play on my site, and provides me with the players names, u can bet the farm i would investigate this further.

I'd by pulling up the hands of these players and examine their playing styles, to determine if what Chester is stating is true or fiction. If i found nothing alarming, id then email Chester and explain to him my findings. Of course I wouldn't reveal the hands but, id at least say the play of the players mentioned were reviewed and nothing out of the ordinary was found."

Not once Chesterboy has sent me such details, he describes the hands a "hero bets", "villain raises", "mate calls"... how am I supposed to give credibility to such complaints when I am not given the adequate information. I don't need to know you have cashed 7 figure numbers, or how many years you have played this game online, or how many sites. I mean let's get real, that's peanuts when it comes to making an accusation. I can only work with data that actually exists on the system, otherwise is like shouting to an empty room.

Send me screen names, dates, times, table names, hand numbers, etc. I will be more than glad to investigate, it is in our higher concern to identify and eliminate possible collusion at our tables.

And as to why my reasoning of our small site not using super user accounts is because, is not now, but long ago such accounts would have been spotted. A larger site such as AP or UB would have never been noticed because a handful of accounts would be lost and missed among the thousands of players who connect there daily, like was mentioned before, they were spotted because of a HH that was sent showing ALL information, otherwise they would still be there taking money away and no one would know. You see my point? Larger places have more potential of winning more without getting so much heat. You think otherwise? Tell that to the $7 MILLION dollars estimated that potripper took from the players. Hardly a small site like ours would be able to think of 1% of that money using something as dumb as a superuser account.

Thanks again to everyone.

Dave Brenes
Network Manager
Pitbull Poker
Pitbull Partners

Please consider that IF there is cheating it wouldn't be too unrealistic for pitbull to get in here and post stuff to try and discredit me. I don't know Charlotte Fatman. But if that hand really happened a hand history would be pretty cool. If it was the last hand they played on the site it would be easy to find. Honestly it doesn't really fit with the pattern of cheating I suspect though. But I would love to see the history if it is real. That would be a fun one to add to the thread.

uhm if u get the 1k HHs or how many there are, it'll be blatently obvious that those guys arer superusers, because the river AF will be .

thats exactly the reason youre not getting your HH's either, because ******ed people had those accounts once again and were too dumb to cheat "smart"

Dave you are not qualified to judge if there is cheating or not for 2 reasons:

1. If there is cheating it is most likely an inside job and you will do your best to hide it.

2. You made it clear in another thread you are not a poker player. I was asking you to fix the pot limit calculator and you clearly didn't understand what I was talking about.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/28...t#post11321982

You are obviously not qualified to review things for us.

In this case the cheating we suspect does not lead to showdown very often. To prove or disprove such cheating we need to see a decent sample, not any one hand. 1 hand is meaningless. That is why we are asking for the 1000 hands of lhe rapala played. It will give us the most information in the least number of hands, making it easy on everyone.

Reading the thread I thought it sounded like a bit of a beat up, the description of the suspected superuser's play just sounds like typical fish randomness that you find on some of the smaller sites.

This though is just some WTF backwards logic. The small sites that make less money and may actually be struggling to profit have less incentive to steal than the big sites with high traffic and profits?

I am trying right now to find more fishy hands and can't even get the page to load. This is why I haven't put together more evidence!

lol this is gem. pbdave makes clear that it's possible for them to create superuser accounts, but they're so honest that they wouldn't do that.

[ ] You understand hypotheticals.