You are correct. Ignition and Bovada on the Pai Wang Luo Poker Network are the site with the next most MTTs. After that is Chico Network and beyond that, pickings are slim on Horizon, Grand, SWC, Nitrogen, and a few other small places.

--
Kahn

Other than no HUD, what about Global Poker would be related to the "recreational player model?" I could point out several aspects of Ignition/Bovada that are clearly related to it.

No HUD stems from lack of hand histories. And even though it is technically possible to get said histories, the Global Poker reps have threatened to ban anyone downloading their hands.

I would say that is a very anti-pro attitude right there!

Now Global isn't anon like Ignition, and that is a huge part of the rec model. But I don't know how long that difference will last. My research into Jonas's past musings on the rec model suggest that he has more tricks up his sleeve for Global and that perhaps they are simply limited by their choice of software provider at the moment.

You must also take into consideration that Global is doing what Ignition (and every other site with a brain) would do if they could... advertising on FaceBook. Part of the recreational model indeed is not just software fixes, but marketing strategy. Thus I contend that part of the "recreational player model"is finding a way to market to untapped audiences of recreational players

--
Kahn

Thanks for the reply!

I'm kind of surprised you didn't mention no rakeback. I assume that was one of Jonas's ideas beginning with Bodog/Bovada/Ignition?

I don't use FaceBook and I'm probably blanking on some legal reason, but what prevents sites like ACR, BOL or Ignition from advertising on FaceBook while Global Poker can?

RE: Rakeback

Yes, it may further surprise you that I wish the word weren't contained in our domain name. Hindsight is 20/20 though.

Your point however is very valid. No rakeback at either site. That is definitely part of the recreational player model.


RE: Facebook

I think Facebook and Paypal were fooled and don't know what they are dealing with.


--
Kahn

Actually, Carbon Poker has two FaceBook pages, though they haven't been used in more than two years.

Having a page and doing advertisement. (Which is most likely targeted based on location,gender, age,etc...) fwiw..

Why didn't I finish the sentence I never know

Having a page and advertising are 2 different things.

There are a lot of pages in Facebook, but it's not certain that the page also can Advertise there...

I think there is a correlation in the absence of Party Poker commercials and the decline of poker in America.

Lmao I still have that stupid jingle in my head all these years later. Ewwwwwwwwwww Party Poka, Party Poka.

Good points about the Facebook marketing strategy.

Marketing to all those recs thru Facebook ads is prob the main reason the site has by far the softest games of any US facing site.

A lot of pros can't believe they are playing poker on Global at decent stakes against players who have seemingly never played a hand of real money poker before lol

Global is advertising as a sweepstakes or something like that since you use their currency and not USD to play poker so it's a legal loophole from what I understand.

Yeah, I'm aware of the sweepstakes model loophole they use. My question was mainly why FaceBook wouldn't accept advertising dollars from the other sites? Would it be illegal for FaceBook to do so or do they just not do business with companies like them?

I thought I heard that ACR did some some TV ads in a few small markets, maybe in Florida? Maybe I'm remembering what I heard incorrectly.

I've seen tv ads for ACR in MA (something about SNG 2.0 iirc), but I think they are technically advertising their free money games. Obv people that they convert from the tv ads are prob hoping to play for real money and will figure it out

I'm not sure if Horizon (Intertops/Juicy) really is off limits to NY players. I'm from NY and I've had an account with them for years and maintain a balance on Tops. For US players, this is one of the biggest oversights of the post BF era. The rake structure, rake back (36% guys), softness of games, and variety of games offered, is all arguably the best of any US facing network and I use the word arguably quite loosely. More people should play and direct traffic here. It would be profitable for all of us in the States who take the online game seriously today.

With regard to your NY comments. Your account was almost certainly created before they disallowed NY players. As such, you are grandfathered in. i.e. you can continue to play. New players from New York however, are not allowed.

I also agree with you that Intertops has potential. Unfortunately, ever since Lock screwed up the network, Intertops has not been willing or able to revive it to its former glory.

Speaking from the perspective of someone who sends players to Intertops, they have many other issues that keep them from gaining more traction. For example the poker manager is uncooperative and unwilling to engage in meaningful discussions.

The affiliate program pays poorly relative to other major market competitors. Finally, even when one does send a larger amount of players to Intertops, they do not convert well... in other words, someone might send 100 potential clients that would normally yield 30-50 new and active players. On Intertops the result would be more like 15 or 20 new players. This low conversion rate further dissuades affiliates from sending poker traffic.

--
Kahn

Ya I'm in the grandfathered in situation as well on another site. You just got lucky you had an account before the rules changed.

When I started out that was going to be my site. I was playing on there (play money) to learn the mechanics of the game and I decided I was ready for real money. Less than a week later Party Poker was gone and I deposited $50 on PokerStars.

What you begin expanding on here is precisely what happens. Even when you guys start to funnel some new players onto the site, it becomes a catch 22 in that they join, see less traffic than other sites, and then don't stick. If they all just stayed at the same time, the site would begin building some traction. Like you said, however: Even in that event Intertops/Horizon just doesn't do enough to promote their site or make it competitive for affiliates. It definitely is sad. The rake structure and 36% rb alone would make this place extremely profitable.

I'm a poker geek as far as playing and sometimes watching the tv poker these days and barely hear about that site. Just here and there.

What is the most popular site to play on?

Bovada/Ignition has the most traffic for US players.

Moved the Intertops-specific discussion over to the appropriate thread.

Fair enough but I thought it was appropriate here in the first place as anyone contemplating deposing there based on my previous words should know that the site is making it impossible for me to withdraw my winnings. I'm sure if someone's interested enough, they'll check out the Intertops thread and catch up on it.

It was 100% relevant to this thread, but it's become something of a derail now. I'd suggest posting back in here once it's all over; that would probably be more helpful for others. We certainly want people to know about issues on any US-facing site.

Again: Fair enough. As is typical with you, I can't say you're anything other than fair and reasonable. Thanks.