Here is some of that public opinion you were talking about.
http://www.pokerlistings.com/new-pol...-gambling-6330

here is a link to the thread discussing it
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/28...tment-1028133/
here is a link to the article
http://money.cnn.com/2011/04/26/news...tune/index.htm

+1
Prohibition of an activity done by millions, and which the majority of citizens believe should be allowed anyway, will never work. We tried that in the 20s with alcohol. People are going to play online poker. I found a new site and got money on it in one day. There will always be another one eager to meet the demand.

In my state I am not breaking any law whatsoever playing online poker. Even the DOJ has never said players were breaking any laws, except when their state prohibits it.

I am able to "exploit" other players because I do my homework, and they don't.

When I started playing poker, I knew nothing. I had never played poker, and I didn't know anyone who did. I didn't know that there was live poker (charity rooms) in my city, the nearest casino was more than 100 miles aways, and I had no idea that there was such a thing as a poker forum.

All I knew, from watching the WSOP and WPT on TV, was that a lot of smart people who could obviously be doing something else, such as a Ph.D. computer scientistist and a Ph.D. physicist, were successfullly pursuing it as a career.

I'm a nerd, and I like playing games, so I thought I might be good at it. I didn't know where to turn, so I started taking poker books out at my library. I quickly figured out that most of the books were out of date, so I started getting newer ones through interlibrary loans.

Eventually I read Theory of Poker by David Sklansky, which is a 2+2 book, and I found out about these forums. In the forums, I found out about tracking software.

I did all of this starting from nothing. I found it all out on my own, and I spent no money doing it. Anyone with access to a library could have done the same thing.

So, the people that I play against are at a disadvantage? Boo hoo! They could have done what I did, but they didn't. And I'm supposed to feel bad?

Enough with this post, I need to study chapter 6 of the Full Tilt tournament book, so I can exploit players that haven't read it.

What? A 5 year old poll that pre-dates the UB/AP scandal?

How about every independent poll ever taken?

Just curious where is your evidence to support your notion that Americans are against the right to play online poker?

You brought this up, wheres your evidence?

Or are you lying?

Actually, put ANY OTHER business scenario in that context and ask the US pubic. If some say they are Professional Players, and this is a business, it's a fair analogy. It's not just a game. People are making income and considering these activities there "job". So, no, you don't have to feel bad, but once again, my ONLY POINT - don't expect the broad support you need from public opinion to get the legislation for legalized online gambling/poker.

Sure, I'd take a look. But just because someone puts a sign on a two room office and calls themself a marketing research firm, doesn't mean they have scientifically reliable data. Give me a Gallup, USA Today, NYT, Rueters or any established outlet that tracks public opinion and we can talk.

Rolled eyes? Really? you don't think the fact that a poll stating positive support for online poker is less relevant if taken before the largest scandal and cheating saga in online poker? Really?

I understand polls are not always reliable. The point is, please quit saying Americans are against having the freedom of playing online poker in the privacy of their own homes. You dont know that to be a fact so dont come here and make that implication. Thats all Im saying.

Most non-players have no idea that there was a scandal or they forgot it the next week, it was niche news that the general public had no interest in. The polls show that the public is in strong support of the principle of adult individuals being able to gamble online, not necessarily support of poker sites or any particular site.

Actually, my statements address the fact that public opinion will never rise to the level needed as long as people 1) use tracking / mining software and 2) are arrogant and disingenuous about it.

It's illegal. All gambling laws include language that FORBID the use of electronic calculating devices for gambling. Why is this so hard to grasp? Where is the gray area? It doesn't matter if a site let's you have access to that data and the back end support needed. It's illegal.

So, once again, my point is, public opinion WILL NEVER rise to the level needed to change anything. Wars, economy, energy crisis. This WILL NEVER rise to the level of legislation anytime soon.

Even a CNN poll finding 80% support only matters if it makes in a heavy news cycle and its picked up and championed by a few legislators and then they are able to convince the rest of the elected shmucks that this is a priority in a time of war, recession and energy crisis.

Adding to my point, has been those involved in online poker who take a very aggressive, non professional approach in how the interact with people and address the very LEGITIMATE concerns and illegalities about what is going on.

Tha'ts what I've stated.

What the hell are you talking about?

There were several prime time network specials addressing the scandal on MSNBC and 60 Minutes.

I am willing to look at any poll after the MSNBC and 60 minutes reports on AP/UB. Even if they aren't from widely accepted outlets, I'd take a look at them.

I've never said they didn't. I've simply stated that this WILL NOT rise to the level needed in public opinion to get something done.

Just because people have an opinion doesn't mean they do anything about it. People may agree, but they really don't care either way. They aren't gonna be writing their congressman over this one. And even if EVERY online pro in the US decided to write and call, that wouldn't be close to enough for any type of difference.

Things only make it to the legislative table when public outcry makes the pages of USA Today, NYT, etc and hits the cable news circuit.

My only point is, this won't make it there.

Ok, you are right. Your work is done here. Bye.

Sorry, but this is just flat out, hilariously wrong.

Really? You're shocked and confused by the concept that it is illegal to take an electronic counting or odds device into the casino or gambling establishment and affect your decisions accordingly by giving it data and using its response?

Come on, that's hard to take seriously.

Here's a start, and do a search on every states gambling statutes if you are actually confused by this.

http://www.gcb.state.mn.us/

Take a look in that online documentation to find this:

Subd. 4.Certain devices prohibited

(a) Whoever uses or possesses a probability-calculating or outcome-affecting device at an authorized gambling establishment is guilty of a felony. For purposes of this subdivision, a "probability-calculating" or "outcome-affecting" device is any device to assist in:

(1) projecting the outcome of a game other than pari-mutuel betting authorized by chapter 240;

(2) keeping track of or counting cards used in a game;

(3) analyzing the probability of the occurrence of an event relating to a game other than pari-mutuel betting authorized by chapter 240; or

(4) analyzing the strategy for playing or betting in a game other than pari-mutuel betting authorized by chapter 240.

For purposes of this section, a book, graph, periodical, chart, or pamphlet is not a "probability-calculating" or "outcome-affecting" device.

(b) Whoever uses, or possesses with intent to use, a key or other instrument for the purpose of opening, entering, and affecting the operation of any game or gambling device or for removing money, chips, tokens, or other contents from therein, is guilty of a felony. This paragraph does not apply to an agent or employee of an authorized gambling establishment acting within the scope of employment.

What's so confusing?

Really? Can you name for me the last form of major legislation, and this would be major legislation, that didn't get covered regularly by those news outlets before being put up for legislation?

UIGEA?

The only reason their is a general public interst in gambling is because of the revenue it would produce...

In general, the public really doesnt care about this.

Ironically, I think you are right. That was snuck through pretty bad.

However, I think it kinda still proves my point. As shoddy as it was for them to do that, PEOPLE DIDN"T CARE.

That's my only point, people don't care, even if they agree, enough to make any changes.

AND, once again, let remind everyone the UIGEA was a pre UB/AP scandal legislation and I guarantee that will play a major part in the UIGEA staying in place. Another irony.

What is so confusing is your total ignorance in almost every post you make. HEM does not in any way fall into the category you keep falsely implying it does. And what does the rules of a totally diffeent game have to do with the rules of another game in the first place? You keep posting this absurd Casino language as if if it somehow in any way germane to the conversation.

HEM doesn't do the things described in that law. If you want to sit in a casino and write down the plays other players make, and then study that information to better compete against them, it's perfectly legal. It isn't even objectionable. In fact, some live pros do that already.

I don't know if anyone remembers an EPT tv table a few years back where Vicki Coren made what was considered a poor play. Her opponent then takes notes in front of the tv cameras. She says in a rather surprised tone of voice "oh he's writing it down." It was quite amusing. Some do take notes. Some make it more obvious than others.

Its already been linked to in other threads.

In other news....