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Old 10-02-2008, 02:58 PM   #1
Akimka
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T6Poker major fraud

Dear players! I believe that lot of you will ignore this story and I anticipate a lot of “lol, you are donks” comments to this story, but I believe in players unity and I believe in players support when we are talking about pokerroom <-> players relations.

Here is a story that I telling you on behalf of Russian poker player community who fallen to power of authority and believed to people who should be trustworthy, but in reality am not.

This story began at winter of 2008 (Feb) when one of pokernews company associates posted advertises on cgm.ru (biggest Russian poker forum, property of pokernews). Simultaneously similar advertise was posted on pokernews.com site. Advertise campaign was very aggressive. Pokernews offered a lot of bonuses, rakeraces for EPT buyins on T6 poker and so, but some people was not so sure about this pokerroom because of shady reputation of his founders (I will not go further on this topic, I believe that people whom I addressing here know better). This topic (room security/honesty of owners) has been discussed at cgm.ru and in Tony G. blog and questions have been addressed to pokernews associates. This reply was posted on cgm.ru (direct quote) (Indenok is pokernews associate/employee).

http://forum.cgm.ru/showpost?goto=310961
Translation from Russian. In [] my remarks:


Indenok, 18 Feb 2008 13:44
Speaking of honesty of the pokerroom [Means:T6poker]. As many of you know, I am PokerNews employee and a business partner of Tony G. in Russian ventures. Tony G. personally asked me to promote and advertise T6. When I’ve read topics on 2+2, comments in Tony blog [links (Akimka): http://tonyg.pokerworks.com/2008/01/...home-game.html, http://tonyg.pokerworks.com/2008/01/...-t6-poker.html] etc, I, naturally, asked him corresponding questions. Tony answered me that this is not related to reality and he is PERSONALLY [capitalization in original post] gives guarantees to withdrawals from pokerroom. I think, that is possible to trust this person business reputation. I trust completely. Assumptions of TTR [one of cgm.ru poster] that T6poker is a property of Tony G. and not a fact that T6 is not financial pyramid, from my point of view, is absurd.


After this solid guarantees lot of high rollers and grinders began to signup on T6poker, who otherwise never would. Rakeback, rake ladder and WSOP/EPT invitation also was lucrative but this PokerNews guarantee was a crucial factor.

One of the victims is a well known Russian player Alexey “Gump” Makarov (nick NiceHandLOL on T6) who had over than 240k euro in his account (I write this post on his behalf and other players behalf and if needed all proofs will be posted). Beside this player, there is many other players who have a lot less money on their accounts (one player with euro 10k on account, and many with 500-5000 euro on accounts).

Also two players didn’t received 42k euro as tournaments buyins (T6poker advertised EPT promotion, those players won it).

Here is a list of players those we aware of:

1. Ostryak 4082 Euro
2. WaterGhost 2281 Euro + 28K dollars Promo
3. hAAppyMonkey 9679 Euro
4. HoldemKhan 14K dollars Promo
5. dimapow3r 874 Euro
6. ekikmk 847 Euro
7. x25rus 601 Euro +10K dollars Promo
8. JennaJameson 3329 Euro
9. NiceHandLOL 238689 Euro (120k euro has been refunded by Tony G., therefore only 118k euro left)


Troubles with withdrawals began an June. Alexey provided to t6poker support all needed documents and withdrawn about 80k euro before of June via Wire transfers and Moneybookers transfers but after that his withdrawal requests cancelled without explanation and support has not answered to his requests.

Since June Alexey was in constant contact with Indenok (that associate who post TonyG guarantees on forum), Tony G. and Torben (owner of T6poker). Nothing happens since than. Alexey created topic on cgm.ru at 9 Sep about this situation and said that he will try to do all legal ways to make Tony G. responsible for his guarantees.
http://forum.cgm.ru/msg?th=37242&prevloaded=1&&start=40
You can try to read it with online translator.

This topic had HUGE player’s response and soon after that post of Alexey (9 Sep) Tony G. conctacted him and after long and uneasy discussions refunded half of T6debt (120k euro) with condition that Tony G. no longer responsible for his guarantees about T6 to Alexey. At the same time advertising has been removed from pokernews sites and Tony G. Posted this to his blog:
http://tonyg.pokerworks.com/2008/09/...portunity.html

Today t6poker owns 120k euro to Alexey and I believe about 30k cash + 40k promotion money (that I am aware of) euro to other players, who trusted Pokernews guarantees and no withdrawals are processing.

Why I am posting this here:

1. To warn players who may decide to play on T6Poker, not to do it on ANY conditions.
2. To try to find others who are victims of T6poker fraud
3. To seek legal help for Russian players. If anyone can help for fee or for free PM me please.
4. To see input from players – are we right to count pokernews responsible for all this fraud?
5. To hear advises – what we should do next?

If you need further information it will be provided.
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Old 10-02-2008, 04:02 PM   #2
Scott Diamond
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Re: T6Poker major fraud

Just what ON-Line Poker Needs...Another scandle....geeezzzz...
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Old 10-02-2008, 04:06 PM   #3
bananafromtheblock
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Re: T6Poker major fraud

I hate to be a dick and espcially since Tony G vouched for the site - but everyone should have known from the start the site was a scam. I think what they have done from the start(pure speculationg - prove me wrong and ill delete this part) is that they have used players money for promotions such as rake races and now that the players want to withdraw there is no money left. The fact that Tony G left the room should speak volumes. I hope you Russians get the money back, id assume hiring some torpedos wouldnt hurt.

No real advice here other then EVERYONE STAY THE **** AWAY FROM THIS ROOM IN FUTURE.
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Old 10-02-2008, 04:16 PM   #4
iLoViK
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Re: T6Poker major fraud

Quote:
Originally Posted by bananafromtheblock View Post
I hate to be a dick and espcially since Tony G vouched for the site - but everyone should have known from the start the site was a scam. I think what they have done from the start(pure speculationg - prove me wrong and ill delete this part) is that they have used players money for promotions such as rake races and now that the players want to withdraw there is no money left. The fact that Tony G left the room should speak volumes. I hope you Russians get the money back, id assume hiring some torpedos wouldnt hurt.

No real advice here other then EVERYONE STAY THE **** AWAY FROM THIS ROOM IN FUTURE.
It was too good to be true, i agree, but when a pro and such a known player around the world, as Tony G, vouches for the site, changes the perspective.
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Old 10-02-2008, 04:21 PM   #5
mako17pa
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Re: T6Poker major fraud

E-merg-encee. E-merg-encee. Everybody to get from street!

(1966, Alan Arkin, Carl Reiner, Eva Marie Saint. Anybody see it? No?. Ok. Sorry. Nevermind. As you were.)
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Old 10-02-2008, 04:22 PM   #6
PhatPots
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Re: T6Poker major fraud

I remember they had a whole bunch of sponsored pros at the EPT Monte Carlo last year. The site seemed legit at the time.

Moral of the story, stick to Pokerstars and Full Tilt
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Old 10-02-2008, 04:26 PM   #7
Tony Lepatata
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Re: T6Poker major fraud

this just in: ice man is opening up a new poker room...with coin flipping w/ odds feature!
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Old 10-02-2008, 04:27 PM   #8
React1oN
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Re: T6Poker major fraud

cliffnotes?
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Old 10-02-2008, 04:31 PM   #9
JP OSU
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Re: T6Poker major fraud

I remember when this site first launched there were a ton of warnings from people about the shady folks involved in this site... I'm not suprised
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Old 10-02-2008, 04:56 PM   #10
GiantWalleye
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Re: T6Poker major fraud

tl;dr. I'm just glad I never looked at that site. I just built up enough trust to put money on cake.
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Old 10-02-2008, 05:09 PM   #11
Akimka
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Re: T6Poker major fraud

Quote:
Originally Posted by bananafromtheblock View Post
I hate to be a dick and espcially since Tony G vouched for the site - but everyone should have known from the start the site was a scam. I think what they have done from the start(pure speculationg - prove me wrong and ill delete this part) is that they have used players money for promotions such as rake races and now that the players want to withdraw there is no money left.
I totally agree with your line of thinking, but this is a clearly anticipated "lol, donks" post (no offence)

I personally thought same way about where is money to freerolls are getting from (players deposits) but one of our goals is at least to shutdown t6poker operations and cease of this fraud to new player who may fall under advertising. Before this situation everybody thought "They MAY BE fraudsters" now I hope everybody will think "They SHOULD BE fraudsters" and this alone is a big deal.

We really do not think that they easily give up our money but who knows. May be they value their business...

Anyway this post is not about "Gee. Look at us, we are donks" ))
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Old 10-02-2008, 06:37 PM   #12
apefish
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Re: T6Poker major fraud

is this thread the first we've heard about T6 not paying players?
by we I mean the zoo.
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Old 10-02-2008, 06:47 PM   #13
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Re: T6Poker major fraud

There have been warnings before:

T6 Poker
T6
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Old 10-02-2008, 06:57 PM   #14
Mike Haven
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Re: T6Poker major fraud

Akimka

Please change your settings so you can receive PMs, (at least temporarily).

MH
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Old 10-02-2008, 07:37 PM   #15
Akimka
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Re: T6Poker major fraud

I checked my PM system status and it's enabled. Don't know what seems to be a problem.

Here is my email zedmor (at) gmail

I checking this email box on regular basis and if anyone want to drop me a line about all this - you are welcome.
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Old 10-02-2008, 07:41 PM   #16
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Re: T6Poker major fraud

T6 have had a decent presence at Crown Casino lately due to a few high profile players being sponsored by them locally, including Billy the croc and a few others including Tony G.
This sort of story is really bad for the online poker business
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Old 10-02-2008, 07:43 PM   #17
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Re: T6Poker major fraud

I've let an English-speaking buddy proofread the post. So here is the cleaned-up version, as the time frame for editing the original post has passed.

==========

Dear players! I believe that a lot of you will ignore this thread and I anticipate a lot of “lol, you are donks” comments to this, but I believe in players’ unity and mutual support in questions regarding relations between players and pokerrooms.

I’m telling you this story on behalf of Russian poker players community, which succumbed to the power of authority and believed those who were supposed to be trustworthy, but in fact were not.

This story began in February 2008, when a PokerNews associate started advertising T6poker on cgm.ru (largest Russian poker forum, property of PokerNews). An ad also appeared on pokernews.com. The advertising campaign has been very aggressive. PokerNews offered a lot of bonuses on T6 poker, rake races to EPT buyins and such, but some people expressed doubts in this pokerroom because of the shady reputation of some of its founders (I will not go further on this topic, as I believe people whom I speak of here know better). There was a discussion on cgm.ru and in Tony G.’s blog about the security of the room and the integrity of its owners and PokerNews associates were asked to comment on that. The following reply appeared on cgm.ru (directly quoting Indenok, who is a PokerNews associate/employee).

http://forum.cgm.ru/showpost?goto=310961
Translation from Russian. My comments in []:


Indenok, 18 Feb 2008 13:44
Regarding the integrity of the pokerroom [T6poker]. As many of you know, I am a PokerNews employee and Tony G.’s business partner in his Russian ventures. Tony G. personally asked me to promote and advertise T6. After reading topics on 2+2 and comments in Tony’s blog [links: http://tonyg.pokerworks.com/2008/01/...home-game.html, http://tonyg.pokerworks.com/2008/01/...t6-poker.html] etc., I, naturally, asked him corresponding questions. Tony answered that this does not represent the facts and that he PERSONALLY [capitalization in original post] guarantees withdrawals from the pokerroom. I believe it is reasonable to trust his business reputation. I completely trust it. TTR’s [one of cgm.ru poster] assumptions that T6poker belongs to Tony G. and could be a financial pyramid are absurd in my opinion.


After these guarantees were stated, a lot of high rollers and grinders, who otherwise would not play on T6poker, signed up to play there. Rakeback, rake ladder and WSOP/EPT invitations were lucrative but the PokerNews’s guarantee was what made the real difference.

One of the victims of the fraud is a well known Russian player Alexey “Gump” Makarov (screen name NiceHandLOL on T6poker) who had more than 240k euros in his account. I write this post on his and other players’ behalf, so all proofs will be presented if needed. Besides him, there are many more players who have significantly less money on their accounts (one player with 10k euros, others with 500-5000 euros).

Also, two players didn’t get their tournament buy-ins which amount to 42k euros total (they were the winners of T6poker’s advertised EPT promotion).

Here is a list of players we are aware of who still have funds in their T6poker accounts they are unable to withdraw:

1. Ostryak 4082 euros
2. WaterGhost 2281 euros + 28K dollars Promo
3. hAAppyMonkey 9679 euros
4. HoldemKhan 14K dollars Promo
5. dimapow3r 874 euros
6. ekikmk 847 euros
7. x25rus 601 euros +10K dollars Promo
8. JennaJameson 3329 euros
9. NiceHandLOL 238689 euros (120k euros were paid by Tony G., so only 118k euros remain)

Withdrawal problems began in June. T6poker support requested additional documents from Alexey, and after they have been provided, he was able to withdraw about 80k euro to Moneybookers and wire transfers. But his further withdrawal requests all got cancelled and support provided no explanation to this.

Since June Alexey maintained close contact with Indenok (PokerNews associate who posted Tony G.’s guarantees), Tony G. and Torben (T6poker’s owner). For a long time nothing happened. On September 9 Alexey made a post to a T6poker related thread on cgm.ru where he described his current situation and stated that he will try all legal ways to make Tony G. responsible for the guarantees he made.
http://forum.cgm.ru/msg?th=37242&prevloaded=1&&start=40
You can try to read it using online translator.

This thread had a HUGE players response and soon after that Tony G. contacted Alexey and they went into long and uneasy negotiations which resulted in Tony G. paying Alexey half of T6poker’s debt (120k euro) on condition that Tony G. will be no longer held responsible to Alexey for his guarantees regarding T6poker. At the same time T6poker ads were removed from PokerNews and Tony G.’s sites. The following post appeared in Tony G.’s blog:
http://tonyg.pokerworks.com/2008/09/...portunity.html

As of now T6poker still owes 120k euros to Alexey and roughly 30k euros in cash plus 40k euros in promotion money (at least that’s the sum I am aware of) to other players, who trusted PokerNews's guarantees. No withdrawals are currently being processed.

Why I started this thread:

1. To warn players who may decide to start playing on T6Poker: don’t do it under ANY conditions.
2. To try to find other players who became victims of T6poker fraud.
3. To seek legal help for Russian players. If anyone can help for fee or for free PM me please.
4. To see input from players – whether we were right or not to hold PokerNews responsible for this fraud?
5. To hear advices – what should we do next?

If you need further information I am willing to provide it.
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Old 10-03-2008, 03:26 AM   #18
A.Nironen
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Re: T6Poker major fraud

T6 owners simply used "effective methods". "One may not approve such methods, but it's not wise to doubt their effectiveness." In other words, money has no smell.

Guess how many cgm.ru'ers emailed me when I asked them to help me to punish a software pirate who distributed my program illegally. Hint: the number is very similar to the fifth letter of your nickname at cgm.ru.

The pirate is still near the top of cgm.ru rating list. He ignores my emails and most likely feels very well running his affiliate business.

However, good luck to all Russian players in getting their money back from T6.

-Andrzej
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Old 10-03-2008, 08:30 AM   #19
Valterego
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Re: T6Poker major fraud

The story about T6 has been widely debated in the swedish forums since december last year.

One of swedens largest newspapers, Expressen, published an article that warned about T6 poker at the same time.

http://www.expressen.se/poker/1.958989/varning-for-t6poker"
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Old 10-03-2008, 08:46 AM   #20
Rolf Stigbygel
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Re: T6Poker major fraud

Quote:
Originally Posted by PhatPots View Post
I remember they had a whole bunch of sponsored pros at the EPT Monte Carlo last year. The site seemed legit at the time.
Not if you did ANY kind of research. It was clear from day one.

Tony G. has known it was a scam all along. Either he was in on it, or he just didn't care. He was certainly given all the facts necessary to understand it was a scam, so he is definitely no victim. He's one of the purps.
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Old 10-03-2008, 08:48 AM   #21
notfoold
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Re: T6Poker major fraud

Quote:
Originally Posted by mako17pa View Post
E-merg-encee. E-merg-encee. Everybody to get from street!

(1966, Alan Arkin, Carl Reiner, Eva Marie Saint. Anybody see it? No?. Ok. Sorry. Nevermind. As you were.)
The Russians are coming! The Russians are coming!
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Old 10-03-2008, 09:29 AM   #22
hoit
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Re: T6Poker major fraud

This site was marked as a scam in swedish pokerforums before it even opened. Unrealistic goals and lies from start. Just to mention a one of those lies:

They claimed that 250K players would start playing at T6 the same day they opened, and 150K more players would be "bought" from other sites. LOL



Btw, isn't the user Blopp here on 2+2 is a paid pro for T6?
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Old 10-03-2008, 12:20 PM   #23
Akimka
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Re: T6Poker major fraud

Quote:
Originally Posted by A.Nironen View Post
T6 owners simply used "effective methods". "One may not approve such methods, but it's not wise to doubt their effectiveness." In other words, money has no smell.
Look. Really. This guy (TTR) using his own methods (black PR, even software piracy). I do not approve these methods and my quote was simple understanding state of the fact: he is doing a lot of unethical things but they are effective. If you need my help - email me (email in topic). I will give you a more through explanation of the situation.

Quote:
The pirate is still near the top of cgm.ru rating list. He ignores my emails and most likely feels very well running his affiliate business.
Although, as far as I know, he stopped distributing your program among his players.

Quote:
However, good luck to all Russian players in getting their money back from T6.

-Andrzej
Thank you!
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Old 10-03-2008, 12:22 PM   #24
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Re: T6Poker major fraud

Expected this coming

Good luck in getting the moniezzzzz back.
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Old 10-03-2008, 02:35 PM   #25
Akimka
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Re: T6Poker major fraud

Links with players with similar problems:

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/51...28/index4.html

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/28...candal-304004/

And one guy from Sweden emailed me. I hope he will register here and write his own story.

Please - you can help. Digg this topic, if you know some people from media send this topic please.

Your actions really matters now. We should give this story exposure or any room will feel that it can mess with players any way it want and players can do nothing to protect themselves.
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