50 chip never ran, I was ready to late reg

Oh well, maybe next week? Lol

Nope, not without running a script to format the hh. Some of the blind info is messed up and there are a lot of wacky corruptions that pop up in the hh, but still should be possible to do with some effort.

Ah that's too bad. Maybe I can find someone on one of those freelancing sites to make a script for me.

It's not much, but if you want to keep track of the number of hands you play I found a way to do that. Copy the text file into column A of Excel and use this formula

=COUNTIF(A:A,"*Hand*")

^^^^^

sweet/ was estimating my rb by the kb size of my daily hh files and krill obtained which is inaccurate

On a side note my glitch refund was 28 chips which is basically 3 cents lol. Ok, it's maybe $100; I was sooooo wrong. Anyways when I see free money I like to pick it up so I have claimed my associated bitcoin cash with the refund which amounts to 28mBcc which is like 20 bucks. The problem is that the transaction is too small to convert to BTC. In other words, I want to convert it into 4 chips but they are telling me that all the exchange and mining fees would eat it up and the minimum exchange is 35mBcc on changelly.

I've spent over an hour working on this and I think I'm gonna give up because $20 is just not worth it to me. I'll keep this bcc in my electron wallet, then when bcc skyrockets lol I'll find a way to cash it.

Anyone find a simple way to exchange this microscopic refund?

1. Here are some screenshots with the "tournament director" Glitch, dox'ing someone, which is against site rules. You will also see he is being highly abusive towards other players in chat.

http://imgur.com/a/Dm9y0

2. Here you will see the over raking situation has not been fixed.

http://i.imgur.com/1MwK2NY
http://imgur.com/a/Km9Ht

3. Here you will see where the players were lied to about getting their own HH after the investigation for refunds was finished. Trust this site if you want...

http://imgur.com/a/UvZBe

Sorry, not sure how to have them show up on the post.

Glitch does not dox anybody in the chat that you linked. Glitch would never ever do that. He HAS been known to lose his temper in the box. The source of his rage is usually (but not always) at least partially deserving of the "abuse". (ranting is a little bit more fair. The "troll box" is practically unmoderated and Glitch tolerates lots of abuse in his direction.)Glitch also generally apologizes shortly afterwards.
I have my own problems with Glitch, but I can assure everyone here that he is extremely honest, works hard to make everybody happy, accomodates people with issues and is willing to fess up when he or SWC make a mistake and try to make it right. He is generally liked by almost everyone and is pretty accessible.

The way this is worded, it sounds like the bug is still there. SO instead of "has not been fixed" use "before it was fixed".
This was obviously a poorly handled situation, but rather than say they were lied to say that it became apparent that they were unable to release the hand histories because of other data being collected and things not being formatted properly. Hopefully, SWCpoker will eventually figure out a way to get that info to people especially after saying they would do so. But what is important here to note is

a) everybody, who was determined to have been effected got refunded.
b) As has been mentioned in previous posts the main problem with SWC is a less than stellar dev crew, especially when it comes to timelines, but a tremendously honest and responsive staff when it comes to reimbursing people when they experience problems (which happen more often than they should).

Overall SWC is a fun place to play, you can instantly register with no dox, there are a variety of game types and mix games including OFC. The rake is extremely reasonable (as long as they take what they say) . Other than a small number of players in HU and short handed situations the stakes are mostly micro. But higher limits are available, it is just that the player base doesn't support it well. Some people appreciate the unmoderated chat box as well.

If you want to learn how to play mix there is no better place to learn and you should NOT fear getting ripped off. You may well get annoyed at some of the bugginess. You may occasionally get screwed by the lag, but when a glitch happens that costs you, they will usually make it right.

If you look at the screenshot, it's clear that this is a different over-raking bug. And I'm pretty sure the screenshot is from yesterday as I also saw that game running.

The rake really needs to be re-evaluated again anyway. I'd be happy to start some of the 2-7 games but 1 chip rake cap HU is so not happening even with 50% back.

Yes. This bug is from yesterday dude. Try and not pretend like you know what you're talking about.

With regards to the HH, if you think that's not a lie, then I don't even want to have a conversation with you. How am I to trust a company who has now failed to fix a glitch that shorts players money? 3 times. Think about it. There is no recourse obviously as they stated. So even if they missed one hand with 2 or 3 chips, and there is 0 option for recouse. I would classify that as theft.


When it comes to glitch dox'ing someone, he clearly states the users first name. If you're cool with people speaking that way to others. Especially to a customer, you're a special kind of stupid.

I appreciate you trying to defend them. You are just wrong in everything you posted.

Well, you're either in this industry or you aren't. If you know someone operating a site who is trustworthy and competent... no you don't. You're wrong.

It's pretty clear that no one at SwC really understands their software or what's involved with doing a good job of running a poker room. It's pretty sad that we're in an environment where that still makes it one of the best places to play.

But there it is.

I would have to say the less than 10 people that are actually active during any given time between cash, mtt, and sng's say that they are not one of the best places around to play.

They fixed the glitch, now they took our red stapler.

The biggest issue that I have not been able to figure out until recently, is why one of the former highest raking parts of the site - mix games between approx. $2/4-$30/60 or so, have been pretty much abandoned.

I used to open sit (still do sometimes) at 2chip/4chip - 15chip/30chip+ mix and draw games and usually get some action and often there would be a game started. Below 4/8 there were always games running right down to the micros.

Then it was brought to my attention that at 2/4 (basically only $8/16 USD), they are raking a HU match w 4/12 games split-pot as much as $4.50 a hand.

So that's why I haven't gotten any action recently - cuz I was the last to figure this rake stuff out (I knew it wasn't that I was SO SO good, that was never the question).

I don't know if swc just doesn't realize why mix has pretty much ceased at decent stakes. I mean I just figured it out myself. But they are losing all this money because of it. It doesn't take a genius to realize nobody in the world could beat that rake, hence no regs start games w me, and no recs see those games running and join, bringing more and more players.

Swc has always honored their word to me (responding to request for 12g HS tourney, refunds when appropriate, fixing non-random buttoning bug, etc). So I tend to think this is just one more swc screw up from not recognizing BTC's rise and effect on rake - that will eventually be handled if brought to their attention. ****, I'm certainly not perfect so I choose to give them the benefit of the doubt.

A few of the limit/mix players and I will be attempting to get them to revise their rake schedule so these mix games at the mid-stakes and higher will start to run again. The players want to play from what they tell me - they just don't want to be in a 4 handed game that lasts 45 minutes and every single player loses due to rake. I can't blame them. It's not a players vs. swc thing. Getting these games to run again is good for both. But these games will never run again until rake is fixed, from what I've been told by a half dozen of players in this pool that I've logged lots of hands with.

It's not like they get money from a sportsbook or casino. They need poker rake. Mix games were hugely popular and a big draw to their software, but find me a player that can win at $10/20 fixed limit w a $4.50 rake cap/hand HU, even in split pot games. Nobody can. SOMEBODY other than the site has to be able to win after rake. Hoping for the best.

What I don't get is why a couple guys still sit the midstakes cash games but no one will sit the midstakes HUSnGs where the rake is reasonable. Maybe we should start.

I did not realize that the post was from yesterday. Because I have been on the site since day one I feel certain that this overrake is not intentionally being done. Since it was discovered just yesterday, you might let support know and give them a chance to make it right. I am sure they would quickly reimburse you once they determined that a mistake was made. Hopefully support was contacted.

There are (as another poster mentioned) two elements to what you look for in a site. Trustworthiness and competence. In the case of SWC, I tolerate their incompetence because I feel confident I can trust them.

I believe that at the time they sent that email that they thought they would be able to deliver on that promise and only later realized that they couldn't deliver. I concede that their response was insufficient and hopefully they will realize the need to address this further.

That's the main reason I took valuable time from my incredibly busy and fascinating life to respond. Because if you weren't familiar with SWC, you might mistake incompetence with untrustworthiness. Since I have literally been a member since day one and was with the original sealswithclubs for a couple years and through the transition, I thought I would weigh in on what my experience has been with the site.

If they keep money they owe you or deliberately pilfered chips from you then it is theft. Otherwise it is an annoying lack of transparency due to unsatisfactory software. My belief is that it is the latter.


Revealing a players first name would definitely be inappropriate in a circumstance where the players' first name was never already mentioned publicly. In either event, if you think that revealing a person's first name is the equivalent of doxing them then you simply don't know the meaning of the word.

I wasn't trying to defend their actions.It is most disconcerting how they have handled this, BUT they DID reimburse everyone (hopefully for the correct amounts) and I will be very surprised if the person who got over-raked (in the sense of taking more than what they say not in the sense of whether or not it is a fair, rake which is a whole different subject) wont get a satisfactory refund.I was trying to reassure prospective players, looking for an opportunity to learn new games and have some fun, that while they should expect some irritating glitches, IMO they are not being deliberately stolen from.

You also want to take into account or at least make a note of the price of bitcoin if you are going to compare your results to other sites over time. One chip has ranged from .25 (in my day lower before my time) to 5 bucks.

Bitcoin has gone thru the roof lately and they have not had a chance to lower the rake caps. But last time btc spike they did.

I feel I can beat a net 1% rake even if capless. I guess that's a crazy statement but I've been playing a long time and have beat much higher net rakes.

If not a 0.5% rake per player, what rake do you suggest would be fair? What is in line with what the competition is offering?

Not sure how my post was quoted as Tapirboy, but I should prob not make you expect him to answer it.

Nobody can beat $4.25-$4.50 rake cap HU at $10/20 fl ($2.50/5 in the big bet games), when there are split pot games being played, as well as other games w very high variance and/or high variance, such as 2-7 td, badugi, and PLO. What does Stars charge for a 200/400 PLO game? Idk, but it's prob the same or less than swc is charging for games at 1/80th the stakes.

You're stating you "think you can beat a net 1% rake even if capless." It IS a crazy statement to make, based on the fact you haven't specified format, game, split-pot or scoop game, high edge game (like hunl) or very low edge game (like badugi). It tells me you may not understand the implications of rake on each game and why $4-$4.50 per hand cap HU when playing a 12 game mix that consists of many of the aforementioned games is impossible. After a 20 hand start to a HU match (6 hands of flhe, 6 of stud 8/b, 6 of PLO, and 2 of 2-7 td), I was down almost 6 chips (like $25) and my opponent was down about 2 chips (almost $10) at stakes of $10/20. That is unbeatable HU.

Maybe in a softer live scoop game (like stud hi) w 6-7 other players sharing the burden, the current rake can be beaten. But not when 2-3 regs/semi-regs are playing each other, filled w all these low edge games, some of which are split pot (which is a HUGE consideration, in and of itself).

But really, all my theory be damned. The proof is in the pudding. The mid/hi mix game scene has pretty much died and I'm one of maybe 1 or 2 other players that even bothers to open-sit at like 4/8+. I don't get any action. I used to get action. I'm no better than I was before as I'm not even a pro who is constantly studying to stay head of the curve. I'm a half-decent rec and I get maybe 1 or 2 players on the whole site left that will rarely sit me.

Once I started asking around, the answer was clear from ALL the players I used to play with: "Nobody can beat a semi-competent player at that rake, so regs don't bother battling, and recs don't have a game to join."

I want these games to return and I'd imagine swc would like the rake. I know it's prob not greed on their part and instead fits their pattern of semi-frequent incompetence. All they have to do is adjust rake in line w BTC prices and the split-pot games within their mix.

I've been asked to reach out to support and encourage a win-win situation, whereby rake gets in line again and the games return so I have something to play bigger than micros. They haven't abandoned poker for their non-existent sportsbook/casino. They are poker and just poker and they spread all the fun stuff. The players that lectured me on the rake situation all pledged to come take my money again once the rake is reasonable. We want to give them our rake and they won't let us. Again, I think it's just another oversight due to their oft-quoted "small development team".

Ok I'll address fixed limit holdem since it is my strongest game but I also love 27 TD. Note that it's impossible to play 27TD on any site besides seals because it is such a high variance low edge game that only high stakes rake can be beaten. Seals allows me to play even at micros and build up a roll and I am winning and not even that good.

Now 10/20 fixed limit holdem. Ok let's make bitcoin price 5000 because it's a rounder number. So 10/20 flh is 2/4 on seals. The average pot in a huhu flh game is appox 4 big bets and a pot which is big is typically 8-9 big bets and will include one raise. The biggest pots (over 13 big bets, which is only possible b/c you can 5 bet etc) will actually hit the rake cap. A 4 big bet pot will take out 0.32 and a 9 big bet pot will take out 0.72.

But it's IMPOSSIBLE not to get half that back even if you are a floudering seal etc you MUST get paid half back on sunday. On average they will take about 0.16 net in a $10/20 ie 2/4 game on seals and this is 80 cents on average but well over a dollar on big pots. Which IS beatable. I've played on bovada $2/4 and they've taken out a buck or more sometimes which is a quarter big bet and I still beat those games, just can't play from jersey and won't because of a way higher rake than seals. You are talking about way less than 1/20 of a big bet in 10/20. Maybe I'm just playing fish but somehow I beat games even if you take out more.

Now if you want to talk about 10/20 on seals well that is actually $50/100 and players in that game will pay 0.5 a hand after rake back which is $2.50 but still beatable. Stars definitely charges a lot more for high stakes limit.

Your points are good though and most importantly seals was blindsided with the dramatic increase in btc and like last time they will likely lower the caps. Hell, they even lowered the rake as well 4 months ago or so.

I pm'd you my screen name. I am actually a winning player on seals and have always beat the rake. It has not been too hard because I have played on soooo many higher raked sites in my life. Chico is 5.5%!!!!
And you have to play on a network named "chico" which could not possibly sound shadier lol.

The triple draw tables at least rake 2%, not 1%.

https://swcpoker.eu/swcpoker-faq/#rake

yes it's 2% but it's never gonna run 4 handed so it's 1%

There are high stakes players that seed fixed limit holdem and 27TD nearly every day. They are two of the only formats that consistently have players seeding high stakes. They would not seed if they felt they could not beat a NET 1% rake.

They can seed the games bc they both have the roll and are confident enough to try and hold lobby, just like I'm doing right now at 4/8 (like $17/34 usd) - even though I just got hnrun after 24 hands while writing this post lol.

But huhu flhe you can attain high WR and if 2-7 players have money they love to play (I'm a complete junkie for it myself). But notice that while these games are seeded, they hardly ever run. And those games have less rake implications than the 12g tables which I am seeding.

I'd love to see all the old 12g players back playing ring at decent stakes and most have told me they would love to come back - once the rake has been changed to where it's not brutalizing 2 regs playing to try and get a game going (even after tablestarter, which helps).

I'm not playing strictly for the money so I don't mind open sitting, knowing that if a good reg sits, we will both lose to the rake in most cases. I'm usually the last to ***** about rake. I don't even care much about it, as long as it wasn't preventing games running like it is now. Also, you are a pretty good player so you should be beating those games.

At least you got hit and run after an even # of hands lol. I try to never quit someone but sometimes I gotta and I try to give them the button last hand for good karma. And I always X out on a fold so it's like where'd he go?

As I said in PM if you are talking about 12 game with split pots etc that might be a different rake story. I was only saying an uncapped rake in flh @ 1% is actually beatable. It's odd that we have to debate whether a 1% rake is beatable but as I was saying in PM if the "perception" of the rake is too high than it IS too high despite my logix. You talk to these high stakes players and if that's their reason, then seals should definitely lower the cap.

People only stop by my tables to play me for a few hands quit after an odd number and call me a monkey, idiot, n word or f word. You actually have conversations with players; that's awesome!

The two high stakes players actually get almost daily action. There is a way to see this by checking the percentage/lack of percentage or h/hr/lack of h/hr you can tell if a table has gotten action in past 48 hours or so. For example they are both seeding right now and the triple draw guy has gotten action at every single high stakes table up to 15/30 ($70/140ish) The fixed limit holdem player has been on for years and fixed limit is not as hot as triple draw but he still has gotten some action at one of his tables recently as you can see. Also, when that guy DOES get action he is ruthless and will not sleep or take a break for days. Mostly he gets hit and runs like everyone else after all, but every once in a while look out...

I'm trying to play some btc poker, and trying to find a trustworthy site with some soft games, Is SWC poker really our only choice for bitcoin poker? I have done some research recently (see below for results), and see that SWC seems to be possibly the only hope.

Also, regarding the rake, I think SWC is like 3x better rake structure than Tiger gaming. I'm a 1/2 reg online for NLHE and PLO at betonline (yes, I am competition but hopefully you can still help me with honest answers), but I want to eventually do something else for a living, and so I am going into bitcoin and crypto currencies. However, I figure I might as well play some poker to help me score bitcoin, until I can do something else totally.

So I've done hours of research in finding bitcoin sites (betcoin.ag is shady with withdrawals), nitrogen sports has no fish there it seems other than at the micros, so now looking at SWC poker... I don't know anything about limit games as I never play them, but I know the rake is MUCH better at SWC poker than betonline (and betonline is beatable, but you have to be very good, unfortunately), just by looking at the comparison.

AND they are offering 50% rakeback for hu and 3 handed?? I've never seen anything that good before!

No. WPN, for example, will let you deposit and withdraw with Bitcoin.

However, from everything I've read, SWC is considered to be pretty soft.

I don't think you've looked at SWC (I have today) and there is almost literally no tables going, just some regs sitting.

WPN is not bitcoin poker It's USD. I'm actually talking about having a BTC balance not a USD balance.