** Supernova Elite Pursuit Thread 2015 - with related chat ** - Page 18 - Internet Poker

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** Supernova Elite Pursuit Thread 2015 - with related chat **

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12-10-2015 , 06:50 AM

#426

Malfato

enthusiast

Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 77

Amaya sux.

Filhos da puta.

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12-10-2015 , 07:37 AM

#427

Pinkmann

old hand

Join Date: Nov 2014 Posts: 1,487

Just took the email survey. It asks you how "cool" poker is, and what you think of Renaldo and neymar lol. Also asks what you think of other poker sites. I suggest you all go there and say you are going to play on party/888.

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12-10-2015 , 07:29 PM

#428

daddyrnac

old hand

Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 1,254

Quote:

Originally Posted by DNegs

I totally get why some of you are absolutely pissed. I have experienced that same emotion several times over the last six weeks and ALL options were on the table and always are. Do I think the added $4 million bonus to players excuses delaying the changes to Jan 1, 2017? No, I don't. If it were up to me, I would wait 12 months. It isn't up to me.

Once it became clear that I wasn't going to be able to reverse this decision, I did my absolute best to get the players the best deal possible. I get it. Anything less than the 12 month delay wouldn't be enough, but ultimately I felt like something was better than nothing.

What you don't do, is negotiate something on behalf of the players, then once they agree to it- quit!

If I would have quit, players get nothing. I negotiate on their behalf and stay with the company, they get $4 million in value in 2016 and player meetings going forward.

It was a LOSE-LOSE situation for me. I felt like the lesser of two evils was the one I chose and would benefit the players long term.

I took major personal risk saying anything at all. Like the other Team Pros, I have a signed contract that I'm required to honor. I don't blame any of them for staying silent on this. I chose to do the best I could to make sure the company realizes how important communication with the players is going forward and how our communication the last year was unacceptable.

All I can really do now is take responsibility for not being more active on all this and asking the right questions in Oct 2014. I think that's true of all of us frankly. When they wrote that original newsletter, myself, and the community as a whole should have demanded more clarity on what that means exactly.

Bottom line is, there were no easy decisions here and I didn't take any of them lightly. I understand the severity of all this and I'm committed to making sure that nothing like this gets by me, and the community, in the future.

We're all to blame, if only there had been a thread for SupernovaElites, where they could persistently ask Pokerstars for information on the changes and hold them accountable to their announcement deadlines...

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12-10-2015 , 08:07 PM

#429

Gramps

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 6,588

Lol. I also love the fact that in defense of their CEO, Stars mouthpieces are now proclaiming that the VIP changes were already scheduled to take place on January 1, 2015, but that Baazov told them in October 2014 to push those changes back for a year (we should thank David for giving us another year, back-off guys!).

So...what they're also saying is that they pretty clearly knew big changes were coming over a year ago, but couldn't be bothered to effectively communicate such to a group of players that they had (explicitly and implicitly) build-up a long-term relationship with for over close to a decade in promoting people to pursue the highest levels in their VIP system...

Last edited by Gramps; 12-10-2015 at 08:09 PM. Reason: It's their company, they can do whatever the **** they want. But they also deserve all the flak/push-back they're getting.

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12-10-2015 , 08:52 PM

#430

Greg29

grinder

Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 649

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gramps

Lol. I also love the fact that in defense of their CEO, Stars mouthpieces are now proclaiming that the VIP changes were already scheduled to take place on January 1, 2015, but that Baazov told them in October 2014 to push those changes back for a year (we should thank David for giving us another year, back-off guys!).

So...what they're also saying is that they pretty clearly knew big changes were coming over a year ago, but couldn't be bothered to effectively communicate such to a group of players that they had (explicitly and implicitly) build-up a long-term relationship with for over close to a decade in promoting people to pursue the highest levels in their VIP system...

Exactly, if you are aware that these massive changes are coming, have the decency to warn the SNE (I am one) what the changes will be at the beginning of 2015, even if you're not sure what will be the exact numbers. I think its pretty obvious that they were counting on us SNE generating a maximum amount of rake for one last year and it has nothing to do with Baazov's generosity ... Come on dont think we're idiots

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12-10-2015 , 09:09 PM

#431

daddyrnac

old hand

Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 1,254

Quote:

These had been agreed to by the previous owners and management. The reason that didn't happen was because of CEO David Baazov. Those inside the company were adamant that these changes needed to happen years ago and that it was imperative that they were made immediately.

It was David Baazov's decision to delay the changes a full year, because he felt it was the right thing to do. He felt as though it hadn't been communicated to players early enough, so despite understanding the necessity of the changes, he chose to give players an additional year of full benefits before making the cuts.

Quote:

It was decided that the highest tier of the VIP program, SuperNova Elite, be cut from 63% rakeback down to 30% [...] PRM (Poker Room Management) stood firm that SNE players should get a bump from 30% to 45% for 2016.

What a **** show. One minute the management want cuts now, the next they "stood firm" to get 45% for SNEs. One minute Baazov is giving SNE another year because it hasn't been communicated, the next he isn't communicating changes and then presumably is routing for SNEs to get 30%, not 45%.

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12-10-2015 , 09:37 PM

#432

Gramps

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 6,588

It's the sort of behavior you see from people who are in pretty cushy jobs (i.e. non-competitive once you get the title) going about a pretty normal day-to-day, not having to be challenged or threatened to perform at a high standard or else they get terminated, pay reduced, etc.

Either that or it's a bureaucratic quagmire to get anything through channels for permission to communicate outwardly.

Or both.

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12-11-2015 , 09:02 AM

#433

daddyrnac

old hand

Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 1,254

DNegs states on the 2+2 Pokercast that Pokerstars worked out the numbers to give SNEs 50% rakeback instead of 45% rakeback in 2016 and it came out at ~$2.8m cost to Pokerstars.

However they then "came up with something that was better than the $2.8m" by "making it $4m and opening it up to the whole community".

DN then says "what's better for the community?" and that he "seeks to get the best value available for the players"...

Instead of getting $2.8m, we get around $1-5 of equity each in a freeroll most of us won't play and 4 lots of server lag through 2016. Instead of going some way to make better their broken promise towards SNEs they give money to the whole community, the vast majority of this money will end up back in Pokerstars pocket through the rake.

#couldhavedonemore

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12-11-2015 , 11:56 AM

#434

Max Cut

Guest

Posts: n/a

So the original deal was if you eat 30 Big Macs in a month, you get a Jaguar. Then after eating 27 Big Macs, they changed it to a Hyundai. Then they considered throwing in a sun roof but instead opted to hand out bus passes to everyone.

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12-11-2015 , 12:16 PM

#435

Sect7G

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 11,234

Quote:

Originally Posted by daddyrnac

DNegs states on the 2+2 Pokercast that Pokerstars worked out the numbers to give SNEs 50% rakeback instead of 45% rakeback in 2016 and it came out at ~$2.8m cost to Pokerstars.

However they then "came up with something that was better than the $2.8m" by "making it $4m and opening it up to the whole community".

DN then says "what's better for the community?" and that he "seeks to get the best value available for the players"...

Instead of getting $2.8m, we get around $1-5 of equity each in a freeroll most of us won't play and 4 lots of server lag through 2016. Instead of going some way to make better their broken promise towards SNEs they give money to the whole community, the vast majority of this money will end up back in Pokerstars pocket through the rake.

#couldhavedonemore

The fact that DNegs doesn't see this is why a 6 power course on the VIP program isn't sufficient to try and be a voice for the players. I do believe he'd like to see communications improve but he needs to get people to the table that really understand all the angles of any proposed changes.

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12-11-2015 , 01:19 PM

#436

MeleaB

See my Commercial Software thread

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 5,395

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sect7G

The fact that DNegs doesn't see this is why a 6 power course on the VIP program isn't sufficient to try and be a voice for the players. I do believe he'd like to see communications improve but he needs to get people to the table that really understand all the angles of any proposed changes.

I've said this many times (that a group of players are needed if efficient modelling is to be done) and Ansky has repeated it also. (We both based our opinion on our experiences from being part of the Seating Script consultation group that worked with Stars.) I suggested that Stars couldn't have consulted with anyone with suitable qualifications as no players had been approached. Eric Hollreiser made a point in his blog to counter such an assumption, but I stand by my opinion that the group they have (albeit including some knowledgeable ex-players) isn't sufficient.