Not sure if Rng should be used in the title but i got a software question concerning all sites. Whether playing on stars, partypoker, wpn or whatever site online, are the cards already shuffled and arranged before they are dealt? And thus if a player takes a long time to act or fast time to act, the flop, turn and river is going to be the same cards regardless?


Example everyone gets dealt their cards. And then action begins. Let say someone shoves all in to make it simple. Its folded to a player and they are going to call. But instead of instant calling, they wait a bit before they call. But whether they call right now or say a few seconds from now, is the flop going to be the same regardness? Thus in live poker, well after the cards are shuffled, well the flop, turn and river will be the same cards regardness assuming the dealer does not make an error.


Or say a player bets the flop and then other player takes a while to call. Does him calling that bet compared to taking say a few seconds mean the turn card will be the same regardless? I ask this because i recalled i read a while back full tilt poker... i believe all the cards change all the time? Thus if you take a while to call a flop bet... well the cards are constantly changing so if you wait a bit the turn card will be different etc due to RNG? I'm not sure if this is correct or not but i recalled i read something like this a while back. So does waiting a few seconds to act mean the flop, turn and river will be different? And is it the same on all sites? I know this might sound like a very elementary question. Thanks.

It's not the same on all the sites, so if you care, you should ask them. But you shouldn't care.

Also, why do you feel the need to turn what is essentially one question (maybe two), into nine? Posts like this (and the fact that all you ever do is ask question after question after question and never contribute anything helpful yourself) are why people are hesitant to answer your questions. Think things through, and then ask what you really want to know.

Depends on the site. Not sure what they do now, but in the old days on Poker Stars the deck was set before the cards were dealt, and on Full Tilt the RNG kept going, which is why flips were better on Full Tilt.

Can you explain why that would make flips any better?

Thanks for clearing this up i was wondering about this until recently considered starting a thread to get clarification.

As gregorio said in the days stars and FTP were seperate companies they used different systems stars the deck was set FTP you could 2 outer yourself by clicking call at the wrong time. He is wrong that FTP was better for flips though my timing must of been horrific hated that site. Would assume the current system on stars will be the deck is set as they absorbed FTP not the other way round.

He did clarify that the deck is set in live poker bobo that might be the first statement he has ever made here that wasn't a question. There was actually a NVG thread a while ago where the dealer was shuffling the deck before the turn and river i believe it was at the triton highroller cash game. Will admit this is the first time i have heard of this happening so maybe the deck being set in live poker isn't always the case.

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Well i recall back then full tilt poker had a continous shuffle so like the other person said, whether you call or raise now or wait a few seconds, it would matter since the cards are always shuffling. I thought, why are the cards not predetermined already. I always wondered why certain players back then would take a while to call when it was obvious they would call an all in. Like did they think okay i have the worst hand now, so i wait a bit before calling because that seem to give the weaker hand a slight edge? I seen lot of regs back then do it and sometimes now even.



Okay so gregario says back then the cards on stars were preset. Do they do that now? I had no idea if they did it back then, only site i knew that did that was full tilt. Does anyone know if 888, party or wpn does this? Or say bovada?



I mean do most agree no site should have a continuous shuffle? That is ridiculous that if someone calls an all in now as oppose to few seconds later, a different turn or river card will show up. The same as if you take longer to act preflop, that changes the flop such as you close the action now as oppose to few seconds later preflop, a different flop comes.

+1

Do you seriously believe it matters what way cards are dealt out of a random deck when no one knows what card will be dealt next?

In fact, if you knew in a home game that the deck had been set up by your opponent to give him the winning hand, would you not rather cut the deck every time before he received his next card so that he didn't receive the one he had planned to receive? The continuous shuffle actually removes the risk of playing against a pre-set up result and in itself randomises the deal.

I've never heard of any reg using such a strategy. If they suggested it, it would either be as a joke, or an indication that they've lost their ****ing mind and are resorting to superstitious nonsense.

the way the theory goes is as follows.. Statistically speaking the larger sample size you have the more likely the median average will be to show up. So if you tank when you're ahead you're less likely to be coolered, and vice versa , if u snap shove or call when behind you're more likely to see an unlikely statistical result (board run out) when playing with a continuously shuffling deck is the way I understand the theory.

That theory is quite the verbal salad, when it can really be summarized in the following:

- People who believe in lucky charms and superstitions will believe that timing a play on Full Tilt matters due to its continual shuffle.

- People who do not believe in mystical forces will realize that it makes literally no difference at all.

Superstitious people will cherry pick specific examples to verify their beliefs. They like to use a nice mix of hindsight, expectancy and confirmation bias.


Here is a song about bias. Very catchy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3RsbmjNLQkc

All the best.

LOL.

Haha, that's awesome!

Bro, you aren't moving your mouse in 2 circles and the 3 diagonals every all in? I switched from up downs and left right, and it has made a huge difference.

I'm terrible at games that require hand-eye coordination skills, so that must be why I've lost every flip for the last 6 years. Skill games are so unfair.

I was very proud of my lifetime -150% ROI on Tilt (1 tournament with a second entry when sharkscope didn't handle the math too well on those), and now I can take solace that it was all because I did not master the timing of mouse clicks.

Well to be honest, I did not believe this. But when you play on many sites and you notice how people always talk about bad beats on stars etc, you have to wonder at least a bit don't you?


A home game is completely different in your example.


But has stars or anyone confirm that stars or any other sites do not use the rng that full tilt does at the moment? Someone mentioned in this thread a while back that stars cards were preset a while back... but are they still like this now. I mean, when you take a few seconds to call or instant call and that means its going to be different card, well I'm pretty sure most ppl would not prefer this?

No.

No, you don't. Not in the least.

Email the sites and find out. For once in your life, lift a ****ing finger and do something for yourself.

Thinking people don't care.

Muppets like you worry about it. The same kind of people who also get upset when the guy in the "anchor seat" at a Blackjack table "takes the dealer's bust card".

If I had the choice between a 'good' card and a 'bad' card, I'd obviously pick the good card. If the choice is between a random card and another random card (which is the case whether the deck was set before the hand or is still being shuffled), it makes no difference when I choose, so I click randomly. YOU HAVE NO CONTROL OVER THE RANDOM CARDS BEING DEALT.

It sounds to me like you need to take a break from poker before you go full rigtard.

Anecdotal pattern recognition leads me to believe the deck is on continual shuffle with Ignition/Bovada, etc. However, I don't practice the holy cross of mouse movements before shoving.

There are theoretical differences, especially in the context of some sites like PartyPoker no longer allowing players to have access to hand histories for analysis to check for shuffling manipulation.

With a pre-set shuffle, there is no risk of "action flops" since the site won't know who is in the hand on the flop/turn/river.

With a continuous shuffle, there is no risk of an unauthorised hacker gaining access to the cards before they are dealt.

I'm not sure this is especially relevant, since an uncompromised continuous shuffle also doesn't allow for this either. The only way a site can deal an action flop that takes into account what players have is to compromise the results of the RNG, regardless of whether it's a continuous or preset shuffle. And besides that, if a site is rigging the deck like this, it doesn't matter what kind of shuffle they say they use - they're already lying about the randomness of their deal, so they could just lie about the shuffle as well.

There's nowhere that I believe this is happening, I'm just saying that the kind of shuffle a site says they're using has no bearing on how likely or possible it is for them to rig the deal.