so I agree with the basic premise that its OK for site's to do this and confiscate winnings from future accounts....as long as the money was won from the house, it's their decision IMO.

the only big thing I think that's been left out of this whole discussion is the fact that US facing sites like WPN/Bovada simply DO NOT validate accounts/ID until *after* you initiate a substantial cashout.

sadly there is also plenty of evidence of people creating new accounts on these sites and cashing out poker winnings without having to verify anything at all. shocking that a site like this was allowed to advertise on here.

so when you realize how bad their security teams are, its no surprise they don't catch these people until they attempt to withdrawal sizable sums won from the house. Otherwise I do think they would just not allow action from these suspect/related accounts until proven otherwise. I just hope they care this much about money won off other players on the poker tables.

P.S. Bobo just so you know this was one of the very same issues I attempted to discuss in regards to WPN....but i was censored from even starting the discussion.

Where and how were you censored?

Rather than derail this thread, why wouldn't you just continue our conversation in the thread about WPN - the one where I responded to you and then you just disappeared?

In case you lost your way, here you go:

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/s...&postcount=184

It wasn't left out. I touch on it below.

Dear Mr. Kim,

Thank you for contacting the office of the Dispute Resolution. We have taken the time to carefully review your dispute and conduct our independent investigation in order to address this accordingly.

As per your email to the DRO, you claim that you were told, due to a previous past account with a negative balance resulting from chargebacks – a positive balance was consequently forfeited from a ‘newer’ account you later created.

Through our investigation, we acknowledge your first account does in fact have a negative balance (-$4655.00 USD) due to chargebacks and was created on 11/04/2012. A second account was later created on 09/23/2015 which had a positive balance of $2500.80 USD.

On 10/01/2016, we observed a telephone conversation you had with an agent from Bovada’s Accounting department. In that conversation, it is indisputable that you were made well aware and acknowledged the negative balance incurred due to chargebacks made. Our findings extend that the agent you spoke to, negotiated a settlement in your favor in order to resolve the account amicably. A settlement you chose to not go forth with.

Rather than sorting out the issue, you instead created a third account on 19/01/2018 which you built up a balance of $11,171.47 USD. It’s important to note that all accounts we reviewed were successfully created due to information on file that you slightly altered. Your account was brought to the attention of Bovada’s Security department due to the similarities which ranged from IP activity, address and screened security profile.

As per the DRO, the chronological sequence of events mentioned above are indicative of someone circumventing a negative-balanced account. You were given the opportunity to remedy the situation but chose not to. Your actions are in clear violations of Bovada’s Terms of Service – specifically the ones we’d like to highlight below:

4.7 Uncollected or Reversed Deposits. If any deposit is charged back or is otherwise uncollectible for any reason, any and all winnings generated from play or bets conducted in such Account from the time of the applicable deposit until its reversal or un-collectability shall be invalidated, forfeited and deducted from your Account balance. In addition, the amount of the initial failed deposit will be invalidated, forfeited and deducted from the Account balance. In the event that, following such deductions, your Account balance is in a negative balance; you expressly acknowledge and agree that such negative balance shall constitute an uncontestable debt payable by you to us, due and payable immediately. You expressly acknowledge and agree that, in the event of non-payment of such debt, we may assign such debt to one or more collections agencies, who shall have the legal right to pursue such assigned debt using any or all available legal remedies. Note that following the assignment of such debt to a collections agency, the resolution of such debt and any legal processes associated therewith are not within our control and must be negotiated or resolved directly with such collections agency.

3.2 Single Account Access. You are permitted to open only one (1) Account. Only one account is allowed per household. Multiple accounts held by the same individual are subject to immediate closure and we reserve the right to seize any funds gained as a result of holding multiple accounts. Furthermore you shall not permit another person to access the Website or Software via your account without the express permission of Bovada.

After careful review and analysis, we unfortunately cannot assist you any further regarding your dispute. Bovada acted in good faith in offering you a pathway to resolve the situation before it escalated to its present state. Bovada’s actions are in line with the Terms of Service that you agreed upon when you created the account(s). We’d also like to remind you that by contacting the DRO, this ruling is final and it is at Bovada’s discretion who they choose to do business with.

Kind regards,

Dispute Resolution Office.

Sorry for taking a long time to respond, I didn't see all of the stuff going on in this thread. I actually posted on another site to try to get some help and they actually deleted my thread just as I was getting support from the community. I think this case gets worse: Bovada is rated A+ on their site and my entire thread with 30+ posts was deleted.
This was my OP from the other site (Can mod please tell me if I can update the OP with this post it is allowed? Thank you)



Hello, I found this site after googling "Bovada stole my money" and it appears in the last 12-18 months I am not the only one this has happened to with regards to getting funds stolen from sportsbetting confiscated incorrectly. Now let me explain my story, which may not be 100% accurate due to my account (and my records and bet histories) being completely innaccessible because of this bull****. I deposited sometime in January to play poker, everything was fine I won some, I lost some, no problem. The problems started when I began sportsbetting, I made a few thousand in quick bets and I hit a 90:1 underdog with a $100 bet that to me it appears that Bovada does not want to pay out (Loyola Chicago to go to Final 4 in March Madness of NCAAB). This made my $1500 deposit into $12,000 (Their records are wrong as they closed my account with 500+ in bets pending that mysteriously disappeared. It is ironic that my account never had any problems until that almost 5-figure hit. I was gambling on the account with no problems for almost 3 months straight with a lot of activity. Now supposedly according to Bovada I do not have 1, but 3 accounts with them. My name, Joseph Kim, is a pretty common name and their records are clearly out of whack. They claim I not only committed bank fraud with a first account created on 11/4/2012, but created a second account on 9/23/2015 which had a positive balance of $2500 sitting. $2500 is a lot to me and I assure you that I would not leave it on a gambling site. Additionally, these guys claim that on 10/1/2016 they had a phone call with me which is clearly impossible as I was incarcerated at the time and I have records for that prove Bovada completely wrong. All in all, their arguments are falling apart, my $12000 is out of reach and I feel like they answer to no one. I have called in at least 15 times and am placed on hold for 20+ minutes and run through the same circles of boring conversations from ****ty customer support. They do not deserve an A+ rating on your site, and even if I somehow got my money back, I still believe they are not running a legitimate operation. I will be forwarding the email correspondence to help@sportsbookreview.com and hopefully you can help me.

Also to clarify with people who are saying I theoretically could have charged back my deposit and freeroll the book, I deposited with bitcoin so that point is not debatable.

The above response was meant to quote this

Also, I do not like posting this because I know a lot of people will be judgemental towards me but please just look at the facts in my case against Bovada and the facts laid out here as this is part of my evidence that I am not the person they think I am as I could not have made the phone call that supposedly happened "factually" by their records...

"On 10/01/2016, we observed a telephone conversation you had with an agent from Bovada’s Accounting department. In that conversation, it is indisputable that you were made well aware and acknowledged the negative balance incurred due to chargebacks made. Our findings extend that the agent you spoke to, negotiated a settlement in your favor in order to resolve the account amicably. A settlement you chose to not go forth with."
Impossible phone call as I was incarcerated at this time and the person they talked to simply was not me since I can't be in two places at once.
https://patch.com/california/banning...tempted-murder
Again, not proud of this but it is an important point in my case, please just stay on topic with the thread and the money that Bovada has taken. I consider the money lost and this is more of a public service announcement than anything else.

Plot THICKENS . . . .

The article that he linked (and similar articles) only gives the arrest date (July 2016), with a felony settlement conference scheduled for Aug 19 2016. It doesn't say anything about whether he was incarcerated in October 2016 at the time of the call.

I'd be interested in seeing proof of incarceration. Everything else seems to show Bovada doing an A+ job, even to the point of offering a favorable settlement.

Not to be judgmental, but I've read everything here, and that's how it looks.

Should be easy enough to show Bovada and whatever other entity you reported this to that you were incarcerated during this supposed phone call

Still might not help your overall case, but it’s a start

sry double posted

Why would I make a third account and deposit $1500 with my bitcoin if I supposedly had been banned from square one, and had a second account in good standing with a $2500 balance? Just saying their story does not add up, coupled with no proof provided from their end and a missing $12,000.

I already did that and that was when I was offered my initial deposit back and it didn't get me anywhere, which is why I ended up posting the story online as sort of a last resort/expose the situation. This thread now has 3000 views so that makes me happy

Once again, I've read this entire thread, including everything said by you, Bovada, and the appeals board, the Bovada terms of service - everything. I'm a poker player and a sports bettor, and my natural bias is to hold these sites accountable, and to be on the player's side. In general, I'm quite disappointed by the behavior of these sites, certainly including the way they treat their customers during disputes.

It's my honest opinion that in this case, Bovada seems to have performed very well, and that their story and their credibility easily exceeds yours - not by a little, but by a huge margin. It doesn't seem to be close. You've got a lot of work remaining if you went to present a convincing story.

Sorry, but this is how I see it.

Did you read the longish email that was sent to you that you posted?

I'd be pissed too if I wasted my one phone call on Bovada customer support.

I started to think this was a joke after the jail thing.

I mean really, sorry that couldn't have been me on the phone I was busy stabbing someone at the time.

But seriously tho I'm a real honest and trustworthy guy

It looks like you stole from Bovada the first time. Get your gambling under control

Sent from my LGMS210 using Tapatalk

Re read their posts... the information does not match mine because they aren't me.

I don't see how it can matter what the circumstances were when I couldn't have been in two places at once and Bovada's case is falling apart, especially since they won't provide ANY evidence of a case with "mountains" of fake evidence stacked against me. Use your cognitive reasoning please and leave emotions out of your decision.

So you think that it is more likely I made three accounts in total: one with a fraudulent chargeback for 4.5k, made a second account that had $2500 in the balance in good standing, then deposited $1500 legitimately with bitcoin to make a third account (on a site I supposedly charged back) when I could have easily used the second account WITH MORE MONEY without depositing? Or is it more likely that their story does not add up? Jesus, they can't even provide proof of ANY of their claims which, by the way, don't even make sense.

I can get evidence I was incarcerated on 10/1/2016 but does that really mean THAT much in this case? It's pretty obvious (at least to me) that I am not these 3 different accounts lol.

Every time you post, you make yourself look worse. It makes me wonder whether you're actually someone who's using that name to smear the real Joe Kim.

I will no longer participate in your smear campaign against Joe Kim.

OP, I have no idea why you keep sending me PMs asking me to respond to this thread - what are you expecting I'm going to say or be able to do? I know nothing more know than I did before, and I don't work at Bovada. Sorry, nothing I can do.