This was a response to another thread but I thought it needed its own thread. I just cut and pasted it from this thread, http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/28...50/index2.html.

A similar situation happened to me this past week except my whole role was taken because my FTP account was closed. My situation dates back to 2005.

I have been playing on FTP since 2005 and like OP used Nexum and Neteller to fund my account between 2005-2007. When Neteller left the US market, they failed to follow through with a final wire withdrawal for $4000 I had requested before they shut down their US operations. They stated via emails and phone messages that if I didn't receive the wire they would simply return the funds to my merchant (FTP) account. Well needless to say I never received the funds in my bank account or my FTP account.

To get even with them, or out of anger, I put a stop payment on a deposit, $600, to Neteller that had not hit my bank account yet. Following the payment being returned to Neteller from my bank, they had my FTP aco**** locked. I never received the $4K and didn't even get to use the $600 as my FTP account was suspended. FTP support told me that they would send the $600 back to Neteller and my account would be re-opened yet I explained through numerous emails to FTP support that they shouldn't do such a thing as Neteller owed me money. FTP support than stated that they wouldn't send the $600 to Neteller but my account would remain closed until I payed back Neteller.

After numerous emails to FTP support, they told me that I could open a new account with them as the issues with US players withdrawals being lost or not received from Neteller was increasing since Neteller had to cease operations with US players. Unfortunately due to their agreement with Neteller they couldn't re-open my primary account until Neteller informed them I had paid the $600. As a result I created a new account, FTP support transfered over my remaining role from my primary account, minus the $600, to this second account which I blew off in about a week out of frustration from losing $4K to Neteller. I never funded this second account myself and because I was disgusted with my loss of $4k I decided to move to PStars shortly after in 2007.

I didn't play on FTP from 2007 till late 2008. I decided In Oct. 2008 that I was sick of playing on PStars because of the cards not being shown during all-in showdowns on the cash tables so I figured I would try to explain my situation again to FTP support and try to have my primary account re-opened. I had been reading on 2+2 about FTP closing/banning multi-accounters so I wanted to just use my original account and have me second account closed so I wouldn't run into any probelms. FTP support finally opened back up my primary account in Nov. 08 which had a zero balance and closed my second account. Apparently they transfered back the $600 from my primary account to Neteller. I figured I would just move on and start over.

Unfortunately, when trying to fund my FTP account, FTP support denied my deposit requests via echeck because they stated that my Credit Union didn't accept these payment types. I assumed that payments had been returned to them in the past. No big deal. My credit cards also didn't work so upon advice from FTP support I used UltraPrepaid.

At first UPP worked smooth. I deposited via echeck to UPP which was accepted by my credit union and than transfered it over to my FTP account. Why would my echeck deposits work on UPP but not FTP? Also, the fees on UPP were ridiculous. Than one day I went to login to my FTP account and it was locked. FTP support told me that my account was locked because UPP informed them I had a returned deposit. I never had any deposit returned to UPP. I contacted UPP support, gave them copies of my bank statements and even had a three way phone conversation with support and my bank to show them that my deposits with them had indeed cleared. UPP admitted it was a mistake on their end and they had my FTP account reinstated.

This happened 3 times to me over 3 months, each time UPP admitting it was a mistake and having my FTP account opened. Than it happend one last time with UPP not answering my emails or phone calls and my FTP account remaining closed with a significant balance in it. Than one day, UPP support sent out an email stating they would be ceasing opertaions and I freaked out.

I was nervous that UPP would be gone and my FTP account would remain locked with my whole role in it. I emailed FTP support expressing my concerns and "Adam" responded with this:


Hello XXXXXX,


Ultra Pre-Paid is still in business.

As previously mentioned, your account will remain closed until you have
fully resolved this issue with Ultra-Pre-Paid.

Regards,

Adam
Financial Security
Full Tilt Poker

I forwarded the UPP email to FTP support and two days later I received this email:

Hello XXXXXX,

While it is unfortunate that UPP will be ceasing operations on April 10th,
it does not erase the fact that their customer support was always
responsive as I explained in my email back on 01/05/09.

Regards,

Adam
Financial Security
Full Tilt Poker


UPP supposedly continued to tell FTP that I had owed them a little over $2K which I didn't. After months of no repsonse from UPP and "Adam" from FTP stonewalling me with answers, UPP finally contacted me and offered a payment plan. I told them I refused to pay because I didn't owe them anything. Finally I agreed to pay $1700 to them via Visa. The $1700 was agreed upon after an "ADAM" from UPP waived the returned deposit fees they charge. Even though I didn't owe them anything, it was necessary to just take the hit because I still had more money in my FTP account and it was cost effecient. "ADAM" from UPP support told me they would have my FTP account reinstated within a week. It never was. I contacted FTP and they told me UPP never contacted them and that my account would remained closed until they did. The whole time I received email responses only from "Adam" at FTP.

Finally I called "Adam" at UPP out telling him I was curious if hes was the same "Adam" from UPP and if UPP was owned by FTP. Here was his response:

Hello XXXXXX,

Be advised, I am employed by Full Tilt Poker and not Ultra Pre-Paid, also be advised, 'Adam' is a very common first name.

Furthermore, Ultra Pre-Paid is not owned by Full Tilt Poker.

As previously mentioned, we will not be able to release any funds currently in your Full Tilt Poker account until you have fully resolved your issues with Ultra Pre-Paid.

Thank you again for your cooperation.

Regards,

Adam
Financial Security
Full Tilt Poker


Than I emailed this response:

Adam,

Thank you for the response.

I would like to know how I can go about getting my account unsuspended. As I
have stated in prior emails, I made a payment to UPP and was informed that I
satisfied my account with them. I have the email and credit card transaction
to show my payment. I also have my bank statements showing my original
deposits with them clearing. The number for them no longer works and their
website is gone. How do I go about getting my account re-opened because UPP
is gone.

Thank you for your time.

This was his response:

Hello XXXXXX,

Thank you for writing in.

As previously mentioned, we will not be able to reopen your account until
the outstanding issue with UPP has been resolved.

From the last correspondence we received from them, they informed us a
repayment has not been made.

Rest assured, their merchant support department is still fully functional
so please forward any documentation you have available so we may forward
it on to them for verification.

Should they confirm you have resolved all outstanding issues with them,
your account on Full Tilt Poker will be reinstated.

Regards,

Adam
Financial Security
Full Tilt Poker

UPP went out of business yet their support department is still "fully functional"? Or maybe its because FTP ran UPP and used them as a way to charge their players high deposit/withdrawal fees by telling them to use UPP when the echeck deposit functions on FTP suppossedly wasn't an option for them.

Any way, I emailed "Adam" my credit card statment showing the $1700 payment to UPP and he responded with this:

Hello,

Thank you for writing back.

We have received a reply from UPP and they have informed us you still owe
a total of $3,304.21.

Please let us know if you have any other questions or concerns.

Regards,

Adam
Financial Security
Full Tilt Poker

Now they stated I owe over $3K when it was $2K. I responded with this email:

Adam,

First you stated I owed them a little over 2K now it is 3K.

Explain to me how I go about getting this resolved because I payed them
their money minus the returned check fees from the 2K. I have my credit card
statement and receipt from them.

I need to know how to go about proving my payment.

Thank you

I than received a final email from FTP "Adam" stating my account had been permanately closed and my funds confiscated for having multiple accounts. He listed my primary account, the second account FTP allowed me to open and a third account which I never heard of or created.

Bottom line, FTP is a terrible run business and fraudulent. I lost my $4K with Neteller, the $1700 I just paid to UPP, plus my entire role.

There is no doubt in my mind that FTP continues to open and close payment processors like UPP as a way to genreate more revenue by charging crazy deposit/withdrawal fees to its players. Its not a coincidence that GatorPay had been operated by the same company as UPP and once GatorPay went under UPP popped up. FTP was the only online site that accepted both as deposit options. It won't be long until FTP creates another UPP or GatorPay.

This "Adam" from FTP and UPP is the same person. I was scammed out of an additional $1700 by him. To make matters worse, I contacted my credit card company and asked them for the details behind the $1700 transaction and it appears my payment was manually keyed in a card termnial at a Western Union location for a cash advance in Europe. I made my payment over the phone but this just seemed a little weird to me. I believe he scammed $1700 out of me and created a third FTP account under my name as a way to justify closing my account to make me go away.

I have obviously since cancelled that card and got a new one.

"Adam" from FTP/UPP has screwed me over and I hope there aren't others who have had this same experience. FTP can't be trusted and as they squeeze every last penny out of their loyal players. Think about it, they only offer rakeback to certain individuals or purposely telling individuals to use their other created processor to deposit so they can charge higher fees.

I have all emails dating back to 2005 to back up the Neteller/UPP/FTP support responses.

Good luck to anyone who trusts this site.

Cliffnotes:

There is no evidence for this assertion.

fishy sounds real fishy why you would pay 1700 when u didnt owe it

Wow, that's unbelievable.....

Because I was at a dead end and didn't want my FTP account to remained closed with my entire online roll in it. Which is what happened anyway. Look I appreciate the responses but Im not here to get my account/money back. I posted this as a warning for FTP players.

fwiw they closed my account with 18k in it cause passport something said i owed 70 bucks.. which i never even used passport and i agreed they could tke the 70 out and reopen my account lol.. i never got the 70 back but i wrote it off as the cost of doing business.

Regulation in the USA would be nice. Bring on the change Obama, bring on the change.

You're 100% correct.

However, there is no doubt that FTP owned/operated GatorPay and UltraPrepaid no matter how much they deny it IMO. FTP makes no money off deposits on their site via echeck because there are no fees. By not approving players, US players mostly, to use echeck, they are forced to use one of these "third party sites" echeck deposit options in order to get money on FTP. These "third party" sites charge ridiculous fees. When FTP states that "your financial institution doesn't participate in the echeck deposit method", that is 100% incorrect.

According to an explanation given to me from a friend who is a bank branch manager, "the merchant is simply choosing not to conduct electronic transactions with certain financial institutions".

Leaving US players with little options but to use sites like GatorPay and UPP to deposit on FTP and being charged high fees as a result is a scumbag way of treating your players. FTP support simply says that they don't make a dime off of the fees associated with deposits on one of these sites.

If thats the case and FTP doesn't own/run GatorPay/UPP than explain this to me:

Why does the routing number and checking account number on two separate checks, from the same processor, one from FTP and one from UPP match? The account info from a PStars check doesn't match the info from an FTP check and they are from the same processor.

The answer is simply that FTP uses such sites to take advantage of its US player base. Once too much heat or issues arise from having these sites they simply leave the market and pop up under a new name.

This is why I feel that the "Adam" from FTP is the "Adam" from UPP. Not to mention his response to my inquiry into this person was a little comical.

I wonder why a poker site would have problems with some banks?!

Well, let me tell you, that UPP and FTP are NOT owned by the same people. UPP, GATORPAY, SOLIDDEBITCARD where all owned by Intabill who also used to do direct processing for PokerStars, Full Till and a bunch of other online casinos.


Considering most of these casinos are left holding a big fat debt because Intabill fell over back in May owing them millions.

Adam from UPP is not in any way Adam from FTP. Considering FTP is run out of Europe and Intabill out of Australia should be the first clue. FTP is still running and the owners of Intabill are scrambling and hiding from the $32mil they owe Poker Stars alone and shut down all business......

This is more of a travesty than the OP

^^^ Racist ban b/c of your user name.

I thought I would bump this thread because of an interesting knock I received on my door Thursday morning.

To make a long story short, I had a criminal investigator from the state AG office knock on my door questioning me about transactions I had received/authorized from several US/UK payment processors. He named several compnays I never heard of except one, UPP. Apparently there is some "on-going investigation" which I wasn't given any details about. He asked me several questions pertaining to my relationship with the processors, what business I had done with them and who my contacts were. Right at the start of the conversation he told me I wasn't in any trouble, just that he was following up on a computer list of transactions that was obtained from a bank which detailed transactions during a certain period of time that my name/address was on.

There is some more detailed info from this visit but I'm not going to post it because I don't think it is beneficial to the online community to have the info out there on the web. If anyone is interested you can PM me and I will provide further detail.

yeah, why pay 1700 you didnt owe? adam is a very common first name and your probably not telling us something, like you did have multple accounts

I did have multiple accounts and was allowed to have them for a long time. I never played on both at the same time. My primary was not used at all because it was locked. Can you read? Keep trolling.

And there isn't anything else to the story, it is what it is.

Oh and very common first name???

In both their emails their use of the english language was very similar. I even talked to both over the phone and they sounded like the same person to me. So that excuse doesn't work with me.

When a weird issue such as this comes up about Stars and is posted on 2+2, Pstars will have an employee explain the rationale to the masses and be somewhat transparent. With F/T they have no one posting here....
The fact is how many threads do we see on here complaining about being robbed by FT compared to Pstars? Probably 10-1 ratio. Obviously in all or some of the cases it's the player who did the scamming. But then why don't we hear too many posts about Pstars since they have more players and therefore more scammers. This makes me believe that most of these complaints are legitimate, and after hearing these horror stories I won't even consider playing on FT.

I will say that FTPSean did contact me following this issue via PM. He said he would contact support and attempt to resolve this. He got back to me in less than an hour and told me their decision was final. No explanation at all. The funny thing is that support can take weeks to solve disputes yet FTPSean can get an answer in less than an hour. Doesn't make sense IMO.

I've accepted that I got screwed but after my unexpected visitor yesterday I'm only more intrigued into FTP's business practices and the way they handle situations.

I stand corrected. FTPSean got back to me in 3 hours. Here is his response:

Hi AABBCCDD,

Support just contacted me, and they've been through your entire case again, including their correspondence with both you and UPP.

Their findings supported the final decision that was communicated to you in your latest email from Support. Please understand the decision to close an FTP account is never made lightly and accounts are only closed with good reason.

I'm sorry I couldn't help you out here.

Sean

You know I keep waiting for rake back from full tilt and I dont think I want it anymore

so do you mind answering why you paid 1700 dollars that you didn't owe?

Fulltilt better get their act together, else people will start flooding to AP & UB for rakeback

I really can't stand the stupid posts. Did you not read my explanation the first time I was asked that question?

Here it is for you anyway...

Because I wanted to continue playing on FTP. I enjoy their site and software. I also was up a significant amount over a few months so I figured I would just consider it as a bad few days on the tables thus putting the situation behind me. Little did I suspect it would turn out like this. If you can't understand that explanation than I don't know what to tell you but it is that simple.

I would have had no problem just moving to PStars but I hate their cash tables with the all in no showing of the cards till the showdown. I just play tourneys there. Not to mention I had a significant amount of money in my FTP account which I didn't want to walk away from because paying the $1700 was the cheaper way.

gives us your ftp screen names so we can confirm that 1,700 is a tiny small amount to you

Just curious how much your ftp bankroll was which was confiscated?