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Old 10-30-2014, 06:39 PM   #1
PokerStars Michael J
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Rationale Behind Recent PokerStars Changes

Hello Players,

In recent weeks, PokerStars has made several changes which have upset some players. We’ve heard these complaints and are genuinely listening to the feedback. No one likes higher costs and we appreciate that point of view.

In recent years, we have also heard many high-volume, professional poker players say that the games are tougher now and it’s harder to win than in the past. This is one of the reasons we’ve actually reduced rake previously, which helps the ROI of these players. But that’s not making the games any softer, which is what would really improve ROI.

Instead, we need to invest in new ways to improve the poker economy.

Over recent years, we have been developing ways to grow that we believe will attract new players and reactivate players already in our database. Such initiatives include new poker variants, expansion into other gaming verticals, and new marketing approaches. While we understand that not all players are satisfied with the short-term impact of these changes, the reality is they have the potential to increase poker liquidity.

However, initiatives to attract players require significant investments in areas of marketing, promotions and product innovation.

Additionally, in order to not only secure our continued place as an industry leader across the globe but also to grow ourselves and the game globally, we continue to lobby for the regulation of online poker and attempt to obtain licenses in many newly regulated, locally licensed jurisdictions. We support regulation because we believe it ensures game integrity, player protection, and increases the recognized legitimacy for the game itself. However, there are obviously significant upfront costs to these efforts as well as ongoing costs in the form of gaming license fees and duties.

The funding has to come from many places and it is perfectly reasonable that some of it comes from reducing certain costs, which was the rationale for some of the changes to our VIP program, stemming from a review we began early this year, as well as charging a margin on currency exchange fees. It is also the rationale for our changes to the rake.

If we can grow poker, everyone will benefit. Even our competitors will benefit, because in a rising tide, all ships rise.

Finally, it has to be said that our rake, our currency exchange rates and our VIP program are all more competitive than those of our major competitors.

Sincerely,

Michael Josem
PokerStars Communications Team

Last edited by PokerStars Michael J; 10-30-2014 at 06:48 PM. Reason: Clarification
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Old 10-30-2014, 06:47 PM   #2
Uhrenknecht
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Re: Rationale Behind Recent PokerStars Changes

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Finally, it has to be said that our rake, our currency exchange rates and our VIP program are all more competitive than those of our major competitors
Yeah but those competitors have such a fishy playerpool, that it makes up for it big time.
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Old 10-30-2014, 06:51 PM   #3
krmont22
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Re: Rationale Behind Recent PokerStars Changes

I think if it was all done in our best interest, the currency exchange margin would have been made in the same announcement with a target date instead of done immediately without warning slightly before the rake increase announcement.
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Old 10-30-2014, 07:00 PM   #4
Rudi D
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Re: Rationale Behind Recent PokerStars Changes

http://pokerfuse.com/features/specia...s-change-year/
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Old 10-30-2014, 07:02 PM   #5
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Re: Rationale Behind Recent PokerStars Changes

lol, this is such bull**** go on double the rake half the vip structure so its not worth grinding for sne/sn your sinking your own ship and i dont care what the **** you say that you are doing this for the growth of the game i mean thats being deluded and lying
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Old 10-30-2014, 07:03 PM   #6
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Re: Rationale Behind Recent PokerStars Changes

There isnt gonna be VIP program beyond 2015... Dont say its more competitive
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Old 10-30-2014, 07:03 PM   #7
SantaCruz
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Re: Rationale Behind Recent PokerStars Changes

It's not just about rake. Introducing a casino game as if it were a poker game isn't good for the Regs or the recreational players. It's not good for poker in general.

A typical Rec player plays the Spin n Gos thinking that maybe they're going to get lucky and hit the big prize. We all know that that's their motivation for flocking to those games. But truth be known, if a rec player plays 30 games a day, 365 days a year, on average it will take him about 25 years to win that big prize. In other words a young bachelor Recreational player, on average, will be a grandfather before winning that prize.

Using a game like that is well beneath the standards that PokerStars has set for itself in the past. Not only does it deceptively draw rec players to the game, it draws them away from other games and it burns through the money in their accounts at record speed.

Hoping that the trickle down effect of bringing in new rec players to play the Spin n Gos will not only make up the deficit created in the normal games but supplement the number of players in those games, I think, is nothing but wishful thinking. From where many of us sit, the Spin n Gos simply looks like a cash grab.
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Old 10-30-2014, 07:04 PM   #8
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Re: Rationale Behind Recent PokerStars Changes

http://pokerfuse.com/features/specia...s-change-year/ great link every1 should give this a read to show how scummy really amaya is.
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Old 10-30-2014, 07:06 PM   #9
ONLYRAISEAA
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Re: Rationale Behind Recent PokerStars Changes

yeah whatever, obv y'all have to come in with such statements to save your face. it's all too sudden, without informing and giving realistic timelines for your high volume grinders that have been loyal for years. The communication is poor, stars puts less effort in taking advice from the players and makes ridicoulus changes that destroy entire games

also +1 on what santa just posted about spin&gos. stupid jackpot bull****, nobody wants that (if they do, they just don't know better...)

Last edited by Mike Haven; 10-30-2014 at 07:23 PM.
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Old 10-30-2014, 07:09 PM   #10
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Re: Rationale Behind Recent PokerStars Changes

Stars have had the toughest games on the web for years and yet still had the most traffic including the most fish. It's not like those softer sites have been attracting all the fish.
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Old 10-30-2014, 07:09 PM   #11
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Re: Rationale Behind Recent PokerStars Changes

Quote:
Originally Posted by PokerStars Michael J View Post
Stuff about making the games better, by raising the rake.
There are a lot of sites I'm happy to pay more rake at, because of their player base. Pokerstars allows a ton of tables, allows scripters, and has a top heavy vip scheme. These are the reasons your site is the toughest poker site in the world. These 3 things are what do more harm to your poker economy than anything else, if you want to improve game quality you'd focus on those things. Instead you focus purely on increasing the rake and adding fees, which in turn harms the economy further, unless you piss off enough players and cause some sort of mass exodus, which isn't a solid business strategy. We're going to be pissed one way or the other, but the way you're doing it right now does not speak to the customers best interests.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PokerStars Michael J View Post
Finally, it has to be said that our rake, our currency exchange rates and our VIP program are all more competitive than those of our major competitors.
s
Sincerely,

Michael Josem
PokerStars Communications Team
Perhaps, but being the largest site means you can make significantly more than anyone else with smaller margins, it's why the same item is always going to be cheaper at walmart. They do more business, so they can sell items at a lower price to draw in more customers and still make more money than the other businesses due primarily to their larger customer base.

To sum it up, what you're doing is a money grab, you're just trying to get more money from the players and convince them it's in their best interest. There's ways to improve the economy of your site directly and address some player concerns, but you're not doing any of that.
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Old 10-30-2014, 07:11 PM   #12
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Re: Rationale Behind Recent PokerStars Changes

If you want to invest money to improve the poker economy why don't you take a little piece of thoses huges margins pokerstars is making ?

You rake the game already so much no wonder it's dying
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Old 10-30-2014, 07:11 PM   #13
puska_zg
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Re: Rationale Behind Recent PokerStars Changes

yep... 2m$/day you make right now is not enough for marketing
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Old 10-30-2014, 07:13 PM   #14
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Re: Rationale Behind Recent PokerStars Changes

well said and for the people who dont like why not try and get the same product somewhere else if you dont like it?
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Old 10-30-2014, 07:16 PM   #15
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Re: Rationale Behind Recent PokerStars Changes

What % of 1 $ from the increased rake will go to advertising ? 10% ? 5% ? Most will end up in your pocket, unless you show some evidence that every new $ raked will go to advertising on top of what you already use before
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Old 10-30-2014, 07:18 PM   #16
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Re: Rationale Behind Recent PokerStars Changes

I think PS is understimating 2p2 average IQ...
rly, there is a single chance that an user could believe what OP said
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Old 10-30-2014, 07:20 PM   #17
CocteauTwin
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Re: Rationale Behind Recent PokerStars Changes

You better have some really amazing ways of investing our deposits in making the game "softer" Getting rid of affiliates and a dozen countries should help with that.

Tho the softness idea kinda contradicts having one of the worlds toughest skill game players- Nadal- as your show pony.
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Old 10-30-2014, 07:22 PM   #18
Rudi D
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Re: Rationale Behind Recent PokerStars Changes

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Originally Posted by 4-Star General View Post
I think PS is understimating 2p2 average IQ...
Grossly underestimating.....
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Old 10-30-2014, 07:23 PM   #19
krmont22
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Re: Rationale Behind Recent PokerStars Changes

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Originally Posted by CocteauTwin View Post
You better have some really amazing ways of investing our deposits in making the game "softer" Getting rid of affiliates and a dozen countries should help with that.

Tho the softness idea kinda contradicts having one of the worlds toughest skill game players- Nadal- as your show pony.
They should clearly change Tennis to being only about best of 3 points with a random prizepool. I'm sure Nadal and the fans would love it.
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Old 10-30-2014, 07:27 PM   #20
CocteauTwin
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Re: Rationale Behind Recent PokerStars Changes

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They should clearly change Tennis to being only about best of 3 points with a random prizepool. I'm sure Nadal and the fans would love it.
Oh definitely...they could call it spin&whacks
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Old 10-30-2014, 07:35 PM   #21
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Re: Rationale Behind Recent PokerStars Changes

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Originally Posted by PokerStars Michael J View Post
Finally, it has to be said that our rake, our currency exchange rates and our VIP program are all more competitive than those of our major competitors.
If you repeat a lie often enough, people will believe it, and you will even come to believe it yourself.

EAD Amaya.
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Old 10-30-2014, 07:37 PM   #22
Aliquantum
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Re: Rationale Behind Recent PokerStars Changes

If you're going to take a huge dump on my face, please don't try to convince me it's chocolate. Thanks.
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Old 10-30-2014, 07:38 PM   #23
mflip
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Re: Rationale Behind Recent PokerStars Changes

So it's the players' responsibility to fund your growth? The growth of a company that was recently sold for over $4 billion.

I know you guys would have run these numbers internally and that you won't answer here but what % of your player pool goes from winning players to losing players after these rake changes without taking into account rakeback (which we have no idea what it will look like 2 months from now)? If someone were to graph your playerpool it would be fat in the middle right? A small number of big winners, a small number of big losers who continue to deposit, and then a large number of small winners/losers. By turning more of these small winners into small losers and small losers into bigger losers you are contracting that portion of your player base because a much larger number of these players will now quit or not redeposit when they realize they can't beat the games. And players should accept this because "hey, maybe Stars will use this extra money on promotion and fish will sometime in the future play poker" despite the at least somewhat significant chance of "hey, maybe Stars just puts this extra money in their new shareholders' pockets"
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Old 10-30-2014, 07:42 PM   #24
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Re: Rationale Behind Recent PokerStars Changes

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Originally Posted by krmont22 View Post
They should clearly change Tennis to being only about best of 3 points with a random prizepool. I'm sure Nadal and the fans would love it.
lmao
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Old 10-30-2014, 07:49 PM   #25
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Re: Rationale Behind Recent PokerStars Changes

I'm a free market guy and Pokerstars has the right to do anything legal and moral they want but it's extremely patronising to have a price raise passed off as 'only looking out for the customers!'.
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