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Old 04-07-2019, 10:13 PM   #1
100bb/100
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a question about RNG's

I have always understood that RNG's are fair, ive never blamed the software for bad beats or anything. So let me just start with that because this isnt one of those posts

im wondering if all RNG's are the same, or if some operate differently than others?

i guess the goal of any RNG is to create an even distribution of hands across a huge sample, pass the diehard test, etc.

but are different RNGs achieving this in different ways, so that the differences might express themselves in a distribution of hands when comparing one site to another?
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Old 04-07-2019, 10:40 PM   #2
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Re: a question about RNG's

They achieve it in different ways, but that shouldn't affect your overall distribution of cards. Random is random.
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Old 04-08-2019, 12:43 AM   #3
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Re: a question about RNG's

Quote:
Originally Posted by 100bb/100 View Post
i guess the goal of any RNG is to create an even distribution of hands across a huge sample
No, that isn't the goal of any RNG. Its purpose is to choose each individual card randomly, independently every time. An RNG creates one number at a time with no memory of or consideration of any prior selection.

The properties of the resulting normal distribution are purely emergent and the RNG has no knowledge of it or purpose to that effect.

Turning 52 random numbers into a virtual deck of cards for a game is handled by the game software, not by the RNG. The R&G just spits out random numbers from 0 to 51, nothing more.

Last edited by NewOldGuy; 04-08-2019 at 12:50 AM.
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Old 04-08-2019, 01:05 AM   #4
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Re: a question about RNG's

They are based on your mouse movements. So on some sites you should only move in a counterclockwise motion, while others it is best to move in a clockwise motion. On Stars and Party always move in a clockwise motion even if it slows you down.
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Old 04-08-2019, 03:14 AM   #5
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Re: a question about RNG's

Quote:
Originally Posted by 100bb/100 View Post
i guess the goal of any RNG is to create an even distribution of hands across a huge sample
Careful using the word 'even'...

...there's a big difference with an 'even' distribution and a random distribution.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...bution.svg.png
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Old 04-08-2019, 03:15 AM   #6
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Re: a question about RNG's

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Originally Posted by txdome View Post
They are based on your mouse movements. So on some sites you should only move in a counterclockwise motion, while others it is best to move in a clockwise motion. On Stars and Party always move in a clockwise motion even if it slows you down.
I don't know about Party, my pattern mapper says you should move the mouse only in straight lines
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Old 04-08-2019, 07:31 AM   #7
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Re: a question about RNG's

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They are based on your mouse movements
This is why players on mobile phones get the same cards over and over again. No mouse movements to use!
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Old 04-09-2019, 03:52 PM   #8
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Re: a question about RNG's

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Originally Posted by txdome View Post
They are based on your mouse movements. So on some sites you should only move in a counterclockwise motion, while others it is best to move in a clockwise motion. On Stars and Party always move in a clockwise motion even if it slows you down.
Yes, I bought a gamer mouse with high DPI for this
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Old 04-09-2019, 11:12 PM   #9
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Re: a question about RNG's

you guys are just kidding right? is there any truth to that mouse movement stuff!?

since this thread is about RNG's i would like to ask another question: bovada/igniton has not had their RNG audited for a couple years as far as i know, Is there any reason to believe their system has changed or any reason not to trust their RNG?
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Old 04-09-2019, 11:50 PM   #10
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Re: a question about RNG's

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Originally Posted by 100bb/100 View Post
you guys are just kidding right? is there any truth to that mouse movement stuff!?

since this thread is about RNG's i would like to ask another question: bovada/igniton has not had their RNG audited for a couple years as far as i know, Is there any reason to believe their system has changed or any reason not to trust their RNG?

Everyone posting here is pretty well established. For Bovada always wiggle the mouse from left to right twice while the hand is being dealt. They have a new update though, so I'm not sure if this trick still works.
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Old 04-10-2019, 05:04 AM   #11
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Re: a question about RNG's

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Originally Posted by 100bb/100 View Post
you guys are just kidding right? is there any truth to that mouse movement stuff!?
Partially, as it appears to apply to PokerStars.

Here's a summary, which is not completely precise, but is a reasonable introduction that's likely to be "good enough" for your needs:
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Old 04-11-2019, 01:43 AM   #12
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Re: a question about RNG's

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Originally Posted by 100bb/100 View Post
you guys are just kidding right? is there any truth to that mouse movement stuff!?
The answer is yes to both questions.

Because software RNGs are "pseudo random", many sites use outside sources, like mouse movements, to seed the RNG with a truly random source. Of course they aren't using a single person's mouse movements, so you're being leveled when people talk about being able to get cards you want with certain mouse movements.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 100bb/100 View Post
since this thread is about RNG's i would like to ask another question: bovada/igniton has not had their RNG audited for a couple years as far as i know, Is there any reason to believe their system has changed or any reason not to trust their RNG?
You started this thread by saying that "I have always understood that RNG's are fair, ive never blamed the software for bad beats or anything. So let me just start with that because this isnt one of those posts". That may be, but you appear to be almost there.

What do you know about companies that audit RNGs? If a site really wanted to rig things to take your money, couldn't they just find a company that would give them certification without the audit, or create their own fake audit company? Or get a real audit, and then change their RNG the next day?

You're worrying about the wrong things. Unless you have a really compelling reason to question a particular site, I wouldn't waste my time worrying about it.
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Old 04-11-2019, 04:34 AM   #13
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Re: a question about RNG's

Fixed video:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Josem View Post
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Old 04-12-2019, 01:15 AM   #14
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Re: a question about RNG's

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobo Fett View Post
The answer is yes to both questions.

Because software RNGs are "pseudo random", many sites use outside sources, like mouse movements, to seed the RNG with a truly random source. Of course they aren't using a single person's mouse movements, so you're being leveled when people talk about being able to get cards you want with certain mouse movements.


You started this thread by saying that "I have always understood that RNG's are fair, ive never blamed the software for bad beats or anything. So let me just start with that because this isnt one of those posts". That may be, but you appear to be almost there.

What do you know about companies that audit RNGs? If a site really wanted to rig things to take your money, couldn't they just find a company that would give them certification without the audit, or create their own fake audit company? Or get a real audit, and then change their RNG the next day?

You're worrying about the wrong things. Unless you have a really compelling reason to question a particular site, I wouldn't waste my time worrying about it.
If im going to invest hours of my life on some website I at least want to know the rng is legit. This is a equation worth asking, and no I’m not close to blaming the rng for anything.

What do I know about RNG auditing? nothing that’s why I’m asking this forum. I have no reason to doubt bovadas number gen
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Old 04-12-2019, 02:46 AM   #15
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Re: a question about RNG's

There isn't a single major site where the idea of the RNG not being legitimate is taken seriously by most 2+2ers, nor has there been, and certainly no credible evidence of it. There have been some smaller sites where a higher percentage of people seem to have suspicions, but again no solid evidence. And there isn't a single site, small or large, where you can't find people who will tell you it's rigged.

What you know about RNG auditing is what almost everyone (including me) knows - very little. I've always thought it makes sense to put much more stock in the results at the tables than in RNG certification and audits. Not that it hurts to ask questions and do research, of course.
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