Why change a good functioning rakeback system?

Well weighting based on there being a lot more chrome, bronze, gold players seems fair enough. It really doesn't matter though as it is perfectly clear from Stars climbdown and flagging up differentiated rake based on the 50% POCT split coming that they don't believe the VIP change was the full hit.

Scrapping UK players having to pay rake on every rebuy was a huge change of heart. That was being driven by the tax, even after the VIP changes and the change of heart was based on player hostility but also based upon a longer term differentiated rake solution. They accepted that it was not right to hit rebuy players to cover others, the targetted group was too small and too likely to lead to players just shifting to other games.

Now nearly 9 months later things may have moved on but the margin erosion via tax they have had is still real. Figures using assumptions of SNEs taking big hits by not adapting their behaviour to the new sceme don't alter that basic reality - Stars say and I estimate (on reasonable assumptions) that they are still well short of dumping 50% of the cost of POCT on UK players.

Now Stars could be lieing, I could be wrong, it may be that like with Denmark to date Stars eat more than the 50% but what are the odds? Maybe Stars have made other cost cuts to maintain margins and keep the debt payments and net revenues look fine to the shareholders, and more crucially the bondholders. It might be that their disposals letting them reschedule/reduce the bond helps but long term a business where the business model actively incentivises individual countries to up taxes knowing that foreigners pay it has a slight problem.

Well who does it work for?

The change is to make the VIP programe more visible/important to lower volume players. You know what you'd want if you were planning to shift it to reward recs more and regs less. Without the "visualisation" such a shift would be irrelevant to the lower volume players anyway.

Today regs behaviour is altered by the scheme - it incentivises volume and disincentivises playing on other sites for some of the time. For rec players? I doubt it has any real visibility never mind any ability to shift behaviour partly as the rewards at low levels of volume are just pitiful/meaningless and partly because they don't even see it, or any value in it today.

It works for high volume regs and it used to work for Stars when building volume was key but now with recruiting new casual players the key issue for poker, the firm, shareholders it is already bust.

Can anyone aware me how much % Rakeback we will get as previous suppernova and SNE in 2016?

No-one knows yet, look for an announcement 31st Dec.

if the figures given are correct in theory someone could get more rake back if they scheduled with discipline however the casuals would suffer a lot, also undisciplined regs would to.

However I have a feeling the vip changes when announced will be brutal

Despite having time to make an amusing Brian Hastings joke, the news report is very wrong in it's numbers.

The size of steps are clearly listed in a PDF linked in the original webpage Stars posted.

A Goldstar, the step size is 250 VPP, the most they can lose if they end a month at the worst possible moment is 249 FPP (given their 2x modifier), or $4. $48 on the year if they get it as badly timed as possible, not quite the $60 per month in losses the article claims.

They forward the costs for the so called Licensing Authorities and taxes

this article is just awful , they are pulling numbers out of nowhere



edit: just saw daves response a few posts up
They should take that article down before more people read the misinformation...

I agree... they didn't understand that players lose by step, not by level.


I think that I explained what PS thought about the steps in my earlier posts about it here, they didn't even read that too.

For what I saw, I don't think that it would have a great impact.

One more time, PS FAILED to communicate.

too much WOW, much HYPE, such NEGATIVE...

One moar time this is a good change for supernova+ players. Log in to teh stars.uk via vpn, read everything, download teh pdf and calm teh **** down. Im not a big fan of wat stars did over teh years, but for this year moast of wat theyve done was v good and spot on (speaking of megabonus, ronaldo + neymar and now this)

It should be in all our interest that casual players

a) play moar
And
b) deposit moar often

And this change will make damn sure they do

There has been no change announced in terms of number so there's no reason to get excited or upset. If the new appearance makes more players deposit then that's a good thing for everyone and not just SN's.

the calm b4 the storm, we wont know the full extent until they announce the changes for the global rollout next year. im expecting some major changes since they have been hinting at it for a long time now

from the pdf thing i saw earlier i worked out that if a player was strictly disciplined they would be 2% better off.

I doubt most players would be so and I think if your a normal player the times you benefit from that 2% will not compensate you for the times when you lose 50% of a level.

I also can see a significant reduction coming maybe in ffps or in stellar rewards.

The 2% are only for this year

I personally don't have an issue with this new system and I'm sure other Supernovas+ won't either. The main change is for VIP levels that are under SN which should be a net positive for traffic if it makes recs play that little bit extra to reach milestones.

The VIP Steps looks more engaging and 'gamey', it actually reminds of Zynga and I would think that was what the designers were going for.

The big ? is the 2016 VIP changes. How much more will they cut rakeback? Now that Stars is on the stockmarket, their shareholders undoubtedly want better returns. I just hope they don't shoot themselves in the foot and reduce it to the point that volume players quit and that in turn will lower their revenues and profitability.

thats the thing though, its all very well saying cut back benefits to save more money, I mean in theory if you cut them back to Zero and upped the rake then you would make 10s to 100s millions more.

but ultimately you would not because all the regs would quit. and so sites can say good riddance to the regs but if the regs are not registering to the games then the casuals aren't going to want to wait around for the games and the games will die.

they can constantly probe to find out what they can get away with but the problem with this, is that regs will just quit and not come back. in time more regs might rise up to take there place but before that happens they hit again with a change before reversing again.

constantly commiting to diminishing player base until the site is ultimately dead.

Cliffs:

This was one of the main reasons for the vip program in the first place but it was done in a situation of real competition. Stars now risks becoming a victim of it's own success but it's very hard to persuade a company to worry hugely about non-existent competition just because they might create the conditions where a serious competitor is more likely to arrive. The old management handled it pretty well but now we wait more in hope than expectation.

So in reading some of the above, this is a bad change for micro players who just grind when they can and not to reach targets?

To Asjbaaaf, Dave, Caquitows and everybody else who read the PokerNewsReport article,

You were spot on with the errors that were originally published (mistaking the levels for the steps). As the author of the offending piece, I can only put my hands up in shame.

The errors have now been corrected and thanks for your input on this.

DC

Thank YOU

Now we are just waiting for one PS Rep to talk about the 50% rake drop in the middle of the step at the end of the month...

It's not about the reward system and a deeper gamification of the levels, but it's a saving maneuouver through hard times we are facing.

In general yes. If recreationals at your level will increase volume/deposits it will overall have a positive effect for u though

When a SN completes level 1 with 5 vpps, will they get 5 fpps or 17.5?

the thing is though if someone is disciplined they just put in that extra effort to complete the next step or stop if at end of month and they have just hit the next step.

ultimately at face value assuming no further changes to rake or the vip program this really is not a big deal, and does not change much either way anyway.

However, as I have already said and many others I fear drastic changes coming the games I play I have a 1% win rate post rake in. ignoring rake back etc.

its been hard to achieve that win rate and few have that win rate for my games.

Up the rake or reduce the vip rewards and my games are not profitable to play anymore. the changes stars made despite them reversing the changes permanently killed my games. there's still money to be had but it has never fully recovered to where it was.

In theory if left alone without changes eventually people will step up and fill those places there was money there before the rake is still the same tne vip program not hardly changed good money to make if only people return.

it is building we can already see some of the regs moving up and it moving towards where it once was.

but of course if they bring out brutal changes again, then we lose the regs we gained this year, and dont get me wrong whilst I would prefer only playing casuals, I would rather get 20 tables at once all with 3 other regs on, then 4-5 with only randoms.

I have been told the Canadians negotiate to negotiate, from people in the business world, well I dont want to get culturalist (note i said Culturalist not racist) but Amaya do seem to be adhering to this sterio type, and people just quit and dont come back.

you can't keep probing for what changes you can get away with, and reversing if it does not work out you lose the player base each time.

and its hard to keep the economy going as losing players shortens the player base each time, and a smaller base attracts less players in turn.

Since AMaya have taken over I think I've decided to leave pokerstars 3 times.

This has to be the straw to break the camels back, surely.

But how much less fpps is it really?

If the level is broke into 20, it can't have THAT much effect,

A little part of me wants motivated, but its more liekly to just switch me up. This game shouldn't' feel like a damnn chore. AMaya is like a nagging boss or something.