So this story all began a year ago when I tried to play a tournament.

At that time, I wanted to be a cash game player only, so I had a super brilliant idea which was to ban myself from playing tournaments.

But obviously I forgot to remove the ban.

So I tried to play the sunday storm, at that time it was a "big" event. I usually don't play tournaments but for a tournament this big I wanted to give a try.

Then I saw that I banned myself. And obviously lifting the ban would take like a week.

So I made another account and I registered it under the same name. Then, I registered in the tournament.

5 minutes later, I was banned and my deposit of 150$ if I remember correctly was gone.

So I asked for a refund at pokerstars, and here's what they answered me:



So they asked me for document verifications when I asked them to withdraw the funds on the same credit card I used to deposit. Then they tell me that they "can't" because of Mastercard.

But then I contacted a friend of mine which is a lawyer. And he told me that this is completely false and what they're doing is completely ILLEGAL.

IF YOU ASK FOR A REFUND ON THE SAME CARD YOU USED TO DEPOSIT, THEY ARE OBLIGATED TO REFUND THE MONEY. EVEN IF IT DOESN'T FOLLOW WITH THEIR TERMS OF SERVICE IT IS ILLEGAL TO BLOCK THE FUNDS.

So then I tell them that and guess what they answer me?



So they finally agree that they just lied in front of me in order to get my personal informations.

And they still refused to give my funds back on the same credit card.

So, because of this, I contacted my credit card holder, I submitted tons of documents and I won the case. If I remember correctly, it was declared as a illegal transaction.

The point is, they are not allowed to ask for document verifications if you are asking to withdraw on the same card you used to deposit.

Now I thought the story was over.

Oh god I was wrong.

So I continued to play on my first account (anyways the second account was banned) and I played on cash games for like over a year.

I used a VISA credit card to deposit when I first started to play in 2014 and it always was the same card I used for withdrawals.

I withdrawed one time in 2018 for a amount of 600$ USD if I remember correctly. Everything went fine.

But then my credit card expired, so they removed it. But then I wasn't allowed to add another credit card, either for deposit or withdrawing?

So finally I decided to withdraw using my bank account. I want to mention that my bank account informations is EXACTLY the same as my pokerstars account informations.

Then they suddenly ask me to provide document verifications when my bank account informations has the same information as my pokerstars account informations ???? But also they tell me that because I was linked to the second account, that I had to refund the 107$ USD (it was the amount of the tournament I paid).

Are you ****ing kidding me? I played for 5 minutes in the tournament. I should never pay for the tournament because I did not play for it, they BLOCKED me from playing!

Now you could say "Yo man it's y0ur fault yo it's against their Terms Of Services y0 what did you expect y0"

I am a programmer and if there's one thing I know, it's how softwares works. If they detected me that I had a second account after 5 minutes of playing in the tournament, that means that they already detected me at the first time I logged in (before I even registered for the tournament). There's no such thing as "time" in softwares, if you get detected, you were already detected when you first logged in, not after 5 minutes or 15 minutes, unless there was a manual ban which honestly, I doubt so, because they can detect everything automatically.

That means that their system waited until I registered one tournament to ban me from playing.

Normally I don't care for such a small amount of money, but just because Pokerstars is lying every single time in order to get your personal informations and what they're doing is completely immoral, I'm going to fight this.

So I explained to them the whole story in the hope that they will understand and atleast lift the 107$ USD that I supposely "owe" them. But then they answer me this ????????



They are asking documents for the credit card I used to deposit on my SECOND account. What the hell does this have to do with the account I'm trying to withdraw on? They're not allowed, once again, to do that

Now let me tell you that at that point I was super pissed off. Not only did I took the time to explain the whole ****ing story to them, I'm getting an automated answer by "Davide" (10/10 for trying atleast). Do you guys realise that in the first place when they asked me for document verifications (on the second account that I got banned, in the first emails) I wasn't even gonna get a refund anyways even if I did provided them??? Wow lol.

So I answered them this:



Then they answered me this



So at this point I'm really pissed off.

I'm going at their offices (which is very close to me) with a lawyer. If we cannot resolve this in real life then I'm going to proceed legal procedures. I don't give a **** if it's a ridiculous amount of money, the time they'll waste on this case will cost them way more money than 107$ USD. We both lose in this.

Now the reason why I'm posting this thread, is not because I'm trying to get "approval" from the community or something like that.

No, it's because if anything similar happened to you guys, like for instance the document verifications thing, or anything similar to my case, please send me a private message of what happened (or you can even tell it here). Even if it was for only document verifications, what they're doing is ILLEGAL.

I'm so mad at them that I'm going to do legal procedures for every single time they did illegal actions.

I want to mention that I paid over 5k$ USD in rake since 2014 and they're arguing for 107$ USD case. ****ing greedy bastards.

If you're with me, or even against me, please atleast share this story on Twitter (keyword #enoughpokerstars )

https://twitter.com/jongcrypto/statu...11025989660673

I can't believe they didn't get sued yet for what they're doing.

If nobody wants to fight them, then I AM gonna do it.

Got this far before loling.

I dont think you have the balls to take your attorney to the Pokerstar offices. No need to respond, just prove me wrong by taking a picture of the two of you at the Isle in your next posting.

The only reason why I'm bringing a lawyer is because if they start to argue with me that it's legal what they're doing then I'll have an expert that can argue with them.

But I totally understand why you guys can laugh at me or even be skeptical

"How to do everything wrong, a book by Jonathan"

Because obviously I should send my private informations when it's not even necessary

Because obviously I should pay for the 107$ USD when they already knew that I had two accounts when I first logged in

Because obviously what they're doing is completely moral and legal

But yeah, I'm doing everything wrong, except that I still got my refund on the account I got banned (because guess what? The transaction was declared illegal).

And I'm 100% sure I'm also gonna get my money on my pokerstars account that is currently not banned.

But yeah, go ahead and tell me I'm wrong. Atleast I'm getting my money back and they're not getting a single piece of my private information.

You’re an idiot, but I’m actually outside PS offices. Want a pint while you wait for Monday?

Pokerstars reaction to you and your lawyer:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TmRPVTbzRzk

That would make sense over a huge case. But this case is only for 107$ USD. One hour of worktime for one lawyer cost that. It's not really worth it for them to fight for this.

No pint then?

The moment you opened a second account you forfeited all rights to anything on their site including any funds you ever deposited before or after. You agreed to this contract when you first joined.

Your lawyer is just taking some easy fees and knows they owe you nothing, but figures if you make enough noise maybe they'll just pay you a little to go away. Worth a shot for him, he gets paid either way.

Atleast this is the first answer I get in this thread that makes sense. So thank you for writing a decent answer.

About the contract, this is a huge misconception that many people have. It's not because it's written in a contract and I have agreed to it, and then I break it that "it's the end for me".

Because if the contract does not respect by itself the law, then the contract is invalid. What does tell you that they have the rights to keep my money if I do multi-accounting? (and what I mean by that is that I only play one account at a time, just one account for tournament and one account for cash game)? It is MY money afterall. It's not like I'm botting, so they can't say "You are causing negative experiences towards other players" or something like that.

And obviously Pokerstars cannot respect all laws in all country, so they have to make general guidelines. But if in my juridiction it is illegal, then they have to pay back my money.

And that's what they did for my second account. Even if I broke their contract, the money is still mine. In fact, like I said, the transaction was declared illegal and I got my money back.

Now I'm gonna get it back, for the same reason. There's a whole balance of my account. I decided to withdraw all of it. They're refusing. But this money is mine, not theirs.

And the funny thing is, my main account is still not banned. They're still letting me play on it, so basically because I can still play on it I haven't broke their "contract". So again, another reason that I should get my whole balance back.

About the lawyer, he's my friend.

Usually in these threads the OPs are encouraged to post all the information and email conversations, as they are tend to be left out because revealing them would make the OP look quite a bit more at fault for the mess. After reading this train wreck, I am starting to think the other newbie posters who post the xxx stole my money threads are doing the right thing by not including all the details...

Good luck with that "so what if I am multi-accounting, its my money after all" defense you and your friend plan to use, but if somehow your talented friend falls short, you can always contact this firm to represent you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HX0fIi3H-es

All the best.

Is the sunday storm a 150 bi these days?

It's in there.

It still doesn't mean that it is legal.

If in a contract they say that if you do multi accounting, then they have the rights to kill you, does it mean that they are allowed to do it?

Obviously this is a extreme example but you get my point.

And anyways if that clause in their contract was legal, I would have never got my money back on the second account that got banned. But obviously it is illegal from where I live since I got my money back.

makes sense, made another account hired a lawyer for 150 you lost.

8000 word essay for $107.00? You need some hobbies, bruh.

OP if you go there and bring a lawyer and record it all AND win... I’ll also refund you the $107

That would be a crime. You forfeiting your money by mutual agreement, is clearly not. And you did agree to it when you signed up.

LOL same here !

You're not the first making a thread like that, but all the people who made it before you were simply not aware what "is" PokerStars.
They're not based in a "normal" country, you won't be able to reach them with your usual lawyer like you could if you wanted to sue the local supermarket for example.
Even if you eventually reach them via a legal way, their T&Cs are written by an army of lawyers who know them point by point and can argue around them for hours, there's no way they let a loophole in them allowing anyone to sue them for what you describe.

In one case or the other, you simply won't win, and not even because you're too small to attack them, but because you're fundamentally wrong at the beginning and they're totally in their rights.

maybe you could swap action with another player who has an issue with stars to bring down the cost of your legal fees to get that 107 dolla back

Yo man it's y0ur fault yo it's against their Terms Of Services y0 what did you expect y0.

Is this for real?

You broke their rules by opening 2 accounts in your name. That alone means this is a lost case, it's up to Pokerstars alone if they want to help you just to be nice, but the way you handled the case so far you should be more worried they close your account for good.