The only change they should make regarding ratholing is, if you leave a zoom table above 100bb you cannot rejoin with less than 100bb for 30 minutes.

If someone leaves a zoom table above 100bb they should be allowed to rejoin instantly with 100bb. Not everyone is comfortable playing really deep and that shouldn't be forced on players, my solution is strictly aimed at the 50bb short stackers who rathole whenever they win a pot.

So 100bb ratholing is ok for you because you know how to play against them. But you, and many other regs don't know how to adapt to 50bb stacks so you want to prohibit that. Sounds like you regs are the fish. Those shortstackers make huge mistakes and you want them away...

Cross posted from MTTc:

So my basic idea is have a new Turbo Takedown awarding VPPs instead of real US$ in the light of its unlikely return in the older format.

We all loved the TT and I am sure Stars have its reasons for cancelling it, however, it is a great incentive for micro grinders to get required 3k or previous 5k FPPs and was a nice bonus for most of us.

My problem is, I could not come up with with buy-in amount and its translation into VPP awarding scheme (i.e standard 10-15ish % payouts or more top heavier). The best thing about this type of tournament for Stars is, it takes FPPs as buy-in instead and awards nothing that can be immediately translated to cash (The payout would come in the long run by paying rake, which further benefits the Stars, and receiving higher RB/milestones). The idea came from a promotion Stars runs years ago, awarding one (or more cannot recall?) SNs, the SNE status and bronze/silver/gold star player SN status. But imagine a monthly tournament awarding emmm I dont know 500k or 1mil VPPs for first, it should be great turnout. And this is not have to a monthly thing, a whole new line can be created if there is a sound and widely accepted translation scheme between FPPs (or even $)to VPPs.

I am not sure whether this is even doable or Stars would ever want to do it, but I am putting this out there and someone from Stars maybe Bryan is kind enough to post a reply, it will be great. Please share your comments / flame away, but I think this kind of tournament can only benefit Stars and many players would want to get VPPs

Your assessment is inaccurate.

The reps pushed for a lot of things. And different reps pushed for different things.

It's easy to say something such as, "Okay, 6x VPP for all". Perhaps even fairly easy to implement. But there are (or at least may be) multi-million dollar ramifications of such a decision. Nobody, Isai least of all, is going to walk out of a meeting and say, "6x VPP seems like a cool idea; call up the software guys and tell them to do that."

I know that Steve and his team are looking at the whole VPP multiplier thing; I don't know when they'll arrive at conclusions. And then those conclusions will turn into recommendations that go to Isai and other senior managers.

As regards things that are being planned and implemented that the reps couldn't talk about - the reps and I have the same reasons for not being able to talk about them.

I'm sure it's frustrating to wait while these issues get reviewed. But please understand that PokerStars is a big - huge - ship; there is little good that can come from trying to turn her too quickly. And there are good reasons for not sharing everything that we're working on.

We are committed to continuing a meaningful and productive conversation with our player community, but we have to do that as part of the overall management of our business.

Regards, Lee

a secret discussion with x people, who are not allowed to communicate is not even close to a "meaningful and productive conversation with our player community".

its the complete opposite with the nice option of pretending to have it.

Lee,

While things are being "looked at" and "recommended" and then reviewed and then ironed-out wrt implementation and all that, a process that is likely going to take months in my uneducated opinion, are PokerStars going to implement some promotions/kickbacks to give back some of what is "raped" from certain games? (happy hours type stuff come to mind, RELOAD BONUSES, etc)

I mean everyone agrees LHE is being rake-raped, PLO is being rake-raped and CAP is also being rake-raped. And these issues are not new;they've been around for a bit. It's nice and all to hear that solutions are begin considered by PS, but while solutions are being considered, PS is getting more and more money from these games where, as the reps have stated, an alarming amount of players are losing before rakeback.

Surely, Stars will want to help out the players of these games, given how they care about the community and the health of the games, right? Surely they acknowledge that while perhaps they cannot take immediate steps wrt to say the VPP system, the multiplier or what have you, there are things they can do now, in the short term, to mitigate the disastrous effect rake has on some games.

At least, that's what I would hope.

Lee, there was a suggestion made at the recent meeting by Alex asking for FPP cash bonus rewards to be lowered significantly as well as the FPP cost.

He suggested something like:

	Value	FPP	FPP/V	True Value	$L/TV
Bronze	$10	700	70	11.2	10.71%
Silver	$25	1700	68	27.2	8.09%
Gold	$100	6600	66	105.6	5.30%
Plat	$200	12900	64.5	206.4	3.10%
Nova	$500	31250	62.5	500	0.00%

The idea being micro/small stake players would be able to save up enough points to purchase a decent bonus relative to the stakes they play, and likely take the bonus money to the tables.

I heard that most players who can't easily save up 250K points are spending FPP on items in the store, or cash players are using FPP on satellites in an attempt to get value.

Don't you think it would be useful if a 10nl Platinum player for example could buy a $200 bonus once a month? It would really help players through downswings or give them extra cash to take a shot at the next higher limit. Smaller but more frequent rewards is much more beneficial than infrequent large rewards.

I'm just curious if Stars is considering this idea, or if not what are the primary objections?

So, has Lee brought as anything but words for the last 3-4 months? He could be the biggest troll of 2p2 for all i know.

Im so sick of reading about your decisions, trying to listen to the players etc etc, while jack **** is happening.

FFs Lee i think we all understand that there are going to be multi million dollar ramifications. All that i have read about the player meetings, and all this round table talks are that things are going to be looked at, and changes might happen

If pokerstars has, in your words, I would have thought the rake issue would have been solved before now.

Furthermore, a company that flat out lies in there terms and conditions does not employ "silly smart" people in my honest opinion.

@ Paperwalls: replace Lee with Stars and it's A+

Have you already forgotten about January's Happy Hours? Give them a break they're busy counting money since the switch to WC.

I think in this uncertain climate post BF we have absolutely no idea what it takes to run a massive online poker site, so let's chill the **** out.

oh dear

yes, exactly. lets chill out

its not like pokerstars hasn't done anything to counter the swindling player pool or has even increased the rake. i mean, shut up, pokerstars is doing anything it can for the regs.

are you guys crazy?

Like that is OUR fault that BF happened. You guys seem to forget that we are the customers. Without us there is no pokerstars. Without pokerstars, we would still have poker. Got it? Ok good.

The issue is that there are games being offered that are unbeatable by ANY players. And many of the games offered are not beaten by even 1/3rd of the players. This is absurd and unfair and goes against everything poker stands for (a game of skill).

So you can be fan boys all you want. But it doesn't change the fact that pokerstars and online poker in general is becoming less of a game of skill every day. And it is largely because of the rake.

you are aware that my posting was 100% sarcasm?

We are getting past the ADAPT or DIE phase of the game. People that used to win 100k+ a year over 1million hands are now break even or losing. Who is winning? Stars is. Stars is winning almost alone. Sure people are still winning, especially after rakeback.

So we are turning online poker into not a game of skill, but a game of who can get the most money back from the house after it was taken from us? UM OK.

Soon enough some smart business with a lot of capital can/should come out with solid software and advertising, charging a REASONABLE rake. And they will steal the market. Hopefully its FTP2

And I am a 3x going for 4x supernova elite that has played solely on stars for around 10 years. And I hope everyday that a competitor comes out and steals their show. Because they just don't get it anymore. Too much greed.

lol nope. Sarcasm is tough to read on the interwebz sometimes

I often wonder why this has not happened yet, a really good site with a reasonable rake would clean up.

Obviously stars is going to carry on as it is, until it has some serious competition.

i couldn't agree more. i am really hoping for FTP2, or latest if/when the US market reopens that some movement gets into this market.

currently stars basically has a monopoly and absolutely abuses this. instead of also taking a cut like every pro did after BF, they stuffed their pockets even more.

it really is a shame that there is no alternative and all other sites are complete idiots. there is only one way to compete with stars (and to move regs to them, because they are the ones generating the rake). consolidate and get more tables/traffic, but they are dividing even more.

well it would take a lot of time.

But the main issue with everyone that comes out. Is that their software is just horrific. The only site with reasonable software (FTP) did just fine against stars. They didn't overtake them, but they might have eventually. And I still think their software sucked but it was enough to start stealing customers from stars.

Dear pokerstars , The current problem with Zoom are the fullring games for 1-2 and 2-5 often not running. It require 9 players at the same time to be able to start the game which is hard to get at these stakes.

An easy fix for this which would make it 10 times easier for the table to actually start , is to be able to play shorthanded no matter how many players are in the pool. So if there is 3 players waiting to start a table , those 3 should be able to play against each other and then new people will add up slowly.

Maybe because it's really REALLY expensive?

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/61...onths-1197107/

this really needs to be addressed by stars