again no rakechange for sng

useless roundtable as always,

Lee, why is Pokerstars's winrate about 100 bb/100?
Don't you think it's too high?

When will Zoom SNG/MTTs be starting???????

@ Lee Jones/ PS staff, are you ever going to address the questions in this thread?

At the beginning of 2012, PS promised much better communication with the players/community. Is this it? Posting "roundtable" threads then ignoring 99% of questions asked?

Are the Zoom tournaments just going to be large field MTTs or will there be SNGs too?

Offcourse they don't respond, why would they.

I mean, who are you?

You are just some regular who has problably played millions of hands on Pokerstars for a long time. You are just some guy who paid thousands of dollar of rake.

And now you have the nerve to ask that you want to play 100bb poker? Because every day more and more Russian shortstacking ratholers come in and you repeatedly have to quit your sessions? Because you are not even playing at certain days anymore because you know it is useless? Because it is becoming less and less fun to play poker because of this?

How dare you, really.
And not only that, now you become irritated and you complain to Pokerstars they don't respond and don't take it seriously? Because they say they know about the problem and have meetings, yet never came up with any solutions? Because there are mulitple threads with people giving input and come up with ideas but are completely ignored? Because of a roundtable thread, a thread for players to communicate with Pokerstars, when half of the posters ask about this subject but Pokerstars decides to go into hybernation?

You really have no shame do you? Keep bugging them with these kind of questions. Just because you are afraid the games will become worse thus making it impossible for you to make your goals or sucking the enjoyment out of poker even though you think there are solutions that might work, doesn't give you the right to have this kind of attitude.

Wanting to play 100bb poker. tsss. Offcourse you don't get a response. They have much bigger things to worry about. Like open face chinese poker for example.

Lee why are players allowed to grim me 10 zillion times a day without your site even giving a ****?

This reminds me so much about LHE discussion.
From the start of this year we were talking about how to revive LHE poker at Stars. We gave ideas, solutions, promos and whatnot and then... out of nowhere... PokerStars rep shows up and posts in High Stakes Poker subforum with some idea to get rid of shortstacking and rathollers at LHE.

Just for the record. That was probably the only thing we've never ever talked about because it's not really a problem with LHE. We then LOLed a bit, explained to him where the real problem is, appointed him to proper threads on the forums and... POOF. He was gone. PokerStars was gone. Never heard of them after that.


That's why I offer myself to go to the next meeting. I will sign their NDA, I will troll a bit at the meetings, won't achieve anything really but I'll have really nice trip.

What about Negreano's High Stakes FL Hu match?

Seriously though if they can make the blind structures consistant among levels and do something about grimers/HU bumhunters camping on 6 max and FR tables then I'd call it an improvement.

As it's been said many times over, PLO rake is criminal, plz lower it.

If the rake at PLO25 is too high to make money from then all you'll get are recreational players but we all know that you want recreational players as well as players trying to make money. That's not gonna happen if the rake makes the games unbeatable.

I guess PokerStars doesn't like spending money on PR people. Or maybe they think dissapearing and flat out ignoring everyone is a superior PR tactic. Hooray for sticking your heads in the sand.

Thanks for the lack of replies ITT Lee, Steve and the rest of the PS site reps. At the onset of 2012 you promised the community better communication and you've definitely ended 2012 by showing exactly how much of that promise you intended to keep.

awesome roundtable

Yup. So so addicting!

I'm a bit nervous about posting this, I know that weird ideas are often quickly shot down on 2+2, especially from relative strangers, but I've had the idea kicking around my head for a while and cant really see any show-stopping negatives, so I guess I'm counting on the 2+2 community to point out the error of my ways for me!

Considered by myself specific to HU Cash Games for the moment (but hey, without thinking it through, maybe it could even have similar benefits in other formats too), how about Heads Up STTs without escalating blinds? I intend this mainly as a solution to bumhunting/grimming/shortstacking, so the idea is that the lobby doesn't show an opponent alias, and you only see this after you have committed to play. In the normal STT way, the game continues until one player has all the chips/cash.

Advantages/disadvantages/issues/alternatives I can think of in relation to this:

ISSUE - Rake - how would this be charged? If as per standard STTs, I presume Stars would have an issue, so it would presumably need to rake tournament chips in the standard way and to deduct this from the prize pool? Of course, if Stars could live with it, standard STT rake method, even at a higher rate, would presumably be preferable for the player (I HATE it so much when I play HU and at the end of the session, BOTH players are showing a loss! STT style rake will remove the chance of that happening, making it less unattractive to play shortstackers or regulars)

Advantage -Starting Stack - Players could play against opponents, with pre defined depth of stacks. A different STT could be in the lobby for each starting stack. For example, there could be a 40xBB and a 100xBB starting stack STT. You always know what you are entering. Players play against players who want to play the same game as them.

Advantage - Lobby - Just 1 of each STT need be listed in the lobby as registering, instead of the many many games of each type currently listed as registering

Advantage - Liquidity - It should be far easier to get a game

Advantage (or Disadvantage, depending on your POV) - Meritocratic - You need to be a winning player at each level to be a winning player! Rather than bumhunting your way to the profit.

Disadvantage - Table Selection - Opportunities to select your table/opponent are removed

Disadvantage - Reloading - Unlike normal cash games, there's no opportunity to reload your stack, or to buy in again or to rematch against an opponent (Whilst rebuys or rematches could be allowed, I think this maybe kind of defeats the object of the format)

Alternative - Reloading - Maybe there could be tables with X compulsory rebuys, where you commit to playing against an opponent for X stacks (as do they!), BEFORE you know who that opponent is. This could work be auto topping up your stack to keep you at a minimum of 100 x BB (or whateverStarting stack game you choose to play) until your STT runs out of funds to rebuy.

Alternative - Time or Hand Limits - Maybe STTs could be time limited. Or better restricted to X Hands, at which time the prize pool is split proportionately according to chip stacks. Time limits could be abused by playing slowly against regs and fast against non regs, hence my preference for Hand Limits.

Advantage - Blind stealing/Grimming - Players cannot play odd blinds, as they commit when entering the STT to play to conclusion

Alternative - Multitable - Have multitable STTs, where you play x tables against the same opponent. You define the number of tables BEFORE you know who your opponent might be.

A number of sites have (had?) these. A big problem is that they ended up with people angling them by timing all the way down on every single decision to either force their opponent to spend hours in a single SNG or to start shoving every hand to get it over with.

This is yet another issue with Steve's suggestion of getting rid of table selection. Most people found the notion terrible in and of itself but he also gave 0 detailed information on exactly how it accomplishes what are supposed to be it's positives on top of that. Without proper vetting it's entirely possible, if not likely, that this medicine could be much worse than the disease by opening itself up to new and even worse forms of angling then we currently face.

That's one of the many problems we've had with Stars since they've decided to start more or less ignoring the public community at large and doing everything privately. The lack of vetting of ideas has led to to some really terrible first-party ideas on their part. This latest 'solution' follows well in the footsteps of their previous attempt at solving ratholing by decreasing the max buyin available on regular tables.

POKERSTARS: Time to treat PLO and NLHE as different games!

Hi folks -
First, my apologies for being away - I'm back now.

While we definitely want to address (and are addressing) the various concerns you have, we don't want every single communication channel between us and the players to get absorbed by the same issues. That doesn't serve you well (it fragments the discussion) and it doesn't serve our larger player community well either (their questions and concerns get lost in the mix).

Very specifically, PokerStars Steve has made a long and detailed post on the shortstacking/ratholing issue here. I encourage you to read it (and the follow-ups); there's a lot there.

And on the issue of PLO rake, the poster linked to his own thread, which includes a lengthy post from Steve.

Again, I'm here to answer questions and discuss ideas, but when there is a specific sub-forum or thread devoted to the topic of interest, please let's keep it concentrated there.

Happy New Year to everybody and I'll be sure not to let much time past between posts.

Regards, Lee

How was your trip to Mars?

With all due respect Lee, the reason every single communication channel between Pokerstars and the players are getting absorbed by the same issues (particularly regarding the shortstacking/ratholing issue as you pointed out) is because Pokerstars has in every way possible avoided this issue or responding to it in every single communication channel that you are talking about, including the one by Pokerstars Steve where you link us to.

Please, read Steve's latest (and 2nd) post in that thread you linked then ask yourself - Is it really fair to ask us to stop flooding the communication channels with this issue when we get responses that just flat out ignore our main concern?

Communication is a two way street.

Seems good to me, what about you Lee?

Welcome back btw.

As a fellow PLO player and poster in HSPLO do you think its fair that PLO get raked 2x NLHE in bb/100?

Can you or someone else from Stars explain why its a different rakestructure for FLHE vs NLHE/PLO? Why doesnt the same principles apply to PLO for a seperate rake structure? I will argue that esp preflop PLO is more like FLHE then NLHE. (higher vpip, small amount of folding to 3 and 4bets etc).

There is lots of discussion about the PLO rake still unanswered and hopefully one post is not all we see on such important subject when so many agree on the issue. Hopefully Stars listen to logic and care about whats booth fair but also good for the games in the longrun.

You would be a very welcomed addition in this discussion since you know PLO and are known for being sensible. Time to treat PLO and NLHE as different games!

Andreas

That many many players are using all avenues of available communication with your company to focus on a single issue should perhaps tell you something?

You've been around online poker for years. You've seen how rake related issues have gone from relatively esoteric interests to the primary concerns for enormous numbers of players. Do you think basically saying "There ya go. Steve took at least a couple of hours and made a *really* long post for you guys. So let's move on now. Who wants to ask me about open face Chinese poker?" is reasonable?

Players aren't that naive. Actions speak louder than words and the only action we've seen from Stars in the longest time is deciding to try to get rid of table selection. It's practically satirical in its timing.

Lee Jones looking for redemption

Yeah, my apologies for being away since the 14th of December 2012.
I thought you got fired or mugged. But here you are, more than 5 weeks in the future pretending not to be a time traveler.

Anyway, you are like a politician: You are a losing poker player.

I saw that your poker knowledge is limited. Pokerstars should try to hire more winning poker players instead of old antiquities.

Goodbye, see you in early March.

Why has Pokerstars elected to remove the 3r 180man SnG's from the main lobby while still keeping many other forms of SnG's?

I don't play these but over 90% of players on here that do partake in them have voiced their displeasure with this change.

Some have gone so far off the edge and are suggesting that Stars has made this decision in an attempt to hide a "low rake game" from casual players.

Perhaps you could offer us some explanation for this move and how it will offer a better playing experience for your customers.

bummmmmp

the other day the 'fish' at the table was asking one of the Team PokerStars "Pros" to put more money on the table.
i was embarrassed for him.