do the Belgium tax authorities have a reward for turning in tax evaders like the US has?

cross posting this here after realizing I was active in this thread and not nvg originally on it.


adequately addressed by stars as far as the incident goes.*

meh but necessary response by chiren.

going forward I think people should stop publicly making charity donations as some sort of "I've learned my lesson" type thing. It's not ****ing punishment nor should it be some bizarre learning experience to donate money to a worthwhile cause. Including it in apologies this way only ever says to me that the person doesn't have a clue about why or when they should donate to charity.

hey... every time I **** up I'll teach myself a lesson by reminding myself I could have it worse!


* will modify this somewhat. calling a 300+ buyin loss nothing related to chip-dumping is pretty lol. maybe it isn't, but there's nothing to suggest that interpretation is correct.

Nanonoko I think would be offended to be compared to chiren but can't really express it because it involves a fellow Stars pro.

Yea, chiren is clearly on the same level as nanonoko.....LOL. You know it's really quite funny how and you and your buddy chiren think rake whoring is some special feat.

I'm sure we will all find it real benificial.

does the project involve a lathe?

lol @ people thinking chiren paid $4k in rake just to chip dump $3k to 3j55 to avoid taxes, don't be dumb. They make monthly transfers anyway (as noted previously by the ev swap scenario).

+1

Please never compare nanonoko with chiren. Seriously.

They were paying the rake already as part of taking advantage of your promo. This just saved them a step. We aren't stupid Steve and neither are you or the other people at Pokerstars.


Well could you or him explain then why he is folding for the other players remaining $2 with something like $30-$35 in the pot.

How much are you being paid by them to monitor this thread/ respond for them?

Bottomline is that 'rake paid' apparently is an (important) factor in the decision taking by Stars security, although it is always denied.

Chipdump 3k, your account will be frozen.
Dump 3k and pay the same amount in rake, you get away with it.

Somewhere there is a balance. I guess the Chinese colluders walked that fine line for months. Same with the bot ring recently discovered.

lol, pls be a level

haha, well i make no lies about the fact i know them from poker (and obv getting paid nothing). I think most people that know both of them would say both guys are pretty honourable and certainly trustworthy types in general. This situation is pretty unfortunate and i agree it's their own making. I do also think it's been blown a little out of proportion by some people. similar vpp whoring has been done by sne's in the past wthout punishment, so i think there is some precident to why they should not be punished further than they already have. but meh, i think the issue is more or less done with now.

I don't want to say i'm totally unobjective here (since i'm using my own knowledge of the two guys which I know some people here can't), but i do feel it's been made into a **** storm in a tea cup kind of thing. Most of my posts here have been correcting factual inaccuracies though (such as them sharing BR's etc).

Chiren lost intentionally, that's chipdumping.

We can speculate on why Chiren was dumping chips to 3J55 but it's silly to argue that he wasn't, he was clearly dumping chips...

On July 13th and 14th he played 9,658 hands and lost $3,508.42 at 0.05/0.10 NL

To put that loss rate into perspective, at 1/2 that would be a loss of $70,000 in an amount of hands that takes a player like Chiren about 6 hours

350+ buy-ins in 6 hours

And then this thread was started and it stopped.

it would be the worst luck in flippaments ever in the history of mankind
without exaggeration

This is a long thread. What is it actually about?

Basically, Chiren80 and 3j55 do something of dubious ethics, everyone gets their panties in a wad and demands that Chiren80 be punished, Stars punishes him, and then everyone (still with their panties in a wad) demand that it wasn't harsh enough and he should lose his pro status, at least.

Ponty,

I'm fine with them taking advantage of the promo thats not my or anyone else's here concern. None of us have any business at all getting involved in what goes on between Pokerstars and these two concerning that. It makes them look bad but other than that it's Pokerstars concern.

The problem here is they were chip dumping and it appears there may have been some other long term concerns here. Now I will ask you since you like to pop into this thread and give us all the answer's please explain the chip dumping to us.

Please also be sure to go into full detail of why someone would raise $18 pre flop leaving his opponet with $2 and then fold the flop for the remaining $2. Also please read Myturn2raise's post and think about all this before giving us a logical answer. If you can give me some reason that is logical and not a bunch of crap I will accept it. I recently switch from SNG's to cash and I can't think of any reason in either of these games why someone would do such a thing.

The other thing I noticed here is that Steve from Pokerstars was quick to come out and notify another poster in this thread that this was not a security issue. Steve how did you know at that time? You made this claim day's before coming here and telling us the investigation was over and they were clear. Nothing in this whole story adds up and quite frankly I can't see why Pokerstars is so willing to sweep this all under the rug and move on. What is it about Chiren that your company is so hell bent on letting this clear violation of a major rule slide while taking so much heat?

First off Pontylad is legit. he's been around the games forever he has a good reputation and I think he is just trying to take up for his friends.

second pokerstars handled the situation. i dont think chiren and 3j55 were trying to chip dump i think they were just trying to not be flipping. was it wrong yes but stars handled it. they made their decision to make chiren an online pro so it is what it is. obviously with their willingness to stand behind him he must be getting players to sign up to the site. my only problem with the whole thing was that they didnt handle this situation as they had others in the past including mine. i sent a letter to pokerstars about it and it was addressed and i am happy with it. i think its time to move on and play poker.

So you're saying Chiren80 losing 350 buy-ins in less than 10,000 hands was just so it wouldn't look like they were flipping.

Go back a few years. Do you think in a million years Lee Jones would have stated that what Chiren did wasn't chip dumping?

While, as always, PS are free to do what they want the double standard of letting him get away with it while they would ban any normal player instantly for being involved in dumping 300+ buyins is mind blowing.

Here's what I think happened:

I think Chiren80 figured out he gets way over 100% rakeback with Micro Mania, and maximizing the rake per hand at the highest micro stakes available while breaking even would net a big return.

Chiren80 and 3J55 come to an agreement to play HU like maniacs and split the over-the-table losses through cash in-person in order to hide a player-to-player transfer on PokerStars which would obviously arouse the suspicions of PokerStars security.

Chiren80 then figures, as long as I'm just going to get these losses back in cash, I might as well lose a lot because I can avoid paying taxes on cash, and 3J55 doesn't care because his winnings aren't taxed anyway.

Alright, I get it. Sounds like a giant waste of time and not worth the effort to even care about it. Is it all just a bunch of manufactured fake anger then?

Basically correct, except replace "everyone" with "WoW trolls that hate Chiren and have migrated here and 2+2ers with misplaced priorities that find some manner of injustice that their favorite PTR flash in the pan wasn't selected for online pro".

if I had to guess, I think this is closest to the truth

my fear was not over the 10NL actions to take advantage of the promo. I saw PokerStars cut off the >100% loophole for their team pro right away.
My fear was that these two, since they ganged up here to take advantage, might have colluded in the past against other players. PokerStars investigated it and cleared them.

They were angle shooting the promo. I have no problem with a player trying to angle shoot promotions. I do it all the time in the break and mortar world. I have a minor problem with a team online pro trying to angle shoot his own site. PokerStars handled that. PokerStars investigated other concerns.

This seems like a good job of the 2p2 community to highlight the problem and PokerStars in responding to it.