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Old 12-28-2011, 07:31 PM   #476
ESKiMO-SiCKNE5S
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Re: PokerStars.com VIP Program and Ring Game Rake Changes effective January 1, 2012

dont think anyone has mentioned this yet, so i will:

the likely reason they are increasing rake in 5 handed games etc is because it means that vpp rates will actually not go down now for a lot more players. seems that they have tried to do that in as confusing a way as possible so it takes people a while to work it out.

effectively increasing rake = increasing rakeback.
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Old 12-28-2011, 07:33 PM   #477
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Re: PokerStars.com VIP Program and Ring Game Rake Changes effective January 1, 2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by ESKiMO-SiCKNE5S View Post
dont think anyone has mentioned this

effectively increasing rake = increasing rakeback.
capping the rake at $10 per hand means more rakeback no?
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Old 12-28-2011, 07:35 PM   #478
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Re: PokerStars.com VIP Program and Ring Game Rake Changes effective January 1, 2012

By a wide majority, the community agree that regs get screwed by WC. The one group that may not be hit as hard financially as some people think/hope are 12-16 tablers. Not easily, true, but if enough of them move to 20-24 tables. As a group, today's 24-tablers (most are probably more desperate than greedy) are fried by WC.
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Old 12-28-2011, 07:36 PM   #479
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Re: PokerStars.com VIP Program and Ring Game Rake Changes effective January 1, 2012

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Originally Posted by ant___z View Post
Go to the forum at HEM site and get the custom stat (WC Rake).

You will find the instructions there how to add a custom stat (involves creating a txt file with the code on the appropriate folder, basically).
What sub forum is it in? I cant find it anywhere.
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Old 12-28-2011, 07:37 PM   #480
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Re: PokerStars.com VIP Program and Ring Game Rake Changes effective January 1, 2012

I grinded nl 10-25 all year. 30+ hours a week. Starting as a Supernova on Pokerstars.

25,000$+ rake paid.
10k~ in total profit after bonuses, rakeback, hitting a milestone hand etc

Trying to make a living, crushed under the rake.
Yes, study more, work harder, move up, less tables. Etc. I know.
Just want to express my frustration.

We are the 99% of grinders. Thanks stars for squeezing us even harder...
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Old 12-28-2011, 07:37 PM   #481
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Re: PokerStars.com VIP Program and Ring Game Rake Changes effective January 1, 2012

Quote:
effectively increasing rake = increasing rakeback.
you've got to be leveling here but if not

you give me 5 apples i'll give you 3 oranges
you give me 10 apples i'll give you 5 oranges

second one is obviously better deal since you get back more
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Old 12-28-2011, 07:39 PM   #482
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Re: PokerStars.com VIP Program and Ring Game Rake Changes effective January 1, 2012

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Originally Posted by fredjackson View Post
Because the value of a VPP Is based on how often you play.

http://godlikeroy.com/

Let's say you earn 1m vpp the value is about $120k
Let's say you earn 100k vpp the value is about $5.6k
Let's say you earn 3k all year long the value is a T-shirt or Poker Book you order in store, maybe a keychain. Something with Poker Stars in big letters.

By making it "more fair" somehow Stars is going to be earning millions and millions more next year (if people are dumb enough to keep playing there).
Thanks for the explanation. I'll sit around a bit and see how this effects me because I remember FTP working out for me when they changed they're rake method. I'm fairly involved in pots so at least I'll be able to receive a larger share of whats rightfully mine and not some random 8/6 mother f'r.
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Old 12-28-2011, 07:43 PM   #483
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Re: PokerStars.com VIP Program and Ring Game Rake Changes effective January 1, 2012

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Originally Posted by Klever187 View Post
Am I not getting something here? There is still the same $3.00 cap, AND they're taking LESS rake for any pot over $3.25, but instead, distributing the $$ among the players that were INVOLVED. This seems super fair to me, but can someone explain to me how they're making more money?
cause they dont have to pay players rakeback who folded before the flop so they keep a lot of money. Lets say 2 players see the flop in a 6man game. With dealt method 6 players earn rakeback of 50cents each assuming $3 in rake was taken. Now with WC the 2 players chop the $3 so each gets rakeback of $1.5. The other 4 players dont see a penny with WC so stars makes the same money in rake but only pays out 2 players with rakeback instead of 6.
To make it simple, with dealt method if I fold 100% of my hands, I will earn rakeback even though I have never paid any rake (except my blind money) AND RECEIVE THE SAME AMOUNT IN RAKEBACK AS TAG OR LAG
i hope thats right^^
oh and the $3 cap is still there yea, but 5handed there was a $2 cap which they want to increase to $3 as well
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Old 12-28-2011, 07:44 PM   #484
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Re: PokerStars.com VIP Program and Ring Game Rake Changes effective January 1, 2012

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Originally Posted by stratomx View Post
And by the way, I stated in another forum (not 2+2) that If I had known of these changes (dealt to wc) at the beginning of the year I wouldn't have played 24 tables the whole year and just stick to 6-8 and play normal and wouldn't have to burn so many hours of my time.

There are many great players that can't multitable properly (20+tabs) but that can crush the games when playing very few tables. Not even going to say I'm in that category but if players figure that their hourly with the new rake system is going to decrease with their current game style (24tables etc etc) and will increase if they reduce their number of tables and increase their winrates, then these changes suck for everyone even more.
how much notice do you think would have been fair?
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Old 12-28-2011, 07:45 PM   #485
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Re: PokerStars.com VIP Program and Ring Game Rake Changes effective January 1, 2012

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Originally Posted by fredjackson View Post
People can hold a different opinion but they should not be allowed to spam things that are not factual and not based on opinion.
THis is the problem.

When Stars reps read this thread, they won't know the difference. This is why I said a neutral, credible person should do a bit of investigating.
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Old 12-28-2011, 07:46 PM   #486
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Re: PokerStars.com VIP Program and Ring Game Rake Changes effective January 1, 2012

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Originally Posted by NLfund View Post
Anyone know how this affects HU tables NL100 and above?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but there would be functionally no change. WC vs. Dealt doesn't matter when you're HU, and the big rake increase is when there are five players at the table.
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Old 12-28-2011, 07:50 PM   #487
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Re: PokerStars.com VIP Program and Ring Game Rake Changes effective January 1, 2012

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Originally Posted by JH1 View Post
you've got to be leveling here but if not

you give me 5 apples i'll give you 3 oranges
you give me 10 apples i'll give you 5 oranges

second one is obviously better deal since you get back more
you guys seem to be missing my point entirely.

obviously the second is far worse, thats my point.

however, people are going to look at how vpp/hand is affected.

by switching from the 5 apple scenario to the 10 apple scenario, stars effectively confuses people about how much of a cash grab they are doing here because noone's vpp/hand will be significantly changed, they will just all become losing players (due to paying more rake), and not really know why.
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Old 12-28-2011, 07:52 PM   #488
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Re: PokerStars.com VIP Program and Ring Game Rake Changes effective January 1, 2012

Can someone make a HM stats or report of the new rake system?
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Old 12-28-2011, 07:54 PM   #489
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Re: PokerStars.com VIP Program and Ring Game Rake Changes effective January 1, 2012

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Originally Posted by coach999 View Post
cause they dont have to pay players rakeback who folded before the flop so they keep a lot of money. Lets say 2 players see the flop in a 6man game. With dealt method 6 players earn rakeback of 50cents each assuming $3 in rake was taken. Now with WC the 2 players chop the $3 so each gets rakeback of $1.5. The other 4 players dont see a penny with WC so stars makes the same money in rake but only pays out 2 players with rakeback instead of 6.
To make it simple, with dealt method if I fold 100% of my hands, I will earn rakeback even though I have never paid any rake (except my blind money) AND RECEIVE THE SAME AMOUNT IN RAKEBACK AS TAG OR LAG
i hope thats right^^
oh and the $3 cap is still there yea, but 5handed there was a $2 cap which they want to increase to $3 as well
I think paying out two players is fair. But I didn't know about them increasing the cap at 5 handed tables which will obviously suck
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Old 12-28-2011, 07:54 PM   #490
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Pokerstars New Rake Calculation

Has anyone actually done the math to see how the new rake changes are going to effect high volume players or is everyone just crying because it is a change?

EDIT: If someone actually does do the math I think it would be good to put it in this first post so people can actually find it.

Last edited by kleinstein000; 12-28-2011 at 08:00 PM.
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Old 12-28-2011, 07:55 PM   #491
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Re: Pokerstars New Rake Calculation

really? new topic?
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Old 12-28-2011, 07:56 PM   #492
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Re: Pokerstars New Rake Calculation

**** off
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Old 12-28-2011, 07:56 PM   #493
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Re: Pokerstars New Rake Calculation

I cant find it anywhere and all I see is people complaining about something that they have 0 facts on.
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Old 12-28-2011, 07:57 PM   #494
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Re: Pokerstars New Rake Calculation

Nah its actually better if there's a separate thread for a math wizard to run a calculation for us
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Old 12-28-2011, 07:58 PM   #495
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Re: Pokerstars New Rake Calculation

First: No way this is threadworthy.

Second: Yes, people have done the math. I've simplified it below:

$3 > $2

Seriously though, if you play microstakes, the change doesn't affect you (since you never hit the cap). If you play FR, the change is likely to be minor (since you rarely play five handed). If you play six max, you are getting killed by this change. That goes for all games btw.
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Old 12-28-2011, 07:58 PM   #496
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Re: PokerStars.com VIP Program and Ring Game Rake Changes effective January 1, 2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by rzweig View Post
What sub forum is it in? I cant find it anywhere.
Took me forever to find it. I *think* this is it, you need to add it to your customstats.txt file and then close/open HEM and add the stat.

<Stat ColumnName="WCRake" ValueExpressions="SUM(pkh.rakeamount * (phmisc.postamountpreflop + phmisc.betamountpreflop + phmisc.callamountpreflop + COALESCE(flop.betamount + flop.callamount, 0) + COALESCE(turn.betamount + turn.callamount, 0) + COALESCE(river.betamount + river.callamount, 0)) * 1. / (pkh.potsize + pkh.rakeamount)) * 0.01 AS WCRake" Evaluate="WCRake" ColumnHeader="WC Rake" ColumnFormat="$0.00" ColumnWidth="*" Tooltip="Weighted Contributed Rake (including uncalled bets)" />
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Old 12-28-2011, 07:58 PM   #497
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Re: Pokerstars New Rake Calculation

Just some things to think about:

The rake is actually going to be LOWER at small/mid/high stakes according to the chart posted in the other thread.

Slightly lowering rewards for high volume players and giving more rewards to low volume players should result in a healthier overall poker economy.
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Old 12-28-2011, 07:59 PM   #498
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Re: Pokerstars New Rake Calculation

Quote:
Originally Posted by starvingwriter82 View Post
First: No way this is threadworthy.

Second: Yes, people have done the math. I've simplified it below:

$3 > $2

Seriously though, if you play microstakes, the change doesn't affect you. If you play FR, the change is likely to be minor. If you play six max, you are getting killed by this change.
Why are you getting killed? The rake taken is lower
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Old 12-28-2011, 08:00 PM   #499
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Re: Pokerstars New Rake Calculation

Quote:
Originally Posted by kleinstein000 View Post
Drastically lowering rewards for high volume players and giving more stress balls to low volume players should result in a healthy money grab for Stars.
FYP
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Old 12-28-2011, 08:02 PM   #500
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Re: PokerStars.com VIP Program and Ring Game Rake Changes effective January 1, 2012

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Originally Posted by ponnzi View Post
i read your post
they are leeching off of the people who play more pots and win more hands
this is a fact, not an opinion

You say you did read but there is no sign that you did get the content, for whatever reason.

What I wrote was this (quote of the relevant part):

"Unless someone is getting more in rakeback than the rake he pays to the site up front (while playing poker at the tables and winning hands) no one is leeching no one cause they have a "higher rakeback", even if the method is "dealt"."


Your posts on the context of an answer to my post dont make sense. You seem that you did not read, you read but payed no attention or you read but you sill dont grasp it.




If there are players that pay less in total rake than the total rakeback they get, you are free to show them (that's a "fact" to those specific players and just those, if they exist). I am not saying there is none. I am saying that unless that happens, players are not leeching anyone and just getting back a part of what they payed up front while playing.

Also, since you refered to me at some point and what i cared about, even with the rules of 2011 I get in rakeback about half what I pay in rake up front. I am leeching no one and its not even close. On the contrary, I payed in services to the site about $50.000 so far, after accounting all the rewards back (I have been Supernova for the last two years).



At this point it seems also pointless to keep exchanging posts with you cause it is just a matter of you understand or not what I already wrote about this. I dont even care if you are able or not so I will not insist or try to help you further!
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