Hi Guys, (I posted this on a closed thread so reposted on this new thread)

I'm new to the forum so just looking for a bit of advice. I've held an account with Pokerstars for few years. The username is similar to my forum username. My stats weren't spectacular, but not really the issue at present.

My account was fully verified, all deposits were from my own debit card, not credit card, or gifts (transfers from other players).

I have never colluded, cheated or been involved with any incident of Fraud, however, I got an email which read as follows:

Hello,

We are sorry to inform you that as a result of a internal review we have decided to close your account permanently.

It will not be possible to reopen your account again or allow you to open a new one.

This decision has been made in accordance with the Terms of Service of the site, located here:

https://www.pokerstars.uk/poker/room/tos/

Which state the following:

"3. AUTHORITY

Rational Group retains authority over the issuing, maintenance, and closing of Users’ accounts on the Site."

Please do not attempt to create any other accounts as doing so is a violation of our terms of service. If we discover a new account it will be closed without notice, you will be liable for any loss that could occur and the remaining funds could be confiscated.

We apologize for any inconvenience that this may have caused you.

Regards,

I have read a few incidences where people have had success stories; I appreciate Pokerstars reserves the right to close an account at their own discretion, but it is my understanding that this only happens with valid reasons.

I have read the TOS, I am a UK player, with no links to any criminal activity. When I asked them for clarification they responded:

'Unfortunately, for privacy and security reasons, we are unable to elaborate any further on this issue.'

Sorry for the long thread, any advice here would be appreciated.

Thanks
FaddyQ

post ALL emails to AND from PokerStars about this issue

Did they confiscate any funds? If not they can do business with whoever they want for any reason.

Initial email from Pokerstars:

Hello,

We are sorry to inform you that as a result of a internal review we have decided to close your account permanently.

It will not be possible to reopen your account again or allow you to open a new one.

This decision has been made in accordance with the Terms of Service of the site, located here:

https://www.pokerstars.uk/poker/room/tos/

Which state the following:

"3. AUTHORITY

Rational Group retains authority over the issuing, maintenance, and closing of Users’ accounts on the Site."

Please do not attempt to create any other accounts as doing so is a violation of our terms of service. If we discover a new account it will be closed without notice, you will be liable for any loss that could occur and the remaining funds could be confiscated.

We apologize for any inconvenience that this may have caused you.

Regards,

Luis C
Stars Responsible Gaming Specialist
.................................................. ...............................

My reply:


Hi,

Can you explain to me what I have done to breach any rules? I find this highly irregular and unprofessional, but that being the case would like to understand what led you to carry out this action as I'm sure this must be some kind of mistake?

I don't usually take the time right go through random links emailed to me, however, in this instance I read through the entire document and cannot see any reason for why my account was terminated?

A swift and thorough response would be appreciated.

Regards

.................................................. ..........................................

Their response:

Hello,

Unfortunately, for privacy and security reasons, we are unable to elaborate any further on this issue.

We wish you the best.

Regards,

Jeff
Stars Senior Responsible Gaming Specialist

.................................................. .........................................
My response:

Hi,

I appreciate you reserve the right to close accounts at your own discretion, but I would have thought this would have been where there was a potential issue concerning beach of terms.

It's fine if you choose not to reopen my account, but I'm sure there is a procedure under freedom of information where you should give me a valid reason for closing my account?

I admit I may not be a high stakes player which is why you may not value my custom but I have not engaged in fraud, collusion, possession of multiple accounts and even so have complied every time stars has requested identification as such I feel given the so called calibre of pokerstars either via telephone/email/chat you can explain what led to this decision.

Kind regards,

.................................................. ..............................................

Their response:

Hello,

We do apologies but our position on this matter remains unchanged.

Regards,

Finn,
Stars Responsible Gaming
.................................................. ...........................................

My response:

Hi,

I wasn't asking you to reconsider, but clearly the message wasn't read properly. Does this ban include full tilt as well?

Regards
.................................................. ......................................
Their final response:

Hello,

It does unfortunately. You may not use our services again in any capacity.

Our best wishes to you.

Regards,

Ciaran,
Stars Responsible Gaming


.................................................. .................................

Prior to this the only incident I have ever had with Pokerstars was a week earlier when I made a deposit the funds were taken from my debit card, but did not appear on my Pokerstars account; they ackowledged it was a processing error on their side took a few days to resolve the issue by refunding the money back to my bank and said I could make the deposit again. I did this; and than the next day this email trail as above.

I am not entirely sure how much was in there, if anything it would have been a couple of dollars max as I had recently purchased tournament tickets and the remainder of the cash was lost the night before.

My issue is the way they closed the account without any information as it made me feel as though they are either accusing my of criminal activity or some other form of wrongdoing.

Emails are coming from there. Its highly unlikely that you will be back on the site if you have had issues with responsible gaming on Stars/FTP in the past. You can contact their regulator, but will probably be told the same thing.

Looks like a manager already reviewed it too, as the 2nd email from them came from a "Senior Responsible Gaming Specialist".

Generally players do not receive the first email from Stars out of the blue, even for nefarious activity, as there would be several queries first. They take the responsible gaming stuff insanely seriously.

Ask for the remainder of your balance - they will convert T$ etc into cash for your withdrawal

Agreed.

IMO, the key to this whole thing - is in the fact that, the emails aren't coming from Pokerstars security (which normally deal with account issues when it comes to players doing something wrong etc...) but, are instead coming from the 'responsible gaming' branch of Pokerstars.

This would indicate to me that, you have previously had dealings with 'responsible gaming' in someway, either by way of a playing break or deposit limits or whatever else the case maybe in regards to what they offer in terms of responsible gaming options.

I get the feeling there maybe something missing from this story, because of the 'responsible gaming' involvement in the account closure and the fact that Pokerstars simply don't randomly close accounts for no reason...

From a page on Coral's site:

What does playing responsibly mean to you?
Betting and playing responsibly means enjoying and being in control of your gambling experience as part of your normal entertainment expenditure.

What does playing responsibly mean to us?
Being a responsible company means protecting vulnerable players, preventing underage gambling and fraudulent and criminal behaviour, safeguarding your private information, guaranteeing prompt and accurate payments – and above all, providing players with all the tools needed to enjoy the best possible experience.

Forgive my iggorance, pmarrsouth, but that's quite a wide range of reasons why the e-mail was from the Responsible Gaming department - no? Why do you imply it's significant?

Edit: Ah, I see sonic's further comments in this regard. They may think he has a gambling problem?

As Sonic said, the email would come from likely security (or another dept) for something like "fraudulent and criminal behaviour".

Stars have their own separate responsible gaming department, who only really deal with that topic. Other sites may indeed have that merged into a general support/security role

https://www.pokerstars.com/about/responsible-gaming/
https://www.pokerstars.co.uk/about/responsible-gaming/
https://www.pokerstars.eu/about/responsible-gaming/

(presume the last 2 links work, but who knows with stars)

Could be that. Could be one of many things. Pokerstars has many responsible gaming options to choose from within the poker client, ranging from cashier limits - right up to temp/permanent self exclusion.

We don't know what (if any) previous dealings the OP has had with responsible gaming in terms of the range of options I mentioned, which is why I said I think there is something missing from this story for them to be involved rather than Pokerstars security.

I appreciate that it may look like there is some information missing, but genuinely that is not the case here. I have not had any dealings with any department of stars regarding issues with gameplay except for when the verification team requested confirmation of ID due to the amount I had staked in a day as follows:

Dear FaddyQ

The conditions of our UK gaming license require all real money players that have staked the currency equivalent of €2,000 or more within a 24 hour period, to provide additional proof of identity.

As you have staked at least this amount you are required to send us clear colour copies of the following documents within the next 30 days or your account will be suspended.

1) A government-issued photographic ID document (passport, driver’s license, ID card)
2) A recent utility bill or bank statement which clearly shows your full name, current UK address and statement date (no older than three months)

You can send these by email to: verifyme@starsaccount.uk

OR

Login to your Stars Account and use our software to upload the document by following these steps:

Help > Contact Support > Open Contact Support Form
Choose category: ‘Security’
Choose sub-category: ‘Verify Me’

We thank you for your understanding and cooperation in this matter.

Kind regards,
Stars Verifications

Once I responded to the above email with ID I got a follow up email:

Hello FaddyQ,

Thank you for your email.

We are pleased to confirm that the documents you sent have been accepted and your account verification has been completed.

If you have any questions on the verification process, please do not hesitate to get in touch.

Regards,
Stars Verification

.................................................. .................................

However, with reference to the above I had actually deposited £85 and due to their bonus play requirements I had staked on various games around €2,000 in order to have the bonus verified. The amounts I have deposited couldn't indicate that of problem gambling my previous 3 deposits were £85, £50 and £50 within the last 2 months.

The emails received were the first point of contact which is why I am wondering if anyone knows how to handle/address the issue. I have not had any queries put towards me, nor any contact regarding nefarious activity it was as stated out of the blue 'we are closing your account down'.

If that's the case and there hasn't been anything else left out, then this really is a mystery to me.

I've been around the poker scene for a quite sometime and i've never heard of a players account randomly being closed down (in the manner yours apparently has) without there being some sort of valid reason to do so.

Poker site officials simply aren't in the business of waking up one morning and deciding to remove random legit paying customers just for the sake of it - it's bad for business. There has to be something about your account that raised a red flag and caught there attention in the first place...

Although they have the right to close a players account at anytime they wish to, the whole thing just doesn't add up or make sense to me...

That's what my take was too, I understand they have the right to do so, but they haven't given me any reason or indication as to why it has all happened. I have found contact details for their regulation in the UK and their is a susbset for complaints against online poker/gaming accounts being closed down.

Thanks for the advice and input, I will reach out to their regulator, if not for a resolution than at least an answer, I'm hoping I'm owed that much atleast as I do not know what I could possibly have done wrong to raise any concerns. I will update the thread to hopefully avoid others facing a similar issue in the future....

Go to your UK regulator

Can you post a link their regulator, I can't seem to find that info? I need to contact them myself.

The regulator for the UK is the Gambling Commission but they won't help you at all.

If you want to find what information they hold on you, ask for a data subject access request.

https://ico.org.uk/for-organisations...ccess-request/


btw did you give anyone abuse in chat or say anything that could be construed as indicating you were getting upset by a bad beat?

No the opposite actually. I know I probably put myself across as saint like - I'm not, but my table etiquette is good. I was abused very recently by some guy on the speed cash tables who kept losing to me, I ignored them and carried on playing.

I am completely in the dark as to what I could have done to provoke an immediate red flag and if I have done something that I am not aware of I would like to find out what that is.

You seem pretty certain the Gambling Commission has no authority in this area, can you elborate further?

-i was going to ask if you had been saying things in the chat as well, claiming you were going to harm yourself or others?
- are you self banned from any other sites?
-were you placing sports bets and winning?

No, I wasn't involved in any intense conversations on any of the chats. Nor am I banned on any other sites.

I was winning on table games, nothing on sports betting. I made one bet of £100 and made an early cash out of £150 lol otherwise my main activity was on cash games, twisters, and casino table games. Even than none of my wins were substancial enough for it to be flagged high enough as problem gambling.

I will see where the gambling commission takes me, but from what I'm gauging from responses I am looking for justification rather than returning back to the felt at pokerstars.

it does seem odd for you to be banned if you havnt done anything because sites dont just do this for no reason at all. stars is known for limiting bets/closing accounts of sports bettors much quicker then other bookmakers though. they have also banned some HU bumhunters for having too high a win rate but those are super rare cases.

the only way you can possibly get back is if there has been some mixup that occured that can be resolved. because casinos both live and online can refuse your action whenever they want without any reason. some people mistakenly think its their right to play but thats not the case.

does some1 else have access to ur comp? do u leave stars running when away from comp?

u may not think u have a gambling problem but maybe some1 in ur household/family does and accessed the self exclusion feature on stars when u were away

also r u playing underaged and used a relatives ID and stars found out?

If this was answered, I missed it.

This is the complaints procedure, at no point is there a stage "contact the gambling commission"

http://www.gamblingcommission.gov.uk...-business.aspx

As I said, you have the right under data protection legislation to see any info that Stars holds about you. That is the route I would take.

lol no I am 28 years old, the account was in my name, verified with my ID and funds deposited from my bank account, stars would have proof of this as when they asked to verify my account they got both a copy of my bank statement and photo ID (passport).

No one has access to my laptop as it's password protected and it is also used for work so I have it with me most of the time. I will try requesting what data they hold under FOI as per davmcg's suggestions and see where it takes me.

Minimal funds as there wasn't much in the account save for tournament tickets I had purchased beforehand

Ah I see, appreciate the clarification, I'll see what they advise under FOI I'll submit the request today. Thanks for the advice.

u still havent answered the question. are ur funds being held & later released to u upon closing the account or have the funds been confiscated? there's a big difference b/w the two

Apologies, I wasn't ignoring the question. I hadn't made a request for the money yet, but I will do now, as they responded quickly to my FOI request.

Hello,

Again, I'm sorry, but for privacy and security reasons, we are unable to elaborate any further on this issue.

Please note that as a private business, we reserve the right to refuse service for any reason, which is what we are doing in this case. I would direct you to our Terms of Service, which is located here:

https://www.pokerstars.uk/poker/room/tos/

Which includes the following:

"2.3 Rational Group reserves the right to suspend, discontinue, modify, remove or add to the Service in its absolute discretion with immediate effect and without an obligation to provide you with notice where we consider it necessary to do so, including (for example) where we receive information that you have entered into any self-exclusion agreement with any gambling provider or where we deem it necessary for the management, maintenance or update of the Software and we shall not be liable in any way whatsoever for any loss suffered as a consequence of any decision made by Rational Group in this regard.

3. AUTHORITY

Rational Group retains authority over the issuing, maintenance, and closing of Users’ accounts on the Site. The decision of Rational Group’s management, as regards any aspect of a User’s account or use of the Service is final and shall not be open to review or appeal subject always to the right of Users to refer any unresolved complaints to the independent disputes resolution process set out in Section 12 of this Agreement. The account created by a User shall hereinafter be known as a Stars Account. The User’s Stars Account will provide access to all the Sites, made available to you under the terms of this Agreement, by Amaya Group Limited, as applicable to your geographical location. Any and all references in this Agreement to the term ‘User account’ or ‘account’ means your Stars Account."

If you wish to pursue a complaint, you can find the process here:

https://www.pokerstars.uk/united-kingdom/

As we have said all we can on the matter, further emails will not be responded to.

We wish you the best.

Regards,

Jeff
Stars Responsible Gaming Manager