I'm starting to think so because I've noticed certain players often take longer than other players do and they make strange plays like checking the nut flush last to act, making a big raise and then folding to a small raise etc..I just kinda find that disturbing if they actually are bots that these sites don't even have some way of screening out the software involved. I mean seriously, bots have been weeded out by simple software programs for so long, how can these poker sites that undoubtedly have so much bling from rake not do anything about it?

Pokerstars is very very good at detecting bots and I'd be very surprised if they found any bots playing on it anymore.

Sites like Ipoker have plenty of bots, all the way from NL5 to NL2k. There was at least 10 bots playing NL400-NL2k last year on Ipoker.

Yeah I can't play on pokerstars, I know they're doing things right, but unfortunately I'm stuck with Lock (revolution/cake network) if I want to play online poker. And there's a lot of shady crap happening on it.

use pokertableratings to gather evidence and no there are no bots @ cake.

How could you conclusively say there are no bots on cake?

I'm not saying there are , just asking how could you know for sure there isnt?

Great thread to identify obvious shills

Bots are a reality unfortunately OP. Although, most of the players that you saw do the things you suspected as being evidence of botting were most likely not bots. People are slow, make mistakes, and make bad plays all of the time.

I'm guilty of this lol. Multitabling gets to your head sometimes. I doubt you will actually find bots checking down the nuts tho.

+1 It happens.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1kjtsK39B_o

Yep. The sort of weird behaviour seen by OP is most likely to be human error. I've seen weird plays like checking the nuts on the river in position and it's completely messed up my head and I've had to ask in chat about it. Every single time, the player has said something like "I wasn't paying attention. I was watching the football and didn't even realise I'd made the straight" or something like that.

According to the various threads about suspected bots, an average player would hardly notice them, because they just play solid ABC poker, only more so. Groups of bots have been spotted because they all had very similar stats over large samples, with rigid bet-sizes and certain stats (like 4-bet pre) being at an extreme/questionable level. A solo bot that played a standard TAG game would be virtually impossible for a fellow player to identify.

There are absolutely bots on Bodog/Bovada, something the bot makers brag about. The Cake skin also had bots but I'm not so sure what the move to JuicyStakes has done. If the software was changed dramatically (I don't know because I don't have an account with Cake) the bots are probably not going to work until the bots are updated.

Bots are pretty easy to beat if, first of all, you are aware that they are in fact bots and, secondly, if you are a winning player. Bots go after recreational players and can often beat them which is one reason I feel they are so bad for the game.

Currently I have found 4 accounts all from the same Country that sit at the same seat (6 max table and historically pick the 3rd likeliest table starting seat) when buying in and play the exact same buy in level and are all table starters. For me that's too much of a coincidence. Is that enough to prove they are bots?... I say why take a chance and play with them.

It as near a certainty as it's possible to be that there are robots in online poker - and that includes all sites. (Although some are a great deal more pro-active at detecting and getting rid of them than others.)

However, a lot of the time people come onto the forums and start to make allegations that certain players are robots based on completely faulty assumptions.

It's very difficult to detect an individual robot based on its play. If it's winning long term then its technique is clearly viable and does not indicate anything suspicious; why would a human not use a viable technique.

If it's losing, long term, then why would anyone run a robot to lose money?

(In both of the above cases, assume winning/losing is assessed after any rakeback.)

The only reasonably reliable way for users to detect robots is either that they play an absurd number of hours or that there are a group of players with statistically improbable similarities in their stats. Even these are only really indications.

The sites themselves can deploy a far greater range of techniques and Pokerstars, in particular are generally reckoned to be extremely good at this. Fulltilt used to have purges on robots but they used a somewhat scatter gun approach and tended to hit quite a few innocent victims. It is to be hoped that PS allows them, at some point, to use their robot detection technology - if they ever start up again.

PokerStars does (or at least did when I was able to play there) a couple of things that are really good for stopping bots. First of all they have software that looks at what software is running on a player's computer and takes swift action against offenders. PS also has players fill in a "captcha" when those players play long sessions.

Some sites simply don't care about bots. UltimateBet was infested with bots. There were some bots that literally played 24 hours a day which was pretty easy to spot yet UB did nothing. Even bots produce rake for a site. That's really all some sites care about.

I can tell you i've played lots of 24 hour sessions (or very close to 24 hour sessions) and can't ever remember getting a captcha message (this is on Stars). So I don't think playing long sessions alone triggers a captcha message to appear.

There would be many changes in various aspects of your play (which I'm obviously not going to mention here) over a 24 period of continuous play.

A robot, on the other hand, will tend to play very consistently no matter how long it operates for.

'Stars will be looking at a range of factors to enable them to catch robots with minimal disruption to genuine players. (And, remember, passing a Captcha in no way guarantees that a player is not a robot any more than does chatting.)

I got the captcha's when I played very long sessions of playing 4 to 6 tables. I never did anything else to set them off. And I never used or installed any kind of software on their banned list.

Maybe their software picked up that I was on autopilot.

There aren't any bots that are for sale that I am aware of that are able to fill in captcha's. A programmer might be able to devise something but the overwhelming majority of bots are commercially available bots that simply don't have that capability.

PokerStars fighting hard, but there are still playing bots and even more you can imagine

I have some contacts/sources and nowadays, basically quite impossible to detect bots. I mean you can spot them but PokerStars cant do anything because real people are behing in computers.

They just using "advisor" - script what tell you what todo now. So there is human-being behing the comp who pressing buttons, typing captcha code, need to eat, need to make breaks, need to pee - whatever.

Only way how to detect them is to go very extreme - go players home and see how he is playing but its quite unrealistic

Sad but its true

If you are SNG players, then basically every month you get refunded by PokerStars who sending mail to you: We detect illegal actions blbalabal and thats why you get $XXXX.

Also in internet you can find bot forums, where people exchaning thoughts, selling-swaping HH-s etc.

Also bot-owners hiring people in public job-seeking sites, like that: http://www.reed.co.uk/jobs/experienc...tition/o422730

EDIT: so yes, my answer is: bots are very common in online poker.

Clue: Just because a robot is playing the hand does not mean that the operator is not nearby and able to fill in the Captcha. In the same way that an operator can chat whilst his robot plays.

Pokerstars does not use software to see what is running on your computer.

Clue: If a bot is playing long enough hours for PS to post a captcha the operator is probably taking a nap.

It's common knowledge that PokerStars does look on players computers. They make no secret of that whatsoever. When I played there it was part of the TOS that players had to agree to in order to sign up. When PS finds banned software they generally give the player one warning to remove it. After that they get banned. I doubt that bots get that first warning though.

Very easy to detect and send a captcha to a site where you pay for them to solve. Yes such sites exist and are usually really cheap like 10$ for 1000 captchas or whatever it is currently (don't know).

Once they solve it, you have your bot input the captcha solved answer, where it's needed.

Side note: I think captchas are useless and laugh every time people suggest them.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi,

If someone abuses you (or another player) at the table using statistics from a banned service (such as those listed above) then please let us know about it so that we can take action.

You can use the 'Call Moderator' function in the first instance, or email support@pokerstars.com. It is certainly our policy to take appropriate action against such people, although we recognise that individual staff may make errors from time to time in enforcing this procedure.


Quote:
Originally Posted by rakekills
the person giving the abuse was using a banned programme whilst playing against me. And stars security are not now taking any action against people using the banned programmes whilst the client is running.

PokerStars formerly took action against people who visited prohibited web sites, but largely as a result of feedback from this forum (and other sources) we discontinued this activity. Players were concerned about the possibility of PokerStars viewing web browsing history (even though we never had access to such data) and thus, we want to avoid even the perception that PokerStars will unreasonably intrude into player privacy.

We listened to players on this issue, and we changed our policy as a result.

If you do have further feedback, please feel free to email us anytime at support@pokerstars.com

Regards,

Michael J
PokerStars Game Security Team

Pokerstars does not look at software running on computers

Anyone who is sufficiently organised will ensure they have cover for when they are not watching themselves. Assuming they are not sufficiently skilled to have their robot generate a nice loud alarm when it detects a Captcha.

Definiltey they have or had some kind of access. When I was noob at poker, it was 5 years ago or so, I downloaded random pokersoftware.

Almost instantly I got mail from PokerStars where they said that I should stop using program (cant remmeber name anymore) because its not allowed to use and if I keep using this programm, they ban my account.

So, how they knew, that I am using illegal program? Also, if you look one bot's installation description, then they even disguise their program and its named to svchost.exe.