*

With reference to the previous meetings between Twoplustwo users and PokerStars, PokerStars Steve has informed me that PS would like to invite another three player/user representatives to the Isle of Man in October to Meetings with Management and key staff to discuss various matters; where confidential data and information may be revealed to them, (under Non-disclosure Agreements), that is not appropriate for public display:

"PokerStars would like to invite three players from the 2+2 forums to visit us on the Isle of Man for meetings on October 17th, 18th, and 19th. They will be joined by three representatives from other online forums.

The main aim of the meetings is two way communication between PokerStars and the players. We can discuss future plans and development priorities for new client features, game offerings, VIP Club benefits including 2013 changes, promotions, or pretty much anything the players care to discuss. We will also share some information on financials.

We will ensure that the appropriate senior managers are present for whichever topic is being discussed.

The goal of the meetings is for both sides to gain greater knowledge and understanding and for the site to improve as a result. While rake is a topic that we will be perfectly happy to discuss, these are not collective bargaining negotiations on rake/price between representatives of players and PokerStars.

Anyone expecting their representatives to come in treating PokerStars as an opponent to be beaten is likely to be disappointed. If this is the case for you, please do not take it out on the representatives. This is a collaborative and constructive process, not a competition.

For the vast majority who do support the vision for these meetings, I thank you in advance for your participation whether it be voting or attempting to become a representative."

As before, I'll open a "CV thread" for volunteers and those proposed by others to give their credentials and aspirations, in due course. Then, probably, a voting thread.

Please treat this as the general discussion thread towards this end.

*

Edit: A thread for the volunteer and nominated users, only, is at http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/28.../#post35065026.

*

Edit: Time-limited Voting Thread is here.

*

Edit: *

Trip Report by Alex Wice.

Trip Report by IWEARGOGGLES.

Trip Report by OMGClayDol.

I support their eventual return to some or all of the U.S. market, and re-assembly of the currently fragmented international market.

The world was a better place with international internet poker.

Previous thread, (April Meeting), for easy reference: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/28...posed-1175764/

No volunteers? No nominations? No comments? No interest?

Will I inform PS that Twoplustwo users respectfully decline their offer on this occasion?

nothing really happens so I don't see the point.

We send 3 reps they come back stars fanboys. Who in their right mind would go waste a week in the isle of man, doing nothing and getting nothing accomplished.

Stars should just do a monthly newsletter instead. Because the bottom line is, we ask for changes and basically nothing happens. Or it gets worse. And the changes are made with no advanced notice and having these little meetings makes no difference.

We want - LOWER RAKE. Meeting adjourned.

I put up a thread in MTTc. If no one is interested I will volunteer myself!

Would love to go and though I didn't get top 3 votes last time I got enough to where I think the community wouldn't hate it if I went but I have to be back the 19th in holland so I didn't volunteer... I'm surprised nobody volunteered though!

I think its pretty clear at this point its just a PR stunt and nothing else

someone can nominate me if they want but i nominate shaniac for now

I'd loovvveeee to do this.

I think that it's really important that players step up for this occasion as there are a lot of serious issues to be discussed regarding the state of all the different games. 2+2 is full of really smart people who understand what the problems are and who can bring solutions to the table. I understand that the previous meetings left many of us with the impression that nothing changed and that nothing will change but I hope it won't discourage anyone to volunteer to go to the IOM and work on making Pokerstars better for all of us. There were tons of 2+2ers with great ideas in the Zoo threads at the beginning of 2012 but now it seems like they all vanished.

The thread after the previous meeting http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/28...ssion-1195589/

Here are some of the things that I think reps need to work on with Stars :

Rake

Stars acknowledged after the previous meeting that the rake structure at CAP/PLO especially needs to be revisited as there's clearly a problem at some stakes. I hope that Stars still agrees with that and are ready to offer some solutions to the players. Alex Wice has a great post in the thread that I linked about solutions that could be used in those games. I think they implemented some positive changes for LHE after the last meeting (I'm really not sure about this) but if not, it's also another game that needs help with it's rake structure.

Promotions

I've been Supernova for many years and I'm quite happy with the VIP system even though I got a big cut in my RB in 2012. One thing that Stars should work on IMO are reload bonuses. While I love them, at the end of the day I don't deposit on the site except for those bonuses. Take that money that you offer me (and all the other grinders) and give frequent reload bonuses to the guys who deposited $100 one time, lost it in 15 minutes and never deposited again. Send them emails, give them bonuses and try to make them come back. There are tons of ways to cater to those players and I feel like Stars isn't doing enough to attract them.

Software features

Pokerstars needs to be way more oriented towards recreational players and the software needs to be more friendly to them. Adding smileys in the chat is a step in the right direction. From what I saw many players use them a lot and it definitely lightens the mood at the tables. I really wish Stars would implement something like a badge system to encourage recreational players to play more. It's quite simple actually, the game needs to be more FUN. Give the players reasons to come back. FTP was better than Stars for that and I hope that you'll ''steal'' some ideas from them.


I highly suggest to anyone who is interested to go to read the thread I linked earlier (post #1 and #42 especially) and as it really gives a good idea about the current issues. It's a great opportunity and it would be a shame to see players not interested in participating. I'm not giving my candidature as I'm not well known in this community but I have big hopes for Pokerstars in 2013, if they're really open to make some changes.

Hood' a players rep, mentioned that there were some LHE promos in the works but nothing came of it after the 1st Players/Stars meeting. I think Pokerstars should either do away with these meetings or at least follow through on what they say they are going to do. By not doing any LHE promo, that was said to be in the works, it shows great disrespect to the community.

This gives people more reason to believe that Pokerstars is still geared towards their balancing of winning to losing players strategy to keep more money in play for longer to maximize rake due to extra hands being played before funds are switched from losing players to winning players.

Examples of this:

1) VPP switch from dealt to contributed. Winning players generally are tighter and with more fpps going to recreationals they last longer in the games which means more hands.

2) They've offer more turbo tourneys this past year. With turbos winning players have a lower ROI

3) TLB for next year... it pays more players and of course without even doing the calculations I'm sure it will result in less money in total when considering freerolls etc.

4) The near complete removal of any extra value FPP tourneys which used to add one seat to the prizepool. These were mainly played by Winning Supernova type players. By my estimate Stars has saved about 300k this past year by switching them to guaranteed seats, (I agree these do get more players) but why not guaranteed seats with 1 added?

The above are some of the reasons that a good rep is needed who can see what the agenda is. If the community would have me I'd go to look for some fairer compromises.

I'd also love to see 'Do it right' go as he seems very uncompromised and his data collection that he's worked on is extensive. If he were to go I'd feel that there would be frank discussion and some positive resolutions could come of it.

No PLO promotions as well They made GodlikeRoy (who's exclusively a PLO midstakes player) a member of Team Online 6 months ago and still there hasn't been a single PLO promotion. As of matter of fact, for nearly 5 years on Stars, I have seen only one global PLO promotion and it was for four $55 tourneys with a bounty on LuckyGump's head.

Very, very disappointing.

PLO has the potential to be huge but there are major issues that need to be addressed. They've been mentioned numerous times in several threads monitored by Stars, they've been discussed at the previous meetings but it seems Stars just don't care about the PLO games.

PS. I'd like to see Do It Right at this meeting as well.

I appreciate the sentiment of Pokerstars at extending this offer, but I also echo the opinion of others who have posted here: Last time players went with a laundry list of concerns and issues and it felt like they returned with those issues largely not addressed.

I would highly recommend that some players on Pokerstars go to this meeting (I personally haven't played on Pokerstars at all this year due to my dissatisfaction with the changes/ineffective player meetings, so I can't really volunteer to go myself) because I do think any information is better than no information, but it's not hard to see, after the (lack of) results from last time, why people aren't nearly as interested in it as before.

The story hasn't really changed since April: Players want lower rake, better game quality, more rewards, and advance notice of game/VIP program changes (with open discussions before changes take place, not after).

Pokerstars assures us they are doing all they can in each of these areas.

Sounds good, maybe ill try to nominate myself as I have played cheeseburger stakes on stars for nearly 8 years now, lol

I went to the IOM for the March meeting. For those of you who do not know, there was not a vote or nominations. It was an invite. I believe that I was invited at the time because I was fairly active in this forum with all the rake discussions and what not.

If you have a passion for poker, are outspoken and intelligent, then I strongly recommend that you step up and go. Sect7G and DiR that means you. Tercet, not so much...

First, it was a great experience. It's a lot easier to understand and appreciate Stars a lil more when you actually get to see things for yourself. They've got a lot of staff. I mean a LOT, all dedicated to making your money safe, the software good and everybody's experience better overall. And of course, to make them more money .

While I was there I was treated very well. Nice hotel, nice restaurants, food and drinks. Catered lunches at the meetings. Unfortunately no hookers and blow. The Stars crew are much less baller and a lot more humble than you'd expect .

The meetings were long from like 7:30am til past 6mp at night I think. A lot of stuff was discussed. Of course not all of it resulted in change. I was the one who first suggested lowering the cost of the cash bonuses in this forum and pushed for that while I was there and that got implemented. It may seem like a small change but it has helped me a lot. No more grinding hyper satellites, so better hourly and my rakeback doesn't take a hit from variance. With less grinders infesting those satellites now they must be a bit softer so recreational players get better value for their FPP's. With softer satellites and more recreational players being able to win seats, I would imagine the Sunday Storm can get a softer field. It was a small change that effected a substantial win for players on multiple levels.

Ever since going, I've had periodic communication with SteveD. If I have a concern, question or suggestion I can email him directly. As a matter of fact, I've been going back and forth with him over an issue that was discussed at the March meeting. So while no changes have been made there YET, the lines of communication are still open. I email the man, and the man gets back to me with an intelligent response. I don't always agree with him, and I know he doesn't always agree with me either but he listens to what I have to say.

My best advice for the people that do end up going would be to do your homework before going. This was something that I was pretty lazy on and I regret. You can't expect Stars to reach into their pockets and hand you money because you strongly believe that they should. Instead, put together a proposal or presentation for them. Show them how your idea could benefit them as well. They are a business, and it is their job to make as much money as possible.

They're a good bunch of people. The employees all seem to enjoy what they're doing. I don't think that a group of people that big could give off that vibe if it weren't real.

I think there has been too much negativity in this forum in the past. Some very intelligent posters waste their efforts being harsh, angry and abrasive. I get that you want change. I get that your rake back took a huge hit and your winrate took a bigger hit because games are not like they once were. If you've got some good ideas, and can back them up with some numbers or sound logic that can show Stars that it is good for them too, then you might change their mind.

I can almost guarantee you that you're not going to get a chance like this with Party or iPoker.

I feel like the direction most good ideas should be taking is the quality of the OLP experience for the recreational player. They are the life blood of the poker economy. Net depositers.

One topic that I hope can get revisited is WTA or Winner Take All. I tried to convince them that it was a good compromise between dealt and weighted contributed. I tried to highlight the the marketability of WTA. Weighted contributed nor dealt has little potential for marketing value but Winner Take All sounds cool and the marketing potential and appeal to recreationals is huge. I was not well prepared when I went to the IOM however and that was something that I brought up off the top of my head. I'd like to see one of the player reps for October address this topic with a little more vigor if possible. It would be great imo if we could get a change to WTA for 2013 or at least a promotion before then as a trial run.

I guess I'll leave it at that. Anybody seriously thinking of going, I strongly recommend it and feel free to shoot me a PM if you have any questions and I'll answer to the best of my ability without breaching my NDA ofc .

Cheers.

oh wow, this would be amazing. I would LOVE to go...we need a female mtt'er to go to this!!!!!

But it is the Isle of Man.

This is such a waste of time, here's what is going to happen.

Community as a whole says lower rake overall, and PLO/SnGs get a drastic change as rake is terrible in them.

Players go over, come back stars fanbois, get nothing but say Stars is doing amazing for us all.

Nothing changes

The PokerStars Player/User Representatives Meeting is like the newspaper story about the singing dog.

The news is not so much that the dog sings well, it is that he can sing at all.

kool Isle of Man don't see like a half bad place. I saw it on House Hunters when some guy got a new job at Pokerstars and he was looking for a apartment there.

http://www.hgtv.com/house-hunters-in...man/index.html

Being a successful online poker player and having worked in the music industry lead to a job offer from the largest online poker site in the world. The only issue is that their headquarters are based on the remote Isle of Man. The Jonat family wants a change in pace but will they be able to find their ace in the hole on a small island? Or will they have to fold? Find out as House Hunters International shuffles into beautiful Isle of Man.

What? No "All-In"?

lol oh is that all...



send IWEARGOGGLES

stars gets it all wrong this year. please announce changes first, next comes the outcry, then the meeting. it's more fun that way around.