This is actually one of the most aggravating parts is that the vast majority of the money owed isn't even winnings, it's money left on the site after the credit setup went away. So someone is literally sitting on this currently, perhaps intending for it to pay other debts.

Brandon's other post is pretty thorough, much more polite than necessary, and speaks for itself.

If you deposit directly to a poker site (outside of an agent) then they should owe you the money when it is time to pay.

Not sure how anyone else should owe this person the money.

I can't say it is 100% case here but with agent sites It can happen. Say you are under the agent that has a ton of losing player. The site/club will just never send the money to the agent just tell him to settle with his winning guy/-s to limit their exposure to the agent debt . I mean for basically every agent site that how it works they never settle with individual players just with their agent.

Thats how it should work btw . For me for all the agent sites I play my agent is responislbe to get me my money. We always set it straight from the beggining (or he let me chose if I want to get bigger % or my funds being guaranteed). The agent is always responisble to get your money (same will bookies and agents). This just looks super weird and just huge **** up and blame game. Agents blame Mania,Mania blames rouge agents in the end bunch of people don't get their money.
So I am super confused why players are to get the money from the site if the site was agent site. It shouldn't be the case.

The one thing it is super obvious for me and where PokerMania guy is telling lies is that the site wasn't allowing agents and credits. Thats how it all works tbh. PokerMania wasn't any different I believe.

I could bet my net worth is that they shame players and agents because they let huge droolers and scummy agents to play on credit to keep the games and rake going. But they just run away when they accumulated more debt that they wanted to settle (or rouge agent took the money from losing players and kept it for him/herself).

Want to clarify when I say "they should pay you" I am referring to the site.

Unless there is some specific scenario where it is predetermined you have to cash out thru the agent.

Not much different then getting burnt by a couple of agents of bookies. Then you can't get action down and the agents give you a direct line straight to the book. The book is paying here 100 zillion % of the time in my experience especially if you deposit some form of currency up front. The only way the book/site does not pay here is if they have no money.

Money deposited from a player to the site should be returned from the site to the player. Period. Any explanation for those funds involving an agent makes no sense.

GraceAce

Historically what site has had the most long term success using this agent pays players model? Seems like a recipe for disaster to me every time I hear about these.

Dollaro network in Italy before it got destroyed by Police as it was owned by mafia.At its peak around 2011-13 they had like 4k people traffic on average and made the Italy the biggest player pool for poker in the world. Now all the Chinese apps Poker Master,PokerFishs,PokerLords etc that are bigger than Pokerstars for cash games. Several skins on gg network work using the same model now.
Majority of the skins on the sketchy IDN network from indonesia that is 2nd in pokerscout rating.

But yeah historically it was always ticking time bomb as they allow recreational players to play on credit so a lot of the money is phantom money.

Thanks for the info. I've actually read through the Dollaro thread here in the past and remember reading about the issues many of the non Italian players had with their agents.

As the payouts continue this week and will for the next 30 days, We are now focusing on trying to collect and recover the money that is owed, or stole from us. This is a list of players in the poker community that their word is no good, or they are common thieves.



Eddie Gravalese- Lynnfield, MA
The owner of PokerBoom who stiffed us for 170k because he felt he should have gotten more rb than the 55% that he agreed to and was receiving.

Tom Furlong- Galena, IL
Gambler who will take shots and not pay if he losses

Brian Moon- Chicago, IL
poker player in the community that prints fake cashiers checks

Brian Saarista- Dubuque, IA
person that will not hold true to anything he says, and will take shots in gambling but never pay his debts.

Cheech Barbaro- Chicago, IL

Cory Pazour- Prairie Du Chien, WI

Nathaniel Fisher- Laveen, AZ

Dan Bacaam- Spencer, IA

Ric Cacho- Ankeny, IA
Very bad person for a very little amount of money. Will not pay any type of debt and will duck and lie entirely

Tony Hintz- Costa Rica
Runs offshore books in Costa Rica and if you win, he will keep the money and not send you the money won from offshore

Bill Slaight, Jr- Dubuque, IA
Once an online professional poker player that taught players, now taking shots on different platforms, trying to get credit, but not paying anything back.



These people are the worst of our industry. For over a year each of these people have lied, ducked, or disappeared. Most have ripped others off since us, and we feel bad that we have not said something sooner.

PokerMania Rep,

As these are potentially legally libellous allegations, please post your own name and address.

Thank you.

Hi all,

Just a quick update on my situation:

I had 24.5k on my Mania balance. Sent lots of mails asking to get my money, and everytime i was told that they were comming soon. One week ago i had enuff and tried to make a deal, so ended up getting 18k back. So Guess i am about 75% happy:-)

Troyboy

yeh sounds like u should have held out for the rest maybe

6 grand is alot of rake to pay

Haha, what a ****show this is. The fact that this site was one of the best options to play online poker for a period of time is insane.

I'm not sure I believe much of anything coming from the PokerroomRep.

I can believe that Brandon deposited up-front and still hasn't seen that money.

Anyone reading this----- Work out a deal with your agent where you're $$$$ is covered no matter what happens between agent/site. This is very relationship based and will probably be hard for most people to find. Try to find the best possible reputation agent you can. Even with that said, **** can still happen and I wouldn't put ultimate faith in that either. Don't use Crackhead Kenny who loves sports betting and is a massive degen as your agent. Don't assume your winnings are part of your current bankroll until they are actually off site. Some of the most trustworthy people that I know in poker are massive agents for every site, you should never use some guy that you barely know of, can't find anything about online, and can't speak to others who have worked with him in the past.

ChicagoJoey

100 % all of this. Finding a good agent on these sites who will cover all balances is extremely important.

Because if you do not then there is always a chance the site or crackhead kenny wind up with your roll

So I had some amount of money on site which I will not disclose at this time. I was told like everyone else that the process would take about 60 days to payout their alleged 4k+ player base. Which is clearly a massively blown up number

I was able to get a small installment of 2k on Christmas Eve, and I was told to leave them be for 3 weeks. So I did that.

I asked for an update for a payout on January 17th. I was told that payouts were halted for 10 days due to the arrest of two players who were requesting payouts. I do not see why payouts would be halted for 10days for this purpose, nor do I have any way to confirm the affiliation of said players to mania. Anyway I was told that payouts would be resuming Monday Jan 22nd. I was also told that I was 9th on the list to be paid. when I asked for a more specific date I was simply told "Febuary". I was unable to get anything more specific. So i asked for another update today, I was told

"You guys are 5th on the list, So it wont be this week."

I asked for another small installment for good will, the response I received is

"You guys are 5th on the list, So it wont be this week."

Yeah the redundancy and clear cut blowoff tone here did piss me off. Thus I am posting

Still, call me crazy but I do expect to be paid in part or in full by the end of February as that is what I was told. I do not expect any further delays and I will be posting here to confirm when I receive payment in full or any installments. I will also be posting what order I am on this "list". If anyone else wants to share their payout order that would be beneficial to all.

I played quite a bit on this site and really enjoyed it. too bad they closed but they were great with getting my account funds back to me

Hey guys 60 days are past and I am still waiting to be paid. Can u give a little feedback who take his money with ""+1"" and who's not with ""-1"". It will be helpful and I will appreciate the feedback. Thank you in advance!

-1. I have still not been paid the money promised within 60 days.

I would like to work out a payment plan and if we did it as a group I think it would work better towards the greater good of all. It would be better for both parties, debtor and debtee (in the event that intent to pay is there)

A. Its transparent, not opaque
B. Feels much better to be paid in small increments than to be paid in no increment and just hope that were not being whamboozled.
C. It Simplifies things for mania as they sort through this mess.

I am owed $13,577. Please post here if interested in coordinating this. It might help to have a few more players in on this working together to create transparency.

After writing off my first agents debt, I am still owed $5,257 from my last agent, and $10k I was asked to deposit out of the blue, right before the site shut down. I believe the site is responsible for this as I was informed the money was left online and used to offset my agents balance with the site.

Chips is owed at least $10k still. I'll post more on this later when I have some free time. I realize terror doesnt have access to PM as a new account, but both of you are welcome to reach out to me through twitter if you'd like @Oscillator_WSOP

Did you have multiple accounts? I'm not asking if you played them at the same time because I assume the answer is no. I just am curious if PM allowed you to have multiple accounts.

They stressed that no such thing was happening on their site...

--
Kahn

Hey Kahn, I wrote a more thorough reply to a deleted post earlier in the thread describing everything pretty detailed in the event you may have missed it. The short answer is I had one screen name under my first agent, and quit playing on the site after I wasnt paid by him.

Probably a month later I was re recruited, and started up with a different screen name. By this point the mixed games had moved to Boom ( I would steer clear from there too ) which I was playing under my first agent, and I played PLO under my last agent on a new account. I honestly have no idea what my first sn was, but I'm not averse to it being shared if Eric remembered it.

I know for a fact at LEAST one guy changed his sn a few times, but it was just so obvious who it was. I dont KNOW of anyone playing with multiple accounts at once, but I have suspicions that it happened based on conversations and first hand experience playing in the games. I'm not saying for sure, but I wouldn't rule it out.

It's been a long few months, and I'm upset with myself for not following up on this thread with more diligence, but I'll try contacting management again soon, and seeing if I have better luck. Right now I think this is all a hot pile of ****, and I'm running out of patience.

Does anyone know if this is the same owner of 64spades? Scotter clark, I read online shut down poker mania and started 64 spades.

Now with the random shutdowns of these poker rooms poker mania, and Jao. I'm just wondering if 64spades can be trusted. Somehow they are using pay pal as a deposit option, but no longer allowed to use debit unless threw pay-pal.

Also upon doing research most of the player base is out of Texas and knows the owner personally. But there base of operation I guess is Costa Rica.

Just trying to be cautious of where I put my money and any info to educate me is appreciated.

This site was never one of the best sites to play on. Maybe like a #7 option for US players.

ROFLROLOLOLOLOLOLOLL

Yes its the same guy. Good to be cautious.