IME the smaller unions like Aces Kracked are super pro laden at 2/4+ and basically just trying to cooler each other or pick off one fish that sits with a buyin. PanAm and Diamond have way more weekend warriors that dump a couple K.

depends what "small union" youre in.
unions like saphire and local unions are way better cash games. but i dont think utg/panam are tough at all, probably slightly better than ignition

I know saphire shares MTTs with diamond union. Do they have different cash games?

Pam am has some hefty buy-ins like 500.00 + to make up for the lack of players. I would never dump that much into 1 online tournament with the huge variance factor.

yes different cash games

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TimStone, a serious question, not meant at all sarcastically, just interested in the answer.

You say there is minimal damage of collusion, because across a decent sample size of players you are aware of, there are good winrates?

Is there anything that can tell you that the pool of players that you are aware of doesn't include colluders, and that it isn't just the colluders that mainly have those good winrates?

Obviously anyone who is colluding isn't going to be telling anyone at all. If we could somehow see the database for every player, then yes, there are going to be the same percentage of big winners/small winners/break even players that there would be on another poker site with similar rake, and unless we knew that those winners definitely weren't colluding, it doesn't tell us anything at all.

Sapphire and diamond are owned by the same person.

well, you rarely can be 100% sure. alot of people i work/ed with i know in real life, some of them very well and others i only know online i work with for years, get referals from them who know them well etc. Might there be the odd colluder every now and then? certainly. can count the instances this happend during the last 4 years on one hand though. as i said in a post before most western regs like to have an edge but 99% of those guys usually draw the line of getting an edge at i don't sit with 3 accounts of myself the same table. also colluders get spottet all the time and then reported so if one of my guys would collude sooner or later i'd be made aware of it because unions and clubs would come after us.
additionally decent amount of guys who want to collude are often quite upfront about it and make it as if it's not a big deal: "just to let you know i plan to play with 2-3 accounts at the same table because everybody does it" is usually the line they trying to justify it with. I decline those offers but yeah some other guys might work with such people

i've seen how regs behave on sites that are colluded. on the peak collusion time on PM you got at least 5 reports daily from different regs complaining about the collusion. On PokerBros I haven't gotten a complaint in months. It will certainly happen as it is happening on any app you need several different accounts for but at this point i still stand by my point that it's very minor and not widespread at least not in the unions i have seen and interacted with

To preface, I am only referring to NLH cash/mtts.

PLO/PLO5 is a totally different animal, and I would proceed with caution in those games on any unregulated site.

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There's a bunch of signs of high amounts collusion in different winrates over a relatively small sample. (100k hands is for sure enough, and that's 1 week of play for a large group of players.)

I am as close to 100% sure as possible the players stats I'm looking at are not colluders, and I just don't see signs of widespread sophisticated collusion like I did on several Chinese apps.


Actually, I have gotten more reports regarding possible sophisticated collusion on Bovada/Ignition lately than the main pokerbros unions.

I am also quite sure there is a blatant softplay from a couple of the US stables/groups of poker friends on global poker. They make it really difficult to prove/report it though.

...Now, am I saying there's no cases on pokerbros of regs sitting on skype, saying "I folded XX here", ...obviously not. Happens on every site, and softplay happens live as well.

This type of cheating has a very small impact on your winrate though. It's really not at all what you should be worried about.

Would add that, if you don't have experience looking in to sophisticated cheating, you probably just wouldn't notice quickly.

It's not so easy.

The main unions ARE actively trying to keep games clean. So dumb stuff like always sitting with X player, and flatting AA, so he can raise small, and you back-raise is just not going to work.

how much of the rb do agents get on big unions like diamond? Before they share with others.

They must be making a killing.

why cant you just cut out the middle man and go straight to the union? so you keep all your rb that you produced?

well technically you can obviously. but you seem to have the misconception that the club you go to will pay you the same rb % what it pays to an agent who has 40-50 guys under him which is quite amusing

did no such thing. so i dont know what you find amusing.

Has there been any follow up to this “news”? I haven’t seen any type of announcement, Are people in those states just going to try to log in at some point and get denied?

Pure example of collusion here, so.i asked him who is the ***** and who's the butch?

No matter the hand i had i refused to play and told him i knew he was both people, no response. You don't need to be a genius to see what was going on, raise, reraise by second account bet in position knowing your other account has the best hand but why not try to hook some suckers

After I fold none stop eventually accounts leave table, so yea this micro i can imagine 1/2 and up.

To have accounts that close probably means agent was in on it and allowed. This was less then a week ago.

Great evidence there

Tbf the id is a valid point

Agree completely

AcesKracked bumhunting situation has gotten so bad.

There are a couple regs who I would love to name publicly who I won't obv who snap leave when an obvious fish does. In Diamond and Pan it's bad but much worse on a small union because the rec players play at higher relative volume and they're more valuable for long term game preservation. Other day I was playing 3/6 holdem and the fish left to play 2/4 PLO. One of the shitregs not only left the 3/6 but snap joined the PLO. I'm far from the best player on there and will play in a game I know I don't have an edge for at least a few rounds after the fish leaves, but for some reason never have to, since most of the regs don't care about long term game quality and only if they have an edge in the game (playing for 20 minutes at -1bb/100 after rake is not gonna kill you guys).

Even had some recreational players complain about it. They for sure notice this toxic behavior.

can anyone tell me how to go about joining a club or union or we its called? Ive bever played app poker before. tx

I wouldn't say agent allowed, that's just guessing from you right?

Speaking for myself you don't see any more data than a weekly report about the game variant you played and the total of win/loss and rake made. There's no table xy played in our reports so hard to see if someone played the same tables with same accounts somehow bypassing the rules/security by whatever tools he used.

Playing on apps is a triangle between players agents and platform to create a safe and healthy environment. I hope so that fishes getting bunhunted have the correct channel to their agents to report them same accs following them, so agents go to their sources/ club owners/union leaders to do something against. But it needs reporting. As long as poker online existed bunhunting existed. It speaks for you speaking up for this, same time we need enough guys reporting it till the point the club says: this guy is banned and if he ever comes back we take his funds and the agent sticks to it.


That ID gap is eyebrow raising

I did say, I have no idea about PLO/PLO5.

I would proceed with caution with those games, on ANY unregulated site.

It's just way harder to police sophisticated collusion, and the impact is many times greater.

Not to give anyone ideas, but you could get a significant edge by overfolding correctly preflop only.

An agent, club, or union with integrity should be all over someone that cheats. I've turned players in, one removed and the other was told no signal of collusion. Only a handful of times they played together and both accounts were fairly old, as far as the club goes.

PLO at Aces Kracked has gone way downhill.

I was gonna play some 2/4 PLO4 (there were 4 full tables going) and noticed the same 2 dudes 300+ BB deep from the same union and same playing style on all 4 tables and decided to peace out. Most tables are 5-6 regs.

Pretty big change from 3 months ago when it was rare to run into a player with a clue at midstakes PLO. I was only able to play about 2 weeks before our club got kicked though.