Poker Refugees Spring News:

• Our former relocation clients norfair18 and bighuni take spots #1 and #3 in the P5s global rankings - congrats to them!
• SCOOP: Again this year, we are booking rentals daily for players looking for a place to grind PokerStars SCOOP
• New Destinations: Coming this summer we will be launching relocation services in SE Asia destinations such as Thailand, Manila (Philippines) and Hong Kong
• WSOP: We are offering various early-bird discounts to players who want to move post-WSOP in July or August 2015 but sign up by June 1. Contact us for details.
• Closing in to 500 relocations! We have relocated 479 poker players to-date from nearly 20 different countries to destinations in over 15 countries worldwide
• New interviews and blog posts up on the Poker Refugees Blog: Jason Thompson (Costa Rica), Elena Stover (Mexico and now Malta) and PR founder Kristin Wilson on the ever-changing environment needs of poker players over the past 4 years http://blog.pokerrefugees.com/

Hello, I've got an impression that the poker expat community in Costa Rica is a lot bigger than the Panamanian one, is it correct? (The size doesn't matter much if there's at least one good grindhouse in Panama or wherever to visit at the daytime.)

Do you think the tax factor is vital in choosing a destination? CR, Panama and Belize (as well as Nicaragua, Uruguay and Paraguay, for that matter) don't tax even residents on overseas income, while the other Latin countries like Mexico, Dominicana (after 3 years of residency) and Ecuador do (unless one can legally qualify as a retiree, but most of us are too young for that), though I've read that the enforcement is very lax in Mexico (just like in Russia so far, fingers crossed).

But with respect to banking, I've read that CR is significantly worse than Panama. (Of particular interest is the capability of receiving transfers from one's own EEA account, preferably as a tourist too.)

It's crucial because different Latin countries speak very different dialects of Spanish and I need to decide between them before I pick a native speaker as a teacher.

(I'm not in a big hurry, just probing opportunities, so don't worry )

Hi there, yes you are correct that we estimate the Costa Rica online poker community to be significantly larger than the one in Panama. The only difference with Costa Rica and Panama compared to Mexico for example (where players are concentrated mostly in Playa del Carmen or Rosarito), is that players are spread out throughout each. In Panama, players end up transiting through places like Panama City, Boquete and Coronado. In Costa Rica, they are primarily in Playas del Coco, Tamarindo, Jaco, and the Central Valley/Escazu/San Jose areas. There are also players living in smaller towns around the country. Most of our players want to be around at least a few other players so we always keep this in consideration when helping them choose where to live (city and actual rental property).

The tax question is a bit complicated because it depends on each country's regulation, the individual's citizenship status, where the money is earned, etc. We are not tax professionals but we do have accountants and CPAs in each country who provide this info to all our clients on a case by case basis. If you are American, you should be filing taxes in the US regardless of where you live in the world. If you are from Europe for instance, there are many countries that allow you to change your actual tax domicile, so you could move to a tax-free country when it comes to poker and register there compared to Spain, for example. This is a pretty widely known, open practice for players from many EU countries where taxes and rake are high. We've helped Spanish and French players move to Mexico/Costa Rica as well as Greek and Swedish players to UK or lower tax destinations like Malta as a few other examples. PM us and we can get more details on your specific situation.


Regarding banking, it depends what your definition of "worst" is. Overall, global legislation has made it more difficult over the years for foreigners (especially Americans) to open offshore accounts so you really have to know what you're doing, especially in Latin America. Hiring someone for help is highly beneficial to save significant time and money and make sure you're using a bank/branch that will serve your needs. In some Central American countries, it could take months of work to get an account opened. In others, the currency might not be a good fit for your needs or it could be virtually impossible to open an account without the right paperwork. Available services and fees vary widely by bank and country as well. You should be able to receive wire transfers regardless but whether you can send or receive remotely via online banking is another consideration.

Regarding Spanish dialects, countries known to have more neutral or "pure" accents are Mexico, CR, Panama and Colombia, amongst others. On the other side of the spectrum, Argentina, Uruguay and Venezuela would have stronger accents. All are different from Spain but if you learn any of them you should be able to communicate with most people. The best way to learn a language is immersion in my opinion! I was able to learn enough Spanish to get by in just a couple months while living with a host family and going to language school full time back in 2002. Your level will increase over the years but if you want to make a lot of progress quickly, immersion is a good way to get to a basic level then build on that. I can communicate fine with people from Barcelona to Peru. Maybe it's akin to investing a lot of hours learning the basics of poker then improving your game over years/decades. There is always room to improve of course

^K

I just sent an email 5 min ago but I realized I had some more questions and also someone could chime in.

Hi!
I want to do 1 month sometime between 15 of july and 27 of august but I cannot decide where to go. I guess thailand is ranked pretty high but south/central america would be cool too. Basically I stopped playing 1 year ago and I am not sure on my profitability anymore so i want to be able to enjoy a long vacation in case getting back to poker proves difficult.

I wouldnt need to get papers etc since it will only be a vacation and I have the accounts etc ready, just a recommendation of a country + way to ensure an apartment with decent wifi.

Hi,

You are right that deciding where to go can be difficult - so many countries, so little time The good news is that if you are going for a short time you can have fun pretty much anywhere. It's not as big of a decision compared to staying somewhere semi-permanently or long term.

This new blog we just wrote may help you out in deciding between a couple of the most popular countries like Thailand and comparable ones. It's called: The best places to play online poker from (part 2 in a series).

http://blog.pokerrefugees.com/2015/0...oker-from.html

There is so much variation in prices, rental properties and wifi in each city and country that it would be irresponsible to make a blanket recommendation, however we can help you on a one-on-one basis in that case. There is satisfactory internet in most of the popular destinations as infrastructure continues to improve and more people are working online. However, if you are staying in a hostel sharing an internet connection with an entire building, your experience will be different compared to having an apartment to yourself with a dedicated modem and high speed connection.

Hope this helps and we will also PM you for more.

^K

Im in the situation where i am moving to Malta and want to bring my non EU wife with me.

The process for me is pretty simple since im a EU citizen, but to bring my wife, i have to comprove that i have a "regular" source of income (just comproving having funds is only enough for me to be able to get residency

Such family members (my wife) are not given an automatic right to live in Malta for they must prove that they are dependant on the applicant. The Maltese Department would request a statement of income to show that you have a stable income to subsist your wife."

Anyone have any experience with this? or any ideas of how this could be done, what comes up in my mind is that if in the past i would have withdraw the same amount of the same day every month that could be considerd a "regular/stable" income, but it a bit to late for that now (but i could obv still start doing that)

I was thinking of moving to Spain until I heard that they only play Pokerstars.es there or something.

Costa rica looks like a good choice instead. Anyone know visa options - is the best choice to go with a tourist visa? Do you have to country jump at 6 month intervals or anything?

PS - clicked on the poker refugees site - definitely some good info

It's true that Spain is a segregated market, however if you're looking for a Spanish speaking or Latin American country to play poker in, the rest of Central/South America are pretty wide open markets.

Costa Rica is a very popular destination for poker players, as is Mexico.

For US or EU citizens, the visa regulations usually grant a stay of between 3-6 months at a time and are usually renewable, meaning that you can exit and re-enter to renew your next 3-6 month visa stay. However the exact rules depend on the country of destination and your country of citizenship.

^K

Hi everyone,

We have been asked by a huge network (think HBO, Netflix, etc) to recruit a professional poker player as a correspondent for an upcoming show/series about gambling. This person would probably be American.

They are looking for someone who is real, has a personality, is deep, serious but has a sense of humor, mature, has stories, has experiences, has traveled for poker or gambling, has had ups and downs, etc etc. Maybe you've quit gambling and then come back to it. Maybe you had problems in the past but overcame them. Maybe it's still a roller coaster.

They are not necessarily looking for someone famous or well known, but who still probably has some sort of following or recognition in the industry (even if it's just on Twitter). Preferably someone who has experience both live and online and maybe with high roller tournaments or high stakes games.

They are not looking for the commercialized, ESPN version of a poker player but the opposite. Not looking for the glitz/glamour or partying scene. This is about real life. Can also be someone who bets sports or fantasy sports for a living.

If you would like to be considered please PM with a message about why you would be a good fit. Also include your real name.

Thank you!

Have you read this PGC? (Here's the official blog of that exciting Frenchman. He has just started season 2 of his bike journey across America, so he might be unavailable if ESPN wants him in the studio instead of video updates on the road, until he actually arrives into the US.)

Hi, next year I'd like to move to Slovenia, do you offer your services for relocating in that country?

Thank you for the contribution! We will check it out and send to the casting director.

^K

At the moment we do not offer services to this country but have heard good things! Will look into it as a future possible destination.

^K

Speaking of, do you have any plans to add the Czech or Slovak Republic; if no, why?

I'm just a bit worried about Hungarian legislation attempts, though they're so silly that they aren't going to be respected by major poker sites in the coming years

They might start cracking down on bank transactions at some point, though, like Russia has started planning this month (though that bill is very unlikely to pass - it's unenforceable - Neteller and Skrill are offshore anyway and it's hard to prove that I'm using Neteller for gambling).

The main reason we don't offer CZ or Slovakia as regular destinations is simply because the demand to move there is much lower compared to many other countries, and there are significant investments, time and resources required for us to launch a new country destination so it's big commitment.

Regarding legislation, we tend not to make any decisions based on speculation. We will take existing legislation into account or new legislation once it's passed and implemented, but if we acted according to the media, rumors and negative buzz reported about every country then we probably wouldn't operate anywhere. Mexico is a good example of that. Many people cancelled their trips to Mexico prematurely based on fears that never came true. We have continued to operate there, business as usual through today. It's always prudent to stay informed on such topics, but we have learned that much can change throughout the process and it can make the most sense to simply wait until things are set in stone so the implications can be fully understood.

When I launched Poker Refugees in 2011, many people told me it was a waste of time because the US was going to legalize poker and Pokerstars would be back soon. Nearly 5 years later, very little has changed Stateside and instead - even more countries internationally have become regulated in similar ways that adversely affect poker pros. The online gaming industry is a volatile and fickle place - players, operators and everyone else must adapt quickly to any changes but we are just careful not to overreact before all the facts are present and reliable. Things are not always what they may seem at first.

^K

No problem, I understand that it's very expensive for you to branch out too much, especially now, when Pokerstars are going to kill Americans' obsession with them by the VIP program change, I feel for you.

Still, I dare ask you (I hope I'm not taking too much of your time as a one-line answer will suffice):

(A quote from April 2015)

Do I take it right that you're no longer planning to expand there? (But if you're still going to start service in Manila Metro, which neighbourhoods and cities would you prefer to place players in? I know the chance of this is small because the time zone and connection options are really bad and it's thus a niche location, mainly for those who 1) wish to retire from online to live poker, 2) aren't permitted to live in the US for the whole year, and 3) are too lazy to learn Spanish )

Hello,

Yes we are still working on these options however the timeline has been delayed. During our beta testing we did uncover some external complications that conflict with the needs of most of our poker players. A few examples are: adverse legislation & regulation, limited travel visas, prohibitive bank requirements, unreliable internet stability and authorities cracking down on tourists who want to extend or renew their visas (or a combination of these). Most of our players want to move for more than 1 month and most poker sites require a commitment of at least 3-4 months to prove residence in a given country. For countries that don't check all the boxes, we may categorize them more as a short term poker vacation destination rather than a long-term relocation solution.

That being said, at a later date we are still planning to launch regular full relocation services to Manila (Makati City and Bonifacio Global City are our recommended or target areas specifically), and a limited service offering to Thailand and HK/Macau which are to be determined.

We started Poker Refugees with 3 locations and currently serve 10 on a regular basis. However, we have relocated players to more than 20 countries upon request (including multiple cities per country) and are always researching new potential destinations. If anyone has a specific location in mind that they want to move to, with enough time we can usually accommodate, so just let us know!

Regarding these aspects you mention:

1) wish to retire from online to live poker, 2) aren't permitted to live in the US for the whole year, and 3) are too lazy to learn Spanish

I don't believe that any of these are particularly applicable factors to any one specific destination (please excuse if I'm misinterpreting this?). 1) Whether your reason for moving relates to online/live poker or not, it's still possible to complete the relocation. 2) US citizens are able to live at home year-round but citizens from other countries of course may have restrictions. Our focus is on moving people to countries other than the US And 3) very few if any of our clients learn fluent Spanish. Some pick it up here and there but in the major towns that we move people to, a growing percentage of locals and businesses are English-speaking so this is very helpful. For anything specific to our relocation services, we have full time translators on staff. Anything is possible and we do always have contacts for language schools or private tutors all around the world for those interested in learning the local language for fun!

^K

Right, it's never easy to satisfy all the needs in the third world, especially with Thai stance on poker and (recently) 'eternal tourists'... GL with overcoming those issues!

Thanks for the info! The choice of those areas is quite natural because they're luxurious by local standards and, as a bonus, close to the main casinos offering poker (technically, those are in the nearby Pasay and Parañaque cities, which are touristy but less urbanised areas, though).

I'm sorry for my confusing text... I was implying that, in terms of live poker action (disregarding online one), the US are considered the best (the winnings are taxed but the rake is reasonable and the game selection is immense), while in the ROW, Costa Rica is probably still better (has softer action) than the Philippines (or Cambodia for that matter), though quick 2+2 search reveals that rake in those countries is more often 10% with high caps than 5% I've got an impression that PLO is more popular in Manila, though.

It's good to know that English is understood well in CR, though it's still embarrassing not to be able to talk with common locals in their mother tongue.

Thanks again for the reply!

This is true; things are certainly not easy. International travel and relocation can be complex to say the least.

You are welcome! That's correct; while much of the Philippines is beautiful, not every island or region is ideal for online poker. We are staying in the most central, urbanized, developed and safest areas.

We primarily focus on helping players play online, but yes many of our clients enjoy partaking in local games and especially tournaments when available such as LAPT or APT. There are also local cash games in most places though the rake can vary.

Agreed that speaking the local language is always a plus but I think that people understand if foreigners only speak English as a common language. Of course everyone is welcome to learn and I'm sure locals appreciate that intention as well.

what about if you are EU citizen and you want to move to Malta? do you have to pay taxes on online poker winnings? is yes how much?

hi there,

PokerRefugees or Sports Refugees seems to be a really go idea. I wondered for a few months already how to Play and live abroad and couldnt figure it out. First of all, I am into sports betting not poker but I read you are also doing that.

I must admit I dont understand a few things. For example I read some Players are hopping around countries. So do they have to open new bank accounts every 3 months when they live in a new Country? and register a new residency with pokerstars every time they relocate every three months ? I just assume registering residency is similar for pokerstars as lets say for pinnacle (sportsbetting). And about the fee of poker or sports refugees, is it a one time fee or a monthly Abonnement ? Thanks

In Mexic and need help setting up, reactivating, my Stars account. Tried several months and had my account frozen, I remember reading about a relocation service but can't find the thread. Anyone in Cabo specifically that can help or point me in the right direction to someone who could. It hasn't been my top priority and I've been lazy but any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks guys.

What is the current requirement of poker stars to set up an account and make deposits? I am not worried about withdrawals as I don't anticipate making any ... if I won enough to make it worthwhile, I could invest more in overseas residency at that time.

So I obviously want to be honest but spend as little money as possible. Canada, or somewhere close to florida would work for me as a location.

In the us iirc before bl friday you could deposit with nothing more than a cc and an name, address.

I see players like mercier and selbst, who are americans and reside in the united states, are allowed to play at pokerstars. Is this an exception they make for people on their payroll?

Why did you delate my post ? People have right to know how you 'helped us'

I'm not sure who you're talking to, but the OP never had the ability to delete posts, and the account has been deactivated. Moderator Mike Haven deleted your post, likely because it was unclear what you were doing and he might have thought you were spamming something. Seems like it would make more sense for you to post your feedback directly in this thread rather than making us go to another thread and find it in the middle of a long post.