An excellent question IMO. Although I think the "there would be no CO" only applies to 3 or 4-handed.

No CO should only apply to 3 handed unless I'm missing something? The CO is the position before the button, and people here have posted 4 handed only filtered samples where they're missing significant CO hands.

Ah right, of course.

Sure, and that's where AE's question could be relevant. If people are filtering for 4 or less, then they'll be including some 3-handed games with no CO, and thus CO numbers will be lower.

My name is Justin and I play under the alias "nostalgicfish" on Party. My main game is 100nl fastforward.

This thread was brought to my attention by a friend who also plays on party. I checked my database and found I am getting substantially fewer IP spots when I play fastforward, costing me hundreds of dollars in EV.

About a month ago, I noticed the "sit out next blinds" button was not working for me. About 30ish percent of the time, when I sat back in, the software would start me in an IP spot or the SB. I believe this bug may be the cause of the discrepancies.

Last week, I contacted my account manager about the sit out next blinds bug providing video evidence. This was the reply from the Party devs:

"Managed to replicate, we've found the root cause and the fix needed. Being done as priority now. Will require changes to server so earliest we can do is 1st week of May if Dev can do it in time."

I have asked my account manager to press the Party devs for a thorough explanation of the exact cause of this bug, and whether it is causing the IP discrepancies. I believe we should give Party the benefit of the doubt but it has some serious questions to answer. The fact that the sit out next blinds button was bugged is egregious and unacceptable. This is something that would never happen on Stars or GG, and in my opinion Party should come out with a public explanation of what exactly is going on.

https://gyazo.com/3f21c0eddc7820f85382680875715070

This month hands FF100

BTN 4301
CO 3867
MP 4046
EP 2162
SB 4553
BB 4464

People should break down their samples to 3 players, 4 players, 5 players and 6 players. Data like that isn't really helpful.

wanna hear a joke?
they are all doing it already. hence this thread is out

No, they aren't - he posted immediately after someone who didn't. He's absolutely right that stats for 3-6 player tables combined aren't especially useful.

But yes, many have, and that's been very helpful.

I have a 140k DB from which always has less CO hands. Winning player fwiw

Welp, I'm never playing on Party.

Do players have legal recourse here?

Would like to see more samples of losing players getting more hands in the CO and Button. Is Party really balancing it out like that? Sure look like a possibility. I freaking hate conspiracies and "the site is rigged" nonsense but this is really really suspicious.

I also can't believe a lack of balance like this wasn't noticed before. Seems way too easy to detect if Party really would do this intentionally. Whole thing is fascinating.

This really needs more attention. These are the only possibilities I think:

1. The software is UNintentionally bugged and all players involved are equally affected; MAYBE multitabling somehow bugs the software, maybe something else. (party fastforward tables are EXTREMELY fast btw when you press fold and theres enough players in the pool, the new hand is legit instant. so I wonder if its this speed that results in the bug where multitablers getting axed, I think it is plausible, if someone who multitables (and gets less BU/CO) wants to test this, and then over a decent sample of 1 tabling all of a sudden theres no issue, then I would feel pretty good to conclude its a multitabling bug (but it still may or may not be intentional on partypoker's part)

2. The software is INtentionally rigged; something like winning players get less profitable positions to reduce winrates. (People saying that if winning players are getting less BU/CO, and losing players getting more = rigged. THIS IS NOT NECESSARILY TRUE. Losing players tend to play 1-2 tables. Winning players tend to play more. So if its a multitabling unintentional bug, then we might get a lot of false positives in that regard.)

3. Tracking software is bugged (this seems very unlikely to me at this point, but its funny to me how many people are clueless how to use PT4 and HEM just to conclude if theres a discrepency , like, cmon guys its not that hard to filter for your hands, pool's hands, 3 handed, etc, and find conclusive discrepancies or not)

4. The software is UNintentionally bugged BUT there are players intentionally exploiting the software bug to get more profitable positions.


For poker's sake, I realllllllllllly hope its not #2, and that this gets fixed. For a site thats supposed to be one of the better, reputable, regulated sites, this would suck. I like to think/guess it is #1 because it would makes sense to me that the extreme speed of folding to new hand = multitablers somehow bugging more to be able to enable this feature (so if this is indeed the bug, maybe fastforward tables slow down a bit if the issue is fixed?) My thought is "theres no way party is that stupid to rig the site IN THIS WAY?", but then again, it is a casino site...


Seems like people have contacted party a while ago, and party has actually responded to this, but the issue still exists? So that concerns me too...

Yeah, I'm still not sure why this doesn't seem possible for anyone to do.

Um, don't know if this makes headline news, but filtered by position, all tables full, for fast fold in my database (just since February, because doing 20k hands this month, have a lot of hands built up since Jan 1st).

There are many more BBs and SBs than BU and CO (though sometimes we are missing out on EP, oh well - that is by date).

I'm leaning that this is a bug, and a hold over from earlier versions, which multiple sites are using as configuration for programming.

The site is Ignition, Bovada, and Bodog.

Is that separating 3-handed, 4-handed, and 5-handed?

I only play when its 6 handed. There is no separation needed here.

I.E. over 40 players, usually 50+ players as listed in lobby.

And, it does not change vs Single table, multi table (which is two per limit).

yes, party has responded to this and they are aware of the issue and have accepted their mistake, but they will still let the games run cause theres no law or regulation in poker even though gambling commissions exist.

I also hope this threads gets more attention maybe trough some partypoker pro ambassador cause people are sweating refunds and theres a high chance party wont refund anyone

Where/when did this happen?

recently, theres no official reply just private stuff.
the refund question is the only sweat here now.
im still amazed games still run though and the bug is still occuring

As mentioned (and I commented last night on a streamers channel) other sites have this issue as wall. Since these were all developed and modified from the original code for Rush Poker (FTP), it is a holdover.

My guess, if there are nefarious motives, is it doesn't matter if winning or losing, over large sample, this produces more rake.

The past few days, will get SB 3 times in a row, followed by BB 2 times. The same happened on Party for the streamer. So, you win a bit, and it is slowly whittled away while they present semi tempting hands for you to call with.

Which I did the other day (BB after BB), and won both hands, lol. HOWEVER, don't usually defend bb with 87o.

There's nothing weird about getting the blinds 5 times in a row. That should happen a few times an hour multitabling zoom if it's perfectly random.

I doubt the algorithm is purely random. When was the last time you saw someone get 5 buttons/COs in a row?

I don't multi table Zone at the moment (study while playing).

So that multiples is happening on different limits, single table, the limits are played one at a time.