You don’t think making the player pool all of a sudden 5x larger will incentivize those looking to make money?

As for 465.075, I know that wsop has interpreted it to mean they shouldn’t allow huds, however upon reading the actual regulation it seems to not apply to huds. I’d like to see a knowledgeable site interpret this law and see what conclusion they come to, as if you actually understand huds it seems to not apply.

Finally, this is not a hud debate. I’m not asking for huds in nv, what I want is written hand histories. Written hh are the safeguard players have against being cheated in the games.

Plus, Nothing is stopping the sites from supplying written hand histories while still maintaining that huds are against tos. Hey, they don’t supply written hh now and people still use huds. The only reason they caught that one guy is cause he was streaming on twitch and showed his hud. He would NEVER have been caught if he didn’t do that. Once again shows that sites are not capable of policing themselves

If you haven’t read the Nevada law I suggest you do: https://www.leg.state.nv.us/NRS/NRS-465.html

I probably don't have the expertise to interpret the actual statute, but I have read exerts and opinions. I do agree it may be very easy for the gaming board to just come out and say yea HUDs don't violate the statute. WSOP might just be playing it safe by interpreting it that way now.

People are prob using HUDs in Nevada now, obviously the one guy was who got reported because of twitch. There is no way to completely stop it, just make it harder to do. I also believe less people do it when they realize they could actually face legal trouble.

I don't have much to say on HHs. I would definitely love them for my own record keeping and if they can be used to significantly to reduce bots and colluders then that's a big plus.

I have been in my own little online poker world the last 3 years with WSOP Nevada and its worked out well for me. Traffic is low but there is enough games to play every night and there are a lot of recreational players on there to enjoy themselves. There will be a lot to work out in regards to HUDs, server loactions, ect. Hopefully a lot has already been worked out behind the scenes before the deal was signed.

It seems like it clearly bans tracking software and that would include huds. It looks like an exception could be made.

HUDs do not analyze the strategy for playing or betting to be used in the game. Again its less about HUD usage, even though they dont do what you think they do, and more about written HH's.

Written HH's are an absolute must, its really not an option to not have them.

Ya huds don’t do any type of analysis of strategy or betting patterns. A software like a gto solver would clearly be against the rules, as that’s a software that analyzes strategies and betting patterns

"It is unlawful for any person to use, possess with the intent to use or assist another person in using or possessing with the intent to use any computerized, electronic, electrical or mechanical device, or any software or hardware, or any combination thereof, which is designed, constructed, altered or programmed to obtain an advantage at playing any game in a licensed gaming establishment"

That seems pretty broad, and its just up to the Gaming board on what they say. I'm assuming so far they have told WSOP it means no HUDs. They could obviously change their stance.

They can also allow anything they want. If they say HUDs are fine they are fine. They could even say Bots are fine. It expressly gives them the ability to approve anything.

ya it's def written super broad.

i mean literally any program could 'give an advantage'

these forums can give players an advantage...google chrome can give players an advantage...a basic calculator can give players an advantage, etc.

WSOP Nevada hasn't had them for 3+ years and the games are just fine. If the argument is Collusion and Bot problems magnify as sites get larger and broader in geographical location of players I'm not sure at what player volume it becomes a real problem. I don't see any mega sites appearing in the US. New Jersey has what, 5 sites. I hope the future of multi state compacts is lots of smaller sites and casinos competing with each other.

Yea I agree, it also doesnt really say programs during play. Studying ICM when your not playing could conceivably fall under the terms of that statute. It will all come down to what the gaming board says can and cannot be used.

Its in your opinion the games are ok, its a fact you cant prove everything is "just fine" bc there are no HH's.

Volume of players in NJ is more than enough to have collusion and or bot problems without written HH's.

Im not really sure what games/stakes or kind of volume you play but id be worried about not having them. The right way is to allow them as they are in NJ, HUD's can be another topic even though they arent the magic dream machine alot of people seem to think they are.

I agree that written hand histories at a minimum are a must. But how the hell do you enforce a HUD ban while allowing them? Are both those things possible?

If the reason HHs are not made available is to curtail HUD use, a compromise would be to make the HHs available after the game/session has completed. There are some HUDs that do not require live HHs, but the major commercial HUDs do.

I just don't see that being a very efficient process. People stop/start sessions within small time frames. I don't think support would want to be bombarded by hand history requests.

It could be automated. Just write them post game instead of during the game.

Again, I’d be completely fine with this.

As for no hand histories preventing hud use: it’s been proven to not be effective. Bovada does this and there are still huds that work on bovada. A player was caught on wsop nv with a hud, and there are definitelubother players every day using huds in Nevada that are not caught.

Bovada/Ignition does have hand histories, which is how people run HUDs, but the HUDs are crippled.

They have anonymous player names, so HUDs are only useful for the current session - you can't track players from session to session.

AFAIK the hand histories are supplied 24 hours after the session and there are no hh being written while you’re actually playing

This is correct, but there a couple programs that make it possible to use a HUD that would show current sessions stats. I believe it does it by screen scraping, not really sure but it does work.

Hi--

New to the forum (and online poker), but not to live tournament poker. I live in NYC and have a borgatapoker account.

Quick question about NJ poker: Do people "commute" to NJ to play? And is there an easy way to do this?

That is, are there any safe venues in NJ, close to NYC (ideally a PATH stop), with reliable, free wifi that allow someone to set up their computer and sit for 4-5 hours to play a tournament? Eg, a Starbucks or upscale hotel in Hoboken or Jersey City?

(I mean, frankly, I'd just want a VPN to spoof a NJ account, but I'm guessing the online poker sites are ahead of this and prevent this?)

As it is, I'll occasionally play a tournament in the hotel lounge at Borgata itself, but whenever I do so, I keep thinking "There's got to be a better way."

Any tested, effective solutions would be appreciated.

Yeah, my mistake, sorry. For some reason I had thought that somewhat limited hand histories were available real time, and then complete ones were downloadable after 24 hours, but apparently I was wrong about that.

That said, it does make running HUDs more difficult in that screen scraping needs to be done (which then I expect would be broken anytime they change the layout, until the third-party software adjusts), and I would think if a site allowed screen name changes, there would be no way to track a player through such changes.

well there's no way to track a player through sn changes now :-)

and yeah, my point was just that just because there are no hh written during the session does not mean that huds are eliminated.

I'll get my coat.

What is the deal with WSOP's rewards system right now? has anyone talked to them?

the newest deposit bonus doesn't show a meter in the top left corner of tables and the rakeback points page returns an error

Hey Everyone, I'm new here. Any good Twitch streams for NJ online poker?