in: milac171 (nl200)

guys listen,
we have to come with an alternative site to play, a site by players for players.
We can all join and make business plan, buy shares and start this.
So whenever we decide to strike we can play on this site, use the money from the rake to
improve the software and add a marketing team for to get recreational players.

They have too much power rightnow and just not playing a few days will not matter for them in the long term. Please send me messages Iwant to set up a team to do this.

^I would invest in this but not willing/nave no time to do any work to make it happen. But i very much support the idea. I also think it needs a separate thread to start with..

Im in starwins 100$ spin

in (nl200-400)
p*****

I agree with this in priniciple but its just not realistic as you're going to have to raise funds, apply for licences etc.

However, if we are going to make Amaya's profits fall we need to move to a different poker network and I don't know what network that should be. Amaya has a 70% monopoly on the poker industry, that's the problem where we don't have as much competition.

In, meteze mid stakes mtts

*****el (hunl50z / hunl100z)

In.
T******* (NL50/NL100)

Will you all be able to resist the lure of the Christmas Advent Calendar bonuses that start on Dec 1?

Im in istack_U5 (sng$7-30) , also will still be playing on party and any other NON AMAYA site possible. Lets let these guys know whats what, cheers

lol

FL**** (PLO 500-5k)

Donger Kim NL1k-NL10k

It honestly saddens me to see these changes, more specifically to the lower stakes players. Cashing out my roll and wont be on for all of December. Hang tough everyone

Right now, there are many different groups of players out there, fighting for the same reason. Here we are trying to unite all these groups together since if we want to achieve anything, we have to be organized. I myself have already signed this open letter and a lot of well-known players did the same (educa-p0ker, Rednaxela747, Epiphany77, MuckeDBoy, ZeeJustin, bigstealer and many many more). Furthermore, the players behind this initiative are also organizing a strike against PokerStars starting 1st January.

more informations here: www.tiltbook.com/weareallin

If you dont like it then dont play there that will force change a temporary strike isnt gonna do much.

+1 with this

Not exactly the most mature sounding open letter. Starting with the

I would have thought it would have been far better to have compiled a much more professional well thought out and rounded critic of the proposed changes.

At the moment it sounds like a kid having a tantrum, and thus unlikely to be taken serious no matter how many or who has clicked a button to agree.

Why don't you produce something that is more up to your high standards? I guess it is just easier to come in and slag off the hard work put in by other people, isn't it?

It was meant as constructive criticism. If you want to get anywhere, having an open letter sounding like it is the outburst of a child is not going to do anything.

Come on be realistic. Do you think starting a letter with that opening statement is a good idea? Is it a good way to convince execs and bean counters that they might be making the wrong decision?

Would you apply for a professional position like that or write a business plan etc? Of course not. You would lay out all the evidence and supporting arguments in the proper way.

I am a nobody. What I would say is the likes of Galfond, Sauce, Ansky have all voiced clear and informed reasons why Stars changes are bad for the players, the game, and ultimately for Stars.

In the leaked IM conversation with DNeg, he again asked for very clear specific reasons why these changes were bad that he could take direct to the upper management. He was of the opinion that was the only real way to make Stars change their mind on any of this.

Unfortunately the players involved in that chat were unable to convey the required information, but to be fair to them it sounded like they were put on the spot to come up with something then and there.

Any open letter needs to summarise what many bright people on the various 2+2 threads have identified as issues for all those involved. It needs to do this without simply sounding like a diatribe against Stars (however much frustration you, me and most of the poker community has at what Stars is proposing).

In
QaizAfghan (HS MTTS)

There are different approaches to this, does not mean that because you do one thing you can't do something else as well. Just saying something that can't be changed anymore is **** is not at all constructive. While I did not contribute much to it, I know that A LOT of people across different games and stakes had several discussions and this is the best compromise that they came up with and I think it is great for what is trying to achieve. It is cool that you disagree but if you want to try your best to reverse the changes then just slagging it off now does not achieve anything whatsoever. On the other side if you can write a letter that can clearly communicate why the changes are bad than I am happy to support it and so will a lot of other well known (and less well known) regs. Let me know if you are up for it rather than making fun of people who spent hours and hours doing something for good of all of us.

I haven't said that at all. I was saying that trying to alter the view of a multinational public listed company requires IMO an approach that is more professional. I am certainly not saying these changes won't be reverse, or at least modified, just I don't believe your current approach will make any difference.

Again, you appear to think I am making fun, which I wasn't. I was deadly serious.

Again your posts can be interpreted as aggressive, like the letter. You might not like somebody pointing out that your open letter isn't very professional, people might have put hours into forming it, but that is the truth in my humble opinion.

I am pretty sure (from personal experience) that the bean counters / execs at Amaya will just close their ears, in fact it might hardened their take on things.

Obviously I am aware of who you are, and your standing in the game, and that there other well known players who have put their name to this. That is a positive that so many of good standing are willing to do something, but it needs to be the right thing.

I am not professionally qualified in these matters, but have personal connection with individuals, who have been involved in for instance reversing bad government policy. Having heard how they have achieved this, it has nothing to do with twitter or facebook campaigns etc, it always has come down to presenting evidence and argument direct to the relevant official in a way they relate to.

What it requires is a professional to craft the correct response, present the evidence in a way that the Amaya / Stars management relate to, etc.

I think the fact the actual letter is written professionally makes up for the poor title. It's a nice set-up.

in

I respectfully disagree. It reads as a mixture of hey you at Stars, you have been giving it the PR bull****, which we are calling you out on, and now we are threatening to take action.

Nowhere does it clear outline why these changes are bad for the game, the player and ultimately Stars. Stars management already know what the changes are and have formed some sort of business logic of why they are right for Stars. They need to be convinced why it is wrong, without aggressively "calling them" out.

A good recent example is a good friend of mine was instrumental in getting some government budget cuts reversed. The way they did it was ultimately to show that the logic used to predict that x amount of savings would result was flawed, because new extra costs would be incurred. Screaming about how unfair these cuts would have been on certain people was on no interest to the department involved.

We are all frustrated at the way Stars have conducted themselves, and the changes are bad for the game, but I believe the only way to change minds is to present a compelling case. I would suggest that rake increases were reversed last time as it was shown to Stars how even some of the most successful players in certain games, including one of their own sponsored pros, would become a loser overnight.

I think this time they probably know they are killing SnG's, but the affects of their changes are a lot wider than killing the RB for the SnG multi-SNE ultra grinders.