getting the software and stuff is the easy part i have found out after some research.

the problem is getting players ... esp since i am not a rich and famous poker player at this time / yet.

any ideas?

I have played poker over 12 years as my only income and i have a drive to do this because I think rake fees are too high on average and i belive a site could over time take off. so i want to make a site someday that will give rake at like 1% pot fee or a small daily fee to play. I know many of you think it won't work but it def would and could over time just like Craigslist did.

for example look at Craigslist.. they did not advertise but over time became the go to site for many people on things.

If you're in the US, forget it. Most networks won't take you as an affiliate skin, either. We looked into getting our own skin and buying an existing network. I'm covered offshore, but if you're not you are flirting with disaster.

What makes you the genius that will make it work when others couldn't?

Well not saying it will work for sure but i bought the software last night

and ready to go ...

To me i dont care its a fun hobby , and one i'm passionate about because i think paying global 100 to 200 a day!! is just ridiculous. So i dont care if it does not work in long run i'm going to try anyways... as i have an anger inside me that over paying high rake fees. I man geesh i've paid prob at least 70,000 in rake fees over the years if not more.

So i'm in this for the long haul. It costs nothing to run my site since i bought the poker software for it at this point.

Also i decided to offer rake free poker as a promotion right now, no player pool, til i get a player pool which i think is legal in usa ..
and once i get a player pool will charge a small daily fee /; 2 bucks for low stakes players. maybe 5 for higher stakes player if my site did get some traction someday... think thats legal too.

I have some local friends that signed up already with me so thats kind of fun..
we are going to have a few online home games at least if anything for a few bucks.

You have a few things going for you:

- You don't care
- You are motivated by inside anger
- Your player pool cannot decrease
- I cannot lose any money on this venture


Update us in a year or so with your progress, and the good part is that if somehow you get somewhere then maybe people will be posting "one time" hopes in a thread about your site like they have with Phil Galfond's theoretical site for years, which has another Q1 release date coming soon.

If it goes nowhere, then nobody here will remember anyway, so it is a freeroll (in the theme of zero rake) for you. You should also research whether you can write off what you will lose on this (safely assume your full investment) for tax planning purposes.

All the best.

I would seriously consider speaking with an attorney about what you wrote here. You would be violating a handful or state and federal laws, if you're in the U.S.

You really need to become familiar with the laws and boundaries you will be crossing. There are very serious consequences with what you state.

What you are saying is likely true, but also realistically the odds this person ever generates a dollar of actual rake is pretty much 0. He did the equivalent of buying into something with dreams of what could be possible, when the only real outcome is $0 income. Essentially, it is a variant of when people buy into an Amway type structure and then realize months later that they will make nothing from it, so they shrug and move on to the next investment they lose 100% in.

Point is, I would be surprised if anyone broke down his door because he has software that will make nothing from anybody, and we will never hear from him again after a few days (if that), so if this makes him happy for a short while for whatever reason - good for him. Made the people who sold him the software even happier. They actually made money.

Yes Mont,
I think u summed up the situation about right.
I have nothing to lose but the cost of the software basically i bought that runs the games.

yes u summed up the situation well bro

Well i look at this long term.
I'm sure in about 2 to 5 years or whatnot i can at least have some local players playing with me .. and a few others that like the idea of at least somebody in the poker world trying to start something like this for us.

I tell people too. only deposit like five to ten bucks with me for now.
That way they dont have to be like all super worried that i'm going run off with their
money.

I decided to set up some 3 dollar daily freerolls which since no players on my site ..
kind of a great freeroll.
most freerolls u do the math and they are giving each player a penny or less as a buy in.

It def would...care to show your work?

Oh, I see...so, not so def after all.

The fact that this comparison makes any sense to you shows that you have no idea what you're talking about.

How much should it cost?

How much should you have paid?

I'd ask about your costs to maintain the site, handle problems, detect cheaters, and other countless things, but since you've said this is a hobby, I guess you're prepared to sink a tonne of hours into this for free. I am curious as to how you're going to host a commercial site for free as it continues to grow, and how you will process transactions for free. And speaking of transactions, your hobby is going to get expensive if people hear about your site and start defrauding you.

Perhaps before you sink even more money into this hobby of yours, you should actually find out what is and isn't legal.

There are lots of ways to play with local friends that wouldn't require you to go to all this trouble.

It seems like your marketing plan right now consists of starting this thread with the hopes that some other people with a general "rake is too high" complaint will PM you wondering how they can send their money to a complete stranger so they can play poker on your site where they have no way of knowing if they are being cheated or not. They won't. And that's the only reason I haven't deleted this thread yet, but it likely will be closed or deleted eventually. Not that spam is OK if it's not likely to be effective, but this thread may at least provide for some entertainment and/or interesting discussion for the time being.

'

Well i think its only illegal if i charge rake.
If i was to charge a daily club fee or no rake .. i think thats legal.

As for now i'm sure the cops could care less anyways..
i mean if i actually got a following someday then i might have to move to costa rica or something. lol

Yeah, hard to see how this plan could go wrong.

How much less could they care, by the way? For your sake, hopefully not much less.

Bobo u are not a dumb guy.

The bottom line is I think rake is too high personally and i'd like to see somebody try to start a lower raking site. I wish BenCb or somebody with a name would buy the software I bought , its not that much, and i'd support it. I have written to bencb and dough polk and other about hey buy the software and start a small site word of mouth.
Yes they have a name and some trust in the community and of course i dont as i'm some noob on here etc.. agreed.

Yeh of course it would be nice to get a few players thru here admittedly but i know u guys of course no free advertising here.

Like i said to me its a fun hobby and i enjoy it .. and i look at the cost i paid to get the poker software as rake in a way.. i'll just add it into the 70 grand i've paid over the years.. no big sweat.

The cost to run the poker site after getting the software is literally 0 btw..
it runs on my computer for free 24/7 at this point btw.

The cards come to my site encrypted from the company i bought my poker software also.
They run the actual server.
I cannot cheat , see the cards myself, or anything like that also.

Honestly i'd pay something on here to advertise but the fees are prob too much for me to afford at this time.
also u prob would not let me because u dont know me i'm assuming which is logical also.


As far as deposits.. why not use bitcoin or paypal .. i mean fees on there are very low.
since my site is so dang cheap .. i'd ask people to prob cover the fees for me they want to play .. this site to get going obviously would need players that just belive in an idea like this and willing to throw five bucks on it and let it ride as they say and trust i'm going to pay up.
Local players around me that i know that might like to play in the games obviously can pay me a few bucks when i see them in live games, etc.

You could be in violation of awarding something of value across state lines, for one. Terms, fiduciary responsibilities, purpose of software could create intent, customer data, what is the purpose of collecting monies, can they win their own money back, to name a few of the issues. Then there is the big ones like RICO laws, UIEGA, lottery/sweepstakes, blue skying in every state you have a player, etc....

Just create your own room on one of the many poker apps and invite friends. Operating anything that the government feels is an illegal enterprise opens you up to RICO statutes. The fact that you may not even be violating any of the laws is irrelevant if/when they come after you. The expense in proving innocence is massive. You very well could fly under the radar. The only issue you have is if you get caught. The potential upside pales in comparison to the weight if the downside.

At the very least, incorporate in an off-shore country for some protection. It's only $10K or so for Belize or Dominica. If the software is viewed as the sole purpose is to enabling an illegal activity here, the mere possession of it is illegal.

You bring up some good points...
did you see the guy with who ran Seals with clubs though?
he made hundreds of thousands i belive and when it was over he only got a few midemeanors.

In my case i'd not make as much though if i had same player pool he had etc though because i'm not in this to charge full rake.. I truly just love the idea of people playing at a place thats low cost for us. I mean yes someday be nice to make something but i dont want to charge regular rake. I"d like my site long term to be at least around 80% off the normal rake charged at mainstream sites.

His story is a little different. He operated a crypto site in a state that had control over poker/online gambling in it, years ago in crypto life. If he tried that today, he would never get something as light as that, hence being offshore. Plus, being able to pay a lot of money to the right attorney is advantageous.

You handle this idea how you like. I'm just telling you we explored buying an operating network, opening a new one, and creating our own skin on an existing one. We are fully protected as off-shore investors, but that ends once I/we are no longer passive. I was told outright that if I was under investigation and phone's/emails were monitored, the slightest decision would put me at direct risk. That includes as little as marketing activity. At the very least, spend a couple of bucks on an attorney that specializes in the field so you know what you're getting yourself into. The odds are you would never become much of anything and be allowed to self-implode as a business. The problem comes in when that isn't the case. Some new boot with a L.E. agency looking to make a name for themselves will be very happy to give you unwanted PR. By PR I mean, small blurb in your local newspaper for being arrested and indicted with running an illegal operation. Seek legal advice, your ambition and desire to do something that players may like is not going to be an asset if the **** hits the fan

(english is not my first language)

My plan for a low-rake pokersite would be this:

- Get some big investors behind the plan, because it will cost some big investments. (legal for example and financiel infrastructure)

- Get some big poker celerbities and other members of the community behind the plan. Even better, get them as investors.

- Buy the play-money-game GOP3, which has millions of players.

- Set up a real-money-game attached to that game.

- Start slow with offering just a few sort of games to keep the player pool together on the same tables.

I think that then you will have a new low-rake poker site with a good player base.

Threads like this, which often allow others to share their business plan concepts, demonstrate that the Underpants Gnomes had a relatively good strategic plan.

If you have not already, I recommend reading Poker Tilt by Dutch Boyd. He describes some problems that many do not think about.

How much did you pay for the software?
How many players could play on your site from your home computer without problems?

I feel like i should jump in here. I am never against another site and i play on many different ones myself. Running a site i remember back in the day i used to say it would be so easy etc. There are so many hidden costs that you wouldnt think about or havent thought about yet.
Here are a few to even get started.
1. Processing fees.
2. Promo/freeroll to get recs interested
3. (no trolling) Security team

There are many, many more but it really isnt as easy as just buying a software and running a site.

Good luck if you do manage to work it out

I will resist the temptation since you were kind enough to offer up some solid insights.

OP you say deposit are easy!!! Obviously they are easy but what about payouts?!!! Can we trust you and the way you will handle all players balances?

Phil Galfond must be ****ting in his pants.