well the superuser strategy described sounded pretty bizarre. maybe he's figured out how to exploit it!

I played on Pitbull wow..it was years ago when I first got into online poker....anyway..they gave me a free $10 and I even felt it was shady then.

The fact that there are a few low post count PB shills coming in here and trying to counter OP makes me think there might be something to this. That 6 2 hand gave me chills of the when the UB/AP thing started to unravel. You don't even see this at 2NL.

ruh roh

I'm pretty sure not everyone he faced was a superuser. If he only played against a suspected superuser every time he plays, they will be very easily caught.

If that blows your mind, I'm not sure how you make it through the day.

Obviously OP didn't play heads up with a super user every day for his entire career on PBP. The OP could have played 9 handed, with 1 super user and 8 other people who he could beat. Also, the (alleged) super user probably wasn't a complete idiot (although making those hero calls is pretty obvious), and tried to play against different opponents to not appear so obvious.

I honestly don't know how anyone with a super user account could be so dumb. If I had one of these I'd never get caught. Play lower stakes, move around, play some MTT's for gods sake (but not a 10k one like the morons from AP/UB).

This is bs, in December I sent Dave all the details of the players I suspected with the relevant dates and this is the email I got in reply which shows he did no investigation at all. The other interesting thing is that he says it's no problem to send me the hand histories in a file (although I still don't have them after 6 months of reminding him once a month) but now suddenly it's too much work when this should be no 1 priority for the site in order to clear it's name.

Hi Brent,

I am pleased to meet you, my name is Dave Brenes and I help Jordan and the guys running the operations here. Jordan asked me to look after your case as I normally look on these sort of issues and I am more familiar with the situation.

Regarding your last email, I can understand how frustrating it could be when players don’t make sense on their play (I play poker myself too), yet the members you mentioned would not have been able to do such a thing as hacking into our system and into our database to collect such information. Our security double key encrypted system cannot be bypassed, plus the internal password is updated constantly and we run a system check for every query made to the server. In no case the game can be accessed and, furthermore, cannot display on screen the cards of the other players.

Additionally, your request to obtain the hand histories of the involved players cannot be fulfilled. It would be a violation to our Privacy Agreement, in which we commit to respect every player’s right to keep their cards unknown, and such agreement applies to all members of our poker room including you. To maintain the integrity of our game and our company we must respect the privacy of the players and if they did not show their cards at any moment we cannot, under any circumstance, display them publicly to any third party. We can only send you the hand history of your play with your cards and the cards that were shown either by decision of the player or in the showdown.

Rest assured that the players you mentioned and any other do not have the capability to access our servers and see such sensitive information.

Feel free to contact us if you need anything else. Thank you.


Regards,

Dave Brenes

Network Manager

Pitbull Gaming

www.pitbullgaming.com

Phone: (514) 907.9324

Skype: dave.brenes

As a poker player and a programmer, Id absolutely never play on a site where they claim they cannot query their databases for hand histories. If they cannot do something that simple to clean their name up, what more can you expect from the security aspect?

Anyways Ive been looking for smaller sites to sign up for bonuses, clearly this is out of the list. At least until the people responsible man up and give up the info.

Seriously...

Guys,

This thread is getting out of proportion.

Let me clarify something once and for all:

The reasoning I gave you for the small sites like ours not needing a superuser was a reference to AP/UB, it clearly got misunderstood and now you all are making assumptions and thinking and I am trying to mislead you. I was merely making an example, as it seems my explanation was not followed through I don't think I can provide you a secondary explanation that will not make you try to find the "catch". So I will just say this: Our site, first instance, does not allows super user accounts because of the coding we established, I cannot show you the code to prove such accounts are not part of it because it is in a programming language 90% of the people here won't understand (including me) and also because we can't show the core of our coding for everyone to see and expose our system integrity.

Second, we don’t encourage, don’t like and do not support practices that are illegal and shady, we do not have the traffic many sites do, and we don’t make money like FTP or PS or UB/AP, but we are not greedy money-craving thieves that want to take advantage of the traffic we generate because it makes no sense to us, we are not bandits, we are honest people trying to make a living. We have issues like many poker rooms have had, and we everything we can to bring solutions as fast and as effective as we can. We can’t reach certain levels of quality yet, but we are intending to reach them eventually and because of such projections we do not believe that abusing of our players will help, in fact it will only destroy us. Superuser accounts are disgusting and we feel pretty upset that we are target of such accusations, we find that offensive.

We have tried to cool things off and maintain a level of serenity with you all. We understand a forum is a public venue where everyone gets to say what they feel whether they can back it up or not, but for us is also a venue to reach players more often, to be open to every comment, suggestion or doubt people could have about our product and services. And to all of them we respond to the best of our capabilities, but unfortunately not everyone can be pleased the same and always, and that’s a reality we all have to face.

Chesterboy is running a campaign against us, using his fellow mates and this forum to force doing what he wants, as he stated previously. I wish things were resolved amicably and there was a higher degree of communication and understanding but it seems many refuse to follow such way and choose to believe what the rest is saying. We are not lying about the work it represents for us to send 1000 HHs in the format requested, we are terribly sorry if our technology is not up to the expectations of the people here, but we design the software in a different way, even I personally cannot see hands in such format from my admin system, I also see the same graphic end and one by one. Whether it is a good or bad technology to review hands it has nothing to do with us hiding or ignoring or lying about it. We simply cannot take the time to send HHs by the hundreds and thousands to our players; this is why we put the feature to get your hand histories from the game.

I understand when you say that I am not qualified to review the hands with our Fraud department because it would be convenient; however you also need to consider the following:

1. Chesterboy is not anywhere more qualified than us as he is also involved in the issue and we would not be treated fairly if he was the one to review the hands along with his friends. And unlike Chester assumed, I do know how to spot collusion at the tables, I have spent long hours in the past reviewing hand histories at previous places and have done pretty good.
2. We cannot show the full hand history because we cannot show the hole cards of the other players, so the analysis would be biased and would not serve the purpose.
3. If we send once 1000 hands to one player it means we would have to send those amounts of hands to any player that request them at any time, otherwise it wouldn’t be fair and we cannot comply with such requests because our DB would get overloaded and we can’t let that happen.

Ultimately, we have the best intentions, and we feel we have not been unreasonable and we have not been abusive with any of our players or partners in any way to be in the spotlight and subject to so many insults and mistreatments as you have displayed here. Everyone is entitled to its opinion, but it is different when you take opportunity to smash down the name and the people of a place you don’t even know.

Thank you all.

Regards,

Dave Brenes
Network Manager
Pitbull Poker
Pitbull Partners

[]slander

I make up my winning stats and pay hudge taxes on them just for barging rights too, lots of losing players do this imo

Also if the poker site were based in the US, OP wouldn't be the one with the legal problems lol

If you are so sure about the integrity of the site, surely its worth whatever time it takes to prove it, if it can be done by a programmer, pay one. Otherwise it seems to me you won't have much of a business left. UB and AP only survived because of the huge numbers of people playing there. As a site which seems to already have financial difficulties, you are screwed if you don't resolve this one way or the other.

Ok i dont play at PB but i can promise i never will with this crap going on,

Cant review hands,,,,,,,,

[x] Ultimate Bet in the making

Dave 1000 hands may not in fact be necessary. Even 200 hands should be enough to see if they are playing honestly. At this point I would actually take the time required to retrieve 100 odd hands from your website but the hands are now no longer there. Is there another location I can get them from? Surely retrieving 200 hands won't take too long? In the 6 months of our correspondence you indicated getting me the hands wouldn't be a problem even if you had a new excuse every month, yet suddenly it is??

This is a ridiculous reply of no value...This reply alone is enough of a reason why no one should EVER play on your site...Every reply you give and constant refusal to provide the HHs makes OPs claim more and more believable and also that it is an "inside" job....The "technical" and "privacy" excuses are pure BS...

wonder will 60 minutes do another show?

no. it means u have to send 1k hands out once and keep telling everybody else that it's too hard. only good things can come from it too:

1.either it turns out the guys just been running well

2.u catch a superuser. now that's obviously nothing you hope to find, but i'm sure u would want to know that those excist, so u can get rid of them

I hope not...If PitBull continue to refuse the HH request I can easily see this ending PitBull esp considering how small they are and PB's reliance on props...After this who would even prop for them...

Good enough for me...I think

Ive never tryed pbp and i dont think i will untill this gets resolved.
Good luck

I got pointed to this thread and just finished reading it.

If someone sends me the hand histories in some vaguely readable format (including graphical), I will take some time and look at them.

I do obviously have a third or fourth-hand stake in the outcome, but not one that would compromise my integrity. In addition, I can assure you that I have never played nor probably will play at Pitbull Poker (too small + no big MTT's = no point depositing) and will therefore have no idea who any of these people/accounts are or gain any advantage from reviewing the hands. Finally, in the past, I have been able to determine a superuser was at work without ever looking at hands that were not shown down, although seeing everyone's cards would of course be preferable.

I will, of course, keep the hands confidential if my offer is accepted and will simply post my findings.

Hi Dave,

I am sorry too that it has become this sort of discussion. I warned you in our pm's that I was going to do this if pitbull didn't become more cooperative and you told me very clearly that I was simply out of luck, that you can't help me and don't plan to try.

1. I agree. Lets get the hands out there and let some skilled and unbiased players evaluate them.

2. We don't need to see the other players cards. Just normal hand histories will be quite sufficient.

Which is it Dave?!

Incidentally, this is a completely standard line that bad players take all the time and proves exactly nothing other than "the site is super soft but you probably shouldn't open 95o"

I agree, that is why we need more than just single hands here and there. I have never faced opponents that can make this sort of play with perfect accuracy before. Quite frankly I can't remember them ever making these plays when they didn't have me beat.

Call me captain obvious: The DB Manager and other programmer both abruptly quit after months of pestering from Dave to review hand history in reguards to alleged cheating. Suspects??

also, PBDeepThroat and that johns1124 guy are the same person and have now obviously been banned

Wow, just f***ing wow at pbdave's reply ITT. Is this dude for real? If he is, he has got to be one of the dumbest people around. Until today I haven't even herd of PBP, after reading dave's post it's CLEAR that this poker site is SHADY as hell.

To the rest of the viewers and participants in this thread, in all fairness to this dummy dave, he is simply too dumb for those who are likely to be super-using to let him into the loop. So it's quite possible that he actually belives that his site is fair and has no superusers.

come'on dave, get real! You claim that your code does not allow for superusers and yet you yourself proclaim that you have no technical aptitude or education to decipher the programing code. So how the F*** do you know that superuser capabilities are not possible?