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Old 07-27-2011, 12:16 PM   #1
aardweasel
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Huge iPoker Bot Ring

My theory is that while some sites have the occasional bot, micro stakes nlhe at ipoker is absolutely infested.

The bots often seem to have a number in their name, usually somewhere between 1-100 and follow the format name91 or name82name (although not always). They are at the tables constantly (huge sessions) and a comparison of their PTR graphs shows similar winrates and swings. It seems a large amount of the bots have been running specifically since May this year. It seems if you join any 2nl or 5nl table (haven't scouted 10nl yet) you will run into at least 2 of these guys on average.

Log of my observations to date -

1 I sit down at a 2nl table, I usually play higher but want to try out a new aggressive strategy. I notice I am being 3bet a lot in late position battles and start throwing in light 4bets. The consistency with which several players are 3bet/folding (with exactly the same size 3bet)is alarming. Easy game.

2 I notice that my 3bets are being 4bet to exactly the same size by the same group of players (round about 2.5x). I'm sitting deep so I begin 5bet bluffing small. Once again the consistency with which people are 4bet/folding in late position battles is alarming. In my experience 4bet bluffs are rare at 2nl, and I've never seen such relentless 4bet/folding especially not to exactly the same size with 100% frequency by quite a large group of players.

3 It becomes apparent that these players have an extremely tight 4bet/call range presumably looking something like KK+, AK. I get glimpses of 3bet-bluff range which includes hands like Q4s and presumably other suited hi-cards. Bots seem to generally be fireing off a cbet bluff in 3bet pots and giving up on hands below a certain strength. In single raised pots bots seem to be sometimes taking check/call lines on flop or turn with made hands such as TPGK.

4 I commence relentlessly 3betting/4betting every single bot I can find with any 2. The light 3/4/bets happen any time 2 of BU,SB,BB (i.e late position battles) are involved. Bot 4bets from CO,UTG,MP always seem to be value range that is getting reshipped so I 3bet/fold vs these positions. Mmm, profit.

5 I notice that my BU opens are no longer being 3bet so light. What irks me is that NONE of the bots seem to be 3betting me light all of a sudden, not just the ones with history vs me. I notice my CO opens are now being 3bet light instead. I begin 4betting relentlessly vs these and making profit.
As for my BU opens it seems they are now only being 3bet with premiums. Bot players begin rarely 3betting and then 5bet shoving with a very high %. As you can imagine 4betting with 100% frequency vs a premium 3bet-value range is suicide. (Another telltale pattern these bots have; even when sitting over 200bb deep, 5bet is ALWAYS an allin)

6 At least....I assumed I was only being 5bet shoved on with premiums. Earlier today I caught a glimpse of that 5bet shoving range and now it apparently includes things like 99 and AQ. The complete range could easily be something like 77+,AJo+. Yet I'm convinced that initially I was only being 5bet with KK,AA so some serious adjusting has been taking place. The really suspicious thing seems to be that every single player I suspect of being a bot is adjusting in the same way at the same time. I might not play against one player at all who I presume to be a bot (name follows pattern); yet rather than that bot starting at level 1 vs me, it immediately starts playing vs me with a wide 5bet range.

This suggests to me that not only are these bots from the same source, but they are making decisions based on statistics stored in a centralised database. What I initially assumed where highly exploitable drones who 3bet/fold with a ridiculously high %, are apparently FAR more sophisticated.

I'm convinced if I continue to take observations I can continue exploiting these bots in the long-term. However, it certainly isn't easier than playing vs a random 2nl donk. And just because they are beatable does that really mean it's fair? The real fish are likely being crushed by these bots; and unless the site specifically allows bots, the bottom line is that it is cheating.

After a quick google search I already came across one site offering an ipoker bot for sale, going under the name ipokerrobot. It could well be these bots are from here, although I have nothing to back this up with. I've never seen a bot infestation this bad at any network. As I said, I've run across the occasional player I suspect to be a bot......but what I've seen so far at ipoker, is ridiculous.

I have a suspicion that ipoker know they are bot infested, but don't care. After all, bots are GREAT at generating rake. I'd love to be proven wrong here; but.....well......join the microstakes ipoker tables and you will see.
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Old 07-27-2011, 12:21 PM   #2
mdroz247
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Re: Huge Ipoker Bot Ring

Lol
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Old 07-27-2011, 12:46 PM   #3
mhj75
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Re: Huge Ipoker Bot Ring

I just googled the name he mentioned and lo and behold it is true that there is a site out there offering these bots. However, you have to download a .exe file to get one. I wonder what happens when you download this .exe file? Is it

a) you get an amazing piece of software that will make you loads of money without requiring any effort

or b) you get infested with spyware, trojans and viruses.
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Old 07-27-2011, 12:53 PM   #4
aardweasel
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Re: Huge Ipoker Bot Ring

I have no evidence to suggest the named bot software is related in any way.

I just noticed that it was one of the main results when I ran a quick google search for ipoker bots and included it in the thread amongst my other findings.

Obviously I do not recommend you run any .exe file unless you know what you are doing security-wise.
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Old 07-27-2011, 01:02 PM   #5
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Re: Huge Ipoker Bot Ring

Why not out some user IDs?
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Old 07-27-2011, 01:13 PM   #6
aardweasel
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Re: Huge Ipoker Bot Ring

Quote:
Originally Posted by Punker View Post
Why not out some user IDs?
I could, but don't see what it will achieve just yet; also don't wish to make a mistake and blacklist a legit player by accident.

There must be 20 or more I have uncovered in the last few days. If you know what to look for it's pretty obvious who is one of these bots. If you read the log I give in the first thread you should have a reasonable idea what to look for. The biggest tell is that while they are capable of adjusting ranges they don't adjust relative bet-sizing, and this bet-sizing is a constant from bot to bot.

The bot : human ratio is absolutely obscene, and it doesn't surprise me too much if ipoker didn't care, because if they ousted every one of these bots they would lose a significant proportion of their microstakes playerbase.
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Old 07-27-2011, 01:18 PM   #7
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Re: Huge Ipoker Bot Ring

sorry computer noob, one of my poker sites is .exe. Is this a problem?

Its on the merge network btw
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Old 07-27-2011, 01:19 PM   #8
aardweasel
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Re: Huge Ipoker Bot Ring

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sorry computer noob, one of my poker sites is .exe. Is this a problem?

Its on the merge network btw
No, you are fine. You should just be careful running .exe files from people/sites you don't trust.
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Old 07-27-2011, 01:37 PM   #9
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Re: Huge Ipoker Bot Ring

Ive been playing NL20 6max on Ipoker and i have a list of about 25, all big losing players, all playing a stupidly large amount of hands. Strangely none of the ones i have on the list, even though they play so many hands, never play at the same tables as each other.

All play in a very robotic style with identical bet sizes and according to PTR all their stats are near identical within a % or two over very large samples.

Most of the bots will be the xxshankybotxx that got banned from Full Tilt i suspect. I also suspect that Ipoker may turn a blind eye to this.
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Old 07-27-2011, 01:49 PM   #10
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Re: Huge Ipoker Bot Ring

Just re-reading the OP and i also have a long list of strategys i use to exploit these players.

Laughed when i saw the bet sizing thing as all the ones i have listed make the exact same bet sizes as each other at NL20 and take the same lines over and over. One of the funniest ones is when they 3bet you from the blinds and you flat. They give up on low boards with air, but will bet boards with a high card and then give up on the turn again with air but if they have at least top pair they shove the turn which is always an overbet because of their retarded sizings.

They also 3bet a high amount of the time when you raise to a normal size in the SB V BB so i just start making it 5x in this spot and they will only call with PP`s and then fold to a potsize flop bet if they dont flop a set.

Ive seen them 5bet shove hands like KQ/AJ+. I know what you are saying about them changing their patterns and its every single one. The one thing that worries me is that i have been experimenting against them is how they always seem to be turning up with premiums at the moment, nobody runs that well especially when i am holding blockers to big hands in my hand.

Theres some serious multi accounting going on here. The bot i mentioned is run off a profile so it is quite concievable that the profile could change and if it is one person running many bots then they can all play the same. Also with that bot they cant play more than 4 tables at a time so they could run others on Virtual machines with multiple accounts to get round this.
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Old 07-27-2011, 02:17 PM   #11
Cosmos5
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Re: Huge Ipoker Bot Ring

this site needs regulation!
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Old 07-27-2011, 02:29 PM   #12
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Re: Huge Ipoker Bot Ring

Quote:
Originally Posted by aardweasel View Post
No, you are fine. You should just be careful running .exe files from people/sites you don't trust.

Thanks for your reply
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Old 07-27-2011, 03:07 PM   #13
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Re: Huge Ipoker Bot Ring

Quote:
Originally Posted by aardweasel View Post
I could, but don't see what it will achieve just yet; also don't wish to make a mistake and blacklist a legit player by accident.
A+ Finally someone makes a bot thread understanding its really poor judgement to name players before you have complete evidence to back up this very serious allegation. Well played OP.
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Old 07-27-2011, 04:02 PM   #14
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Re: Huge Ipoker Bot Ring

I heard that 5thStreetHog is a bot.
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Old 07-27-2011, 04:33 PM   #15
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Re: Huge Ipoker Bot Ring

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A+ Finally someone makes a bot thread understanding its really poor judgement to name players before you have complete evidence to back up this very serious allegation. Well played OP.
Not really. SNs of bots have been identified on ipoker many times in the past and they still continue to play today. Search the forums.
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Old 07-27-2011, 05:15 PM   #16
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Re: Huge Ipoker Bot Ring

Have you seen the session times that some of these guys are putting in? We are talking 9 hours at a time 4 tabling NL20.
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Old 07-27-2011, 05:41 PM   #17
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Re: Huge Ipoker Bot Ring

There is tons of threads out there about iPoker. They do nothing about botting because it would mess with their rake. I'd stay away from iPoker especially in the micros.
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Old 07-27-2011, 05:54 PM   #18
aardweasel
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Re: Huge Ipoker Bot Ring

Quote:
Originally Posted by i<3fishes View Post
There is tons of threads out there about iPoker. They do nothing about botting because it would mess with their rake. I'd stay away from iPoker especially in the micros.
This.

I found one such thread here https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/28...on-etc-982423/

I haven't read it in detail, but the general consensus in this and other threads is that ipoker simply don't care. There are even claims that people have had their accounts frozen for complaining about bots, although I obviously take these with a pinch of salt.
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Old 07-31-2011, 06:53 AM   #19
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Re: Huge Ipoker Bot Ring

Quote:
Originally Posted by aardweasel View Post
This.

I found one such thread here https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/28...on-etc-982423/

I haven't read it in detail, but the general consensus in this and other threads is that ipoker simply don't care. There are even claims that people have had their accounts frozen for complaining about bots, although I obviously take these with a pinch of salt.

We CANNOT continue, month after month and year after year to allow this site to cheat us out of money and break the law like this.

It's really sad, there was a thread on here the other day about how there's barely any money to be made on iPoker and then we have this thread about how the site is riddled with bots. The two things are very obviously connected. The money these bots are making should be money that is available to genuine players to win.

We HAVE TO ACT. I don't know how to go about this, but I do know companies can't lie to and mislead customers and break the law. Full Tilt have been shut down recently, so surely the same sort of threat should be out there for iPoker. There has to be consequences for them allowing people to cheat on their site.

Everyone who plays there, please can we come up with something to sort this problem. Please present any evidence you have, or offer any suggestions as to who we can turn to to get this problem sorted.

iPoker are handing our money to cheats, day after day, we need to sort this problem right now.
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Old 07-31-2011, 07:16 AM   #20
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Re: Huge Ipoker Bot Ring

What does iPoker's Terms and Conditions say about bot use?
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Old 07-31-2011, 07:34 AM   #21
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Re: Huge Ipoker Bot Ring

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What does iPoker's Terms and Conditions say about bot use?
Do iPoker even have terms and conditions?
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Old 07-31-2011, 07:41 AM   #22
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Re: Huge Ipoker Bot Ring

Quote:
Originally Posted by aardweasel View Post
I could, but don't see what it will achieve just yet; also don't wish to make a mistake and blacklist a legit player by accident.
What it will achieve is letting other players start gathering data or avoiding these players if they so desire. Other players can turn their analytical skills towards players and clear them or not if they know where to look. It's pretty obvious from past history that ipoker isn't going to blacklist anyone.
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Old 07-31-2011, 08:42 AM   #23
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Re: Huge Ipoker Bot Ring

ipoker is full of bot or at least full of ppl sharing accounts

not to mention their ****ty software
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Old 07-31-2011, 05:30 PM   #24
MartL
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Re: Huge Ipoker Bot Ring

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Originally Posted by Punker View Post
What it will achieve is letting other players start gathering data or avoiding these players if they so desire. Other players can turn their analytical skills towards players and clear them or not if they know where to look. It's pretty obvious from past history that ipoker isn't going to blacklist anyone.
Not sure about FR but at 6max its almost an imposibility to avoid them as there is usually one playing on every table. I mailed William Hill asking for the terms and conditions but had no luck they just asked me to forawrd names that i suspected. Ive got about 40 on a list at the moment, its pretty ridiculous and they really have to know about it.
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Old 07-31-2011, 05:53 PM   #25
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Re: Huge Ipoker Bot Ring

Quote:
We CANNOT continue, month after month and year after year to allow this site to cheat us out of money and break the law like this.
I agree that you shouldn't continue to allow a site you think is cheating you to continue doing so.

So stop playing there. I don't see why you wouldn't.
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