The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

[5thStreetHog]

"I have something like AK and someone else has A9, guess what comes up on the flop? 678. But wait...the turn will be another Ace. It's all up to the river card now...my opponent has gun shot and out comes a 10 to complete the straight and beat my ACES YET AGAIN!"



I call BS that he had a gun shot or a gutshot.

[luckychancer]

Any site I don't clean up on is rigged. There's always a new non rigged site around the corner where the luck is better.

If you think the site is rigged find another site.

[gfire3245]

So none of you guys ever played and notice anything funny?

[Markusgc]

Originally Posted by gfire3245

So none of you guys ever played and notice anything funny?

no, but then again, I'm completely devoid of a sense of humor.

[NoLimitLeagues]

Originally Posted by gfire3245

So none of you guys ever played and notice anything funny?

noticing anything funny requires analyzing millions of hands.

[AceSpade11]

Originally Posted by ervinsantana

How many of us can relate to this guy?

He is RIGHT ON!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r89tSAxAu0c

TY.. I just pissed myself laughing...

"I'll be back to play again" LOOL

[Tappy Tibbons]

Every time I see on of these threads, I thank His Holiness The Dali Jeebus for giving me the ability to earn a living off all these rigged poker sites.

[gfire3245]

Does anyone expect to win everytime you play? I don't, because i know it not going to allow me to online.

[Markusgc]

Originally Posted by gfire3245

Does anyone expect to win everytime you play? I don't, because i know it not going to allow me to online.

Are you saying you win every time you play live or that you just expect to?

[questions]

Originally Posted by NoLimitLeagues

lol, you pretend to be an expert on everything, each site does it differently. surprised you didnt know this. and they arent truly random. thats impossible to do.

Shhhh! He's actually entertaining me, lol.

[PDA #1 poster]

Wait... you mean none of you figured out the algorithm of the online poker sites? I think I am a superuser. I can see 2 cards dealt in front of me.

[VBAces]

I certainly didn't read this entire thread - but I sure have heard about how these sites are rigged to set up huge pots. And I've never believed it. And now I have the anecdotal evidence that it isn't rigged. Which is just as valid as all the anecdotal evidence that it is.

Today I got pocket Aces 6 times - and pocket Kings 4 times. I won every time - but with one exception I got only the blinds - not a single caller of a preflop raise, and I made standard and even smaller raises. One time with Kings I got a caller - but even though an Ace flopped (of course, because it is rigged) he folded to my bet. The only way this could have happened is if they rigged it so I couldn't win much money, making me play with a bunch of squeeky tight players.

By the way, this is on UB - so maybe everyone I was playing against could see my cards.

[kevmanc]

I firmly believe that it's rigged, due to persistent odds mockery. Now don't get me wrong: I'm a weak player. I play either for pittance or play money for this very reason; I'm sure a rather large slice of you kinda know what you're doing and were I to go against you I would be toasted rather easily.

In my whole time playing on FT and PartyPoker I am up the grand total of $50; although I've never had to re-deposit, over a long spell of time that's a rather poultry return, I realise that.

However, I do know odds and in all-in situations (I'm not great at reading other peoples' hands) I know where I stand in terms of percentages. Today, having consistently taken awful beats in all-in situations (the lesson (among others more condescending to my ability) is not to commit to all-in so easily, but that's not the point), I thought I'd experiment in a play money tournament, one of the 250 ones, packed full of donkeys even worse than me.

My test was, after calling into the flop, to only ever bet all-in if I hit something 'big' (top pair or better), and to go all-in pre-flop with any pocket pairs 8 or higher.

Of the 12 times I went all-in at that point, I lost 10. I was odds favourite in every one of those 12.

I had pocket 8s twice and lost to overcard pairs (both offsuited AK hands). Not too outrageous to lose both of those I admit, but, still, it's against the odds.

I was dealt pocket Ks once and went all-in, actually hitting a third king on the turn but losing to a top straight draw on the river when an ace popped up.

Pocket Js also lost, to offsuited A2, with my opponent hitting his ace on the flop.

Those were all my pocket pair hands, none of which stood up in heads up. Hmmm. OK...

Calling into a flop with suited 67, I hit three sixes. All in with one caller, I lost to a backdoor flush; 'to be fair' the guy had hit an ace on the flop so the flush wasn't his only out but...

On the final table of one tournament (I had fully played, i.e. 'all-inned', one hand and folded pre-flop/turn on every other), I called an all-in with suited AK, with the donkey to my right being the one who bet the all-in. Everyone else folded. He flipped over unsuited K7, and I lost to a pair of 7s.

Finally, the one I played moments ago that had me chuckling with knowing disbelief, I had unsuited A6 and hit my ace on the flop, so went all-in. I received the inevitable solo donkey caller (following my donkey bet) who flips over his pocket jacks.

I had time to mutter "jack!" twice before the turn card arrived, and I wasn't surprised whatsoever to see... a jack. 9% chance of him beating me before the turn? In theory yes, but in practice on Full Tilt... I don't think 9% were accurate odds at all- I never had a prayer!

I realise that many of you will be good players who have been able to manoeuvre around the sort of scenario I have faced with ease- in minimising the demand for luck. But my experience through experimentation today leaves me in no doubt that for all my own donkeydom, it's rigged in favour of the true, bonafied donkey.

[gfire3245]

I am 100% saying its not rigged to make you win or lose. I am saying that it is not 100% truly random.

I don't expect to win whatsoever. Either online or live. But online does not allow you to win every time.

[Markusgc]

Originally Posted by gfire3245

I am 100% saying its not rigged to make you win or lose. I am saying that it is not 100% truly random.

I don't expect to win whatsoever. Either online or live. But online does not allow you to win every time.

I think that the sites offer random cards, but the outcome is always live. Online though, poker is 100% winning with my feeling and live is not expecting.

Random is rigged and nothing is live. But at least online you know you can lose sometimes too.

I think winifred put it best in this landmark post:

Originally Posted by Winifred

SHY TO FCUK WITH UR SHORT GUN? L0NGER 3" INSTANTLY antisemitic

oatmeal automate father colonial writhe.
cyclic deviant winery lithograph scapular. expedition finance physik?
wash implore carborundum myrtle. kinesthesis mug back. too return lunchtime?
lefty quartermaster paint carriage honda pliers? swirly stout tragic upstair mythology contest. bedbug cottonwood churchyard helicopter analeptic,
agreeable stillwater stereoscopy. osgood appropriate biconnected clarendon aries

winifred,

[Ice_W0lf]

Originally Posted by kevmanc

I firmly believe that it's rigged, due to persistent odds mockery. Now don't get me wrong: I'm a weak player. I play either for pittance or play money for this very reason; I'm sure a rather large slice of you kinda know what you're doing and were I to go against you I would be toasted rather easily.

In my whole time playing on FT and PartyPoker I am up the grand total of $50; although I've never had to re-deposit, over a long spell of time that's a rather poultry return, I realise that.

However, I do know odds and in all-in situations (I'm not great at reading other peoples' hands) I know where I stand in terms of percentages. Today, having consistently taken awful beats in all-in situations (the lesson (among others more condescending to my ability) is not to commit to all-in so easily, but that's not the point), I thought I'd experiment in a play money tournament, one of the 250 ones, packed full of donkeys even worse than me.

My test was, after calling into the flop, to only ever bet all-in if I hit something 'big' (top pair or better), and to go all-in pre-flop with any pocket pairs 8 or higher.

Of the 12 times I went all-in at that point, I lost 10. I was odds favourite in every one of those 12.

I had pocket 8s twice and lost to overcard pairs (both offsuited AK hands). Not too outrageous to lose both of those I admit, but, still, it's against the odds.

I was dealt pocket Ks once and went all-in, actually hitting a third king on the turn but losing to a top straight draw on the river when an ace popped up.

Pocket Js also lost, to offsuited A2, with my opponent hitting his ace on the flop.

Those were all my pocket pair hands, none of which stood up in heads up. Hmmm. OK...

Calling into a flop with suited 67, I hit three sixes. All in with one caller, I lost to a backdoor flush; 'to be fair' the guy had hit an ace on the flop so the flush wasn't his only out but...

On the final table of one tournament (I had fully played, i.e. 'all-inned', one hand and folded pre-flop/turn on every other), I called an all-in with suited AK, with the donkey to my right being the one who bet the all-in. Everyone else folded. He flipped over unsuited K7, and I lost to a pair of 7s.

Finally, the one I played moments ago that had me chuckling with knowing disbelief, I had unsuited A6 and hit my ace on the flop, so went all-in. I received the inevitable solo donkey caller (following my donkey bet) who flips over his pocket jacks.

I had time to mutter "jack!" twice before the turn card arrived, and I wasn't surprised whatsoever to see... a jack. 9% chance of him beating me before the turn? In theory yes, but in practice on Full Tilt... I don't think 9% were accurate odds at all- I never had a prayer!

I realise that many of you will be good players who have been able to manoeuvre around the sort of scenario I have faced with ease- in minimising the demand for luck. But my experience through experimentation today leaves me in no doubt that for all my own donkeydom, it's rigged in favour of the true, bonafied donkey.

I think that even the ppl that believe its rigged think this is rediculous

[KingOfFelt]

Originally Posted by kevmanc

I firmly believe that it's rigged, due to persistent odds mockery. Now don't get me wrong: I'm a weak player. I play either for pittance or play money for this very reason; I'm sure a rather large slice of you kinda know what you're doing and were I to go against you I would be toasted rather easily.

In my whole time playing on FT and PartyPoker I am up the grand total of $50; although I've never had to re-deposit, over a long spell of time that's a rather poultry return, I realise that.

However, I do know odds and in all-in situations (I'm not great at reading other peoples' hands) I know where I stand in terms of percentages. Today, having consistently taken awful beats in all-in situations (the lesson (among others more condescending to my ability) is not to commit to all-in so easily, but that's not the point), I thought I'd experiment in a play money tournament, one of the 250 ones, packed full of donkeys even worse than me.

My test was, after calling into the flop, to only ever bet all-in if I hit something 'big' (top pair or better), and to go all-in pre-flop with any pocket pairs 8 or higher.

Of the 12 times I went all-in at that point, I lost 10. I was odds favourite in every one of those 12.

I had pocket 8s twice and lost to overcard pairs (both offsuited AK hands). Not too outrageous to lose both of those I admit, but, still, it's against the odds.

I was dealt pocket Ks once and went all-in, actually hitting a third king on the turn but losing to a top straight draw on the river when an ace popped up.

Pocket Js also lost, to offsuited A2, with my opponent hitting his ace on the flop.

Those were all my pocket pair hands, none of which stood up in heads up. Hmmm. OK...

Calling into a flop with suited 67, I hit three sixes. All in with one caller, I lost to a backdoor flush; 'to be fair' the guy had hit an ace on the flop so the flush wasn't his only out but...

On the final table of one tournament (I had fully played, i.e. 'all-inned', one hand and folded pre-flop/turn on every other), I called an all-in with suited AK, with the donkey to my right being the one who bet the all-in. Everyone else folded. He flipped over unsuited K7, and I lost to a pair of 7s.

Finally, the one I played moments ago that had me chuckling with knowing disbelief, I had unsuited A6 and hit my ace on the flop, so went all-in. I received the inevitable solo donkey caller (following my donkey bet) who flips over his pocket jacks.

I had time to mutter "jack!" twice before the turn card arrived, and I wasn't surprised whatsoever to see... a jack. 9% chance of him beating me before the turn? In theory yes, but in practice on Full Tilt... I don't think 9% were accurate odds at all- I never had a prayer!

I realise that many of you will be good players who have been able to manoeuvre around the sort of scenario I have faced with ease- in minimising the demand for luck. But my experience through experimentation today leaves me in no doubt that for all my own donkeydom, it's rigged in favour of the true, bonafied donkey.

Yeah, they totally rig their play money games. It's a great business decision imo.

[allyasia]

do you have any tracking software?
selected memory does wonders eh.
i have days that i play, and thinking, i this is rigged
after the session.
the odds and status, does not look that bad...
you only remember hands you beat.

[kevmanc]

Originally Posted by Ice_W0lf

I think that even the ppl that believe its rigged think this is rediculous

'Rediculous' in what sense?

Originally Posted by KingOfFelt

Yeah, they totally rig their play money games. It's a great business decision imo.

Presumably it's the same software; bad business would be to bother writing different software for play when there's no profit to be had from it.

I did actually report rather one-way in terms of my fortune, which was poor post all-in bet/call. However, I also would've hit a hugely disproportionate number of absolutely belting hands had I called instead of folded, and action elsewhere enabled me to see what I would've had come the river.

[Bobo Fett]

Originally Posted by kevmanc

'Rediculous' in what sense?

Probably in the sense that you've decided that because you lost in 8 out of 10 situations in which you were a somewhat significant favourite that the site must be rigged. Ever heard of sample sizes?

[Sevenfold]

Originally Posted by Bobo Fett

Probably in the sense that you've decided that because you lost in 8 out of 10 situations in which you were a somewhat significant favourite that the site must be rigged. Ever heard of sample sizes?

The sample size is 3 oz, though I do not know whether this proves or disproves the rigged theory.

Milk Chocolate Sample Box (Large 3.0 oz Chocolate Bars)
2 Kick Ass Chocolate Bars, 2 Hazelnut Chocolate Bars, 2 Best Friends Chocolate Bars

Your Price: $18.00

[Markusgc]

Milk Chocolate Sample Box (Large 3.0 oz Chocolate Bars)
2 Kick Ass Chocolate Bars, 2 Hazelnut Chocolate Bars, 2 Best Friends Chocolate Bars

Your Price: $18.00

Originally Posted by Sevenfold

The sample size is 3 oz, though I do not know whether this proves or disproves the rigged theory.

worthless w/o pics obv

[ervinsantana]

I can't take the UNFUUCKINBELIEVABLE hands that this RIGGED site doles out.

I mean...I went all-in pre-flop with KK and some donk calls with J9. He pairs the 9 on the flop, but guess what happens on 4th and 5th street?

Yup....9 followed by another 9.

I make a full house with my KK and the three 9's on the board, while this donk pulls 4 of a kind with 9s.

I mean... CMON!!!! THREE....THREE....FREAKIN 9's on the board??? ARE YOU KIDDING ME????????? MY KK fails to hold up yet again, and my full house is beaten by QUADS AGAIN??????

Thats why it feels rigged....hands that should win don't....and even though they can lose and percentages say they are not 100% guaranteed to win, they do not win at the rate that is realistic. The underdog pulls out too many crap hands on FTP.

Visual evidence:

[IMG][img=http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/6310/copyofbsrz1.th.png][/IMG]

[questions]

Originally Posted by ervinsantana

I can't take the UNFUUCKINBELIEVABLE hands that this RIGGED site doles out.

I mean...I went all-in pre-flop with KK and some donk calls with J9. He pairs the 9 on the flop, but guess what happens on 4th and 5th street?

Yup....9 followed by another 9.

I make a full house with my KK and the three 9's on the board, while this donk pulls 4 of a kind with 9s.

I mean... CMON!!!! THREE....THREE....FREAKIN 9's on the board??? ARE YOU KIDDING ME????????? MY KK fails to hold up yet again, and my full house is beaten by QUADS AGAIN??????

Thats why it feels rigged....hands that should win don't....and even though they can lose and percentages say they are not 100% guaranteed to win, they do not win at the rate that is realistic. The underdog pulls out too many crap hands on FTP.

Visual evidence:

[IMG][img=http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/6310/copyofbsrz1.th.png][/IMG]

Actually, on Tilt, 9's are good, and I'm not kidding. For a long time my PT stats held pocket 9's as unbeatable - that is, at 15,000 hands or something, they had won 100% of the time they were played - more than aces or kings. That has changed as I've played more hands now, but it's worth remembering not to fold them ever.

[Transa]

YES FTP iS RIGGED