Come on guys manners, we are not 12 year old high-school kids that we got to flame each other over this topic.

Yeah but the problem is 90 % of it is going to the provider and it is increasing.
Rake is like 5-10 BB per 100 while less then 10 % of players reach that number.
How many people do you know that have a rate of 10-20 bb per 100 on micros (NL2-NL50). ?
Greed is drying out the the game.

A better place to start improving your game would be posting hands and trying to improve instead of just posting conspiracy nonsense about how people are cheating you to steal pennies from you. Dumb **** like this is what I'm talking about. No one's trying to distract from your incredibly generic and uninformed conspiracy about rampant cheaters taking nickels from the microstakes.

I too long for the old days when sites and casinos just ran poker games out of the goodness of their hearts and not for the sweet, sweet rake.

Sure, but nobody was arguing about the cost to play, they were arguing about the fairness of the game and supposed cheating as the only explanation for losing. The rake rules are up front and published. Choose to play or not.

Well, so far we have basically seen bots and collusion problems with online poker admitted to.

I wonder how long until the software/tech problems are admitted to (where players cards are known possibly by hacking of their PC/device, and site software is exploited to similar effect)?

Also, the existence of teams/groups? If there are honest teams/groups working together to try to win and improve by following all rules: why don't we know about it?

How can any of you claim that USA online poker is fair? Because your actions/typing/responses imply that is what you think.

My guess is that these responses are driven by winning online players (and/or cheaters) who are scratching and clawing to keep their meager winnings going, which are much smaller than they should be if they're beating online games currently.

i think youre over thinking all of this. all those risks you mentioned are risks that anyone playing in the US is willing to take. so why are you so stressed out about it? you wont change anything with your observations IMO - no matter how right or wrong you are

i feel like this reply should get bumped to the first page of this thread and the topic should be closed lol make it happen boba

If you're an honest online player in the USA who is following all the rules and winning: CONGRATS! That's great and I'm sure its not easy.

Its also kind of unfortunate that you should be making more imo (due to cheating, being forced to trust the sites and this situation more than what is appropriate and the ongoing? legislative situation).

We've been screwed for years as USA players. I don't see justification for fighting to keep this situation going. Great players who can afford to do so are spending time in other countries to play on pokerstars, etc. and/or playing on legalized and regulated sites from the handful of legalized and regulated regions within our country. Why?

I guarantee you that virtually everyone on this forum (in this thread at least) knows that collusion exists, and knows that bots exist. Many still choose to play, and if the table looks fishy, move on. A bot at a full table is unlikely to change your results much. Colluders aren't that hard to spot and sites are pretty diligent about booting them. But these are the risks of online poker.

Anyone whose computer is infected with spyware/trojan allowing a remote hacker to see their hole cards is not exercising good security and probably shouldn't be gambling online. And it also takes some sophisticated social engineering for the hacker to even exploit the trojan, as he has to also get seated with you. This just isn't a common scenario to lose sleep over.

There is no known case of any site's server software ever being hacked and exploited. That another mild risk you just have to live with.

That leaves the site itself cheating you, which is certainly possible but unlikely for lots of reasons. There are thousands of posts above discussing that so you can read it yourself.

whos fighting to keep anything going? all i see is people running a tweeting campaign to try to get Pokerstars back - not much energy needed to do that. and why are you saying its unfortunate people have to deal with this? WHAT IS YOUR STAKE IN OTHER PEOPLES DECISIONS lol. I dont understand why youre so stressed out and invested in something that is completely out of your hands

Poker has been like this for 8 years now - all the observations have been made - sites came and went - players came and went. IT IS WHAT IT IS. you try it and if you dont like it you move on, but for a few people they just hang around trying to 'educate' and bring 'awareness' to issues no one gives a crap about. IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE I TELL YOU! lol

if you want to worry about stuff thats out of your hands there are bigger issues out there. Let me list a few so you can check them out:

1. The US dollar is based on credit . Credit is not based on anything (gold,silver,etc- so its basically imaginary money) and has led to every country in the world being in massive 'debt' which will never be paid off and lead to a collapse of the global financial system the second people realize how little value the dollar really has. Right now the value anything has is what we place on it (or rather, what were told to place on it) - in effect everything is really worthless, its just a matter of enough people agreeing it is

2. China is funding Airports/Harbors/Train stations all over the world in their Silk and Road initiative. They are providing loans to the host country's for these projects KNOWING FULL WELL that when it comes time to get their money back , the host country will not be able to. This means that china will then claim the airports/rail/ and other ports as a means of payment. China is about to take over half the world without a single shot being fired lol. Thats some genius level sht!

3. Having a choice between 2 political partys and 10 brands of cereal is not freedom. So what is freedom really? Ponder that for a bit

Just those 3 topics are infinatly more important than any poker game. I recommend you focus your energy on those rather than this.

Gl bud

Your smiley reeks of smugness and that you think you have the authority to tell boba what to do (maybe you do?) and that you revel in that authority.

That all makes some sense, i wouldn't be surprised if true. I've had thoughts recently that I'm kind of acting like a kid getting upset about a very small (comparatively) issue.

Online poker has just been so irritating as I feel cheated for years now. Some of us have legitimately been cheated out of careers for 8 years or more, maybe not a lot of us but definitely some, by one circumstance another.

I pray to God the Father for world issues and even poker because I can't actually do much else with actions, in part due to lack of (more significant) poker success.

LOL. im sorry but this is your best post yet. Gives readers an insight into how ridiculous you are acting. You see schemes and conspiracy's all around you dont you? thats not a healthy way to live your life. But since youre here im going to have some fun with you - i want you to over analyze and have a panic attack after reading this next sentence :

Hey boba fet the mod, how is your day going bro you do a great job on here IMO

well next time just make a post of why you feel cheated, etc. and then let it be - stop trying to shove your logic in other peoples faces. This thread has millions of views and replys - the amount of energy put into this thread could power NYC for a week. and its all over poker? thats a sad joke and a reflection of the insane society we live in today. Stop perpetuating it

and dont be too hard on yourself. the second your brain starts thinking about this topic for more than a minute - SHUT IT OFF. use some self control. At the end of the day Max, were just tiny little creatures floating on a rock in space, and we have no idea why. That is some profound sht right there , humble yourself and dont take games like poker seriously. Dont be the 40 year old guy who threatened to kill the 13 year old boy over Fortnite last week. That is beyond pathetic and takes you down to a level beneath most animals

The proper thing to do, particularly given your whiny cynicism, is for you to send "thoughts and prayers." Perhaps you fail at poker because you do things in such a half-assed manner.

All the best.


P.S. Thoughts and prayers

P.P.S. Inspirational video for you

https://www.pokertube.com/video/jerr...ower-of-prayer

What kinds of things to I do in a half-assed manner? What do you recommend? I do care, at least some and have been doing pretty close to the best I can.

Do you think people want stuff like that to happen?

I have been doing this. Its just been frustrating to see the "symptoms" continue and those threads die basically right after I tell the readers that I don't have proof of cheating.

Its not about wants or needs. If you have a problem address it, dont flaunt it on a message board IMO

Seems like everything.


Find a second half-ass approach and put two of them together.

Also, if you are constantly worried about collusion then try to play heads up. At least then if you still think the two players are colluding you can yell at a mirror after.

I offer further thoughts and prayers.


All the best.

symptoms are everywhere all around you in every facet of society. stop focusing on this one. dont focus on any of them really - you can find trouble in everything if you look long enough

the poker scene is what it is. we cope and move on knowing that at some point on the State level, something will happen to make it legitimate again. There are people already working on it in california, topics like this wont make them work faster, and there will NEVER be some sort of groundswell to force them to make it a priority. why? because its poker. its a game.

edit- dont let someone who ends all his posts with a cynical line like 'all the best' ruin your day. ignore him and he will ignore you. if you cant deal with this stuff on a message board then some parts of the real world would chew you up and spit you out max (the cities lol)

Also, I actually have been kind of indirectly arguing with God over all this because He does allow this or anything that happens to happen. That is not an excuse for people to cheat others though. He does hold the world and the scissors though.

you're not arguing with god. your arguing with your own conscience. there is no need to do that when you can control it and direct it at your will

god doesnt exist so dont count on him. i think his existence is for the desperate and the rich, not the people in between. the rich thank him for all their blessings, the poor beg him for blessings. if youre doing OK in life you dont really need him do you lol

anyways to each his own. but you gotta figure yourself out and not put it in someone elses hands

Wow, and you called me cynical? You just casually dismissed the genuine faith billions of people have on this planet.

You were right when you told this guy that if he takes stuff said in threads like this seriously then he has some other issues to deal with, however people like him are pretty hard wired, as you can tell by his posts. Realistically, he should quit all forms of poker, and find a hobby that better suits his odd mix of needs.

All the best.

i dont mind offending people on religion tbh - arguing with someone in Scientology, Creationist or Mormonism as a Christian (i assume you are) would make you feel the exact same way i do when arguing with people like you about Christianity. Not worth my time

As for you - all you do is poke people and upset them all over this thread. your ultimate goal isnt even relevant, you haven't made any profound points worth the millions of views this thread has gotten lol

you have a habit of ending your threads by brushing off everyone who replys and making them seem like their view isnt relevant while your posts dominate this thread.

in your mind im sure you think you are getting something accomplished, but you come off as annoying and dismissive. overall i think we all know people like you dont exist in the real world, only behind computer screens. we know this because you would be taught a lesson in the real world, and the fact that you act like this behind a screen makes you seem like a coward on top of everything else.


edit - no one believes you give a crap about me 'offending' billions of people, the fact that you act like you would says more about you than me.

Let me be perfectly clear - nothing said in this thread matters at all. Literally nothing. Nothing gets accomplished in this thread. Literally nothing. That is why it is fun playing with genuine riggies, and even more fun messing with people who have a metal rod jammed up their ass like you, particularly when someone touches on some important topic of yours, in this case religion.

My relatively gentle dismissive posting to silly attention craving riggies (this thoughts and prayers guy basically begs for attention) is nothing compared to your casual dismissal of a key component of being human for many people. Do I "give a crap" about this? Not really, because you do not matter, and nothing said in this thread matters, however the fact you need to do that in a riggie thread, where nothing matters, shows how dedicated you are to your own personal cause, while lacking the awareness of the arena you pitch it in. Keep the faith.

All the best.

you have a ridiculous amount of posts about something that doesnt mean much to you. you can make it crystal clear as much as possible that you dont care, but the proof is in the pudding

and please dont feign concern about the billions of people i offended. ill take the blame for that myself and ill deal with it myself, i dont need your fake concern

i think you are a 'poser' , you are fake. and frankly, this will be my last reply to you.

All the best broseph